1 hour ago, Saltpeter said:

Fulgham, Reagor, Ward, and Hightower are fine for the next several years. Sure if a stud falls to them in the draft, pull the trigger. But their long-term needs at CB, S, and LB are borderline overwhelming.

Next year is a real good CB draft. Let’s go NFL legacies in the first and second.

2 hours ago, devpool said:

A couple people have this ridiculous expectation that every receiver spot needs to be filled with a big, strong, fast, sure handed guy with good route running. Their only complaints are that he isn't a threat or a weapon, because every receiver in the league is dangerous.

Also complaining about averages when we have a team with zero deep threat and a shaky O line, so we have to throw short passes that are quickly swallowed up because the defense doesn't get spread out at all.

Tl;dr it's all about unrealistic expectations. Ward is an Avant type, sure handed and dependable 4th WR who makes those 3rd down catches.

Yeah... except Jason Avant got 11 ypc on his career.   

 

As for the 'zero deep threat', that's false.  Eagles have found some deep targets, despite the shaky OL... even had multiple 40 plus yard passes on Thursday night.  

 

And its not complaining about Ward, its recognizing what he is... and what he isn't.  He shouldn't be a top 3 target on a good offense.  This isn't a good offense, though, so he's the 2nd best option.  

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not much better.   I was quoting Manu's stats, which might have been per target rather than per catch.   But, people around here were complaining about Zach Ertz getting 10 yards per catch just a year or two ago.   Now all of a sudden... 8 is good?   I don't know... seems odd to me.

Don't know that I'd read that far into it. Everyone's ypc is down this year and with our OL in the state it's in, can't say I'm surprised. Ward isn't a game breaker, but he's reliable, and given what we've endured at the position in the past few years, it's a quality that's sorely needed. Arguing about whether he's a WR3 or WR4 is kinda pointless at the moment. He's earned his roster spot, which is more than I can say for every other WR besides Fulgham and Reagor.

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Havent really seen his hands be cause of his drops tough. 

Didn’t watch blue turf games?

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

Didn’t watch blue turf games?

not all of them. you telling me he had a ton of Jordan Matthews-esque hand drops? That hes not fixable?

 

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not much better.   I was quoting Manu's stats, which might have been per target rather than per catch.   But, people around here were complaining about Zach Ertz getting 10 yards per catch just a year or two ago.   Now all of a sudden... 8 is good?   I don't know... seems odd to me.

Eight is based on the route as much as anything. Last year he was pretty close to Agholor in yards. I think that the G play has a lot to do,with that. 

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Don't know that I'd read that far into it. Everyone's ypc is down this year and with our OL in the state it's in, can't say I'm surprised. Ward isn't a game breaker, but he's reliable, and given what we've endured at the position in the past few years, it's a quality that's sorely needed. Arguing about whether he's a WR3 or WR4 is kinda pointless at the moment. He's earned his roster spot, which is more than I can saw for every other WR besides Fulgham and Reagor.

Well, I already acknowledged that in this situation, he's one of the best of what we've got... which is part of the problem.   If he's your 2nd best option, you've got huge troubles.  If he's 3rd, that's better but still not good enough.  For me, he's no higher than a 4.  He's a guy you can trust for a week or two, but shouldn't be looking to rely on to be a major contributor on a weekly basis.

Just now, BigEFly said:

Eight is based on the route as much as anything. Last year he was pretty close to Agholor in yards. I think that the G play has a lot to do,with that. 

Agholor last year sucked.

4 hours ago, BigEFly said:

He was at 11 last year.  With Goedert hurt and now Ertz and four OL out, there are going to be shorter throws to the slot.  People were floored when they saw how high the Eagles rated on pass blocking.  That is because the deep throws take time to develop and get Wentz killed.  Ward gets short throws, the X gets intermediate throws and the Z gets the long throws most of the time.  You really hated Jefferson in the draft so, especially with the high degree of 12 personnel the Eagles were playing, so who did you want to draft as a slot?  My recollection was it was K J Hamler. 196th WR by yards because available only three games catching 50% of his targets but yeah, he is averaging 13 yards a catch. Of course he has less than half as many catches as Ward has first downs.  Maybe I just value first downs and actually catching the ball more than I should.

I wanted Claypool to complement Reagor.  Hamler was 2nd choice.  
 

It’s so easy to judge rookies on other teams (Hamler), yet judging our own is off limits.  Let’s not compare Ward to a rookie.

 

And you value accurate stats less than you should, because he wasn't at 11 last year.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Don't know that I'd read that far into it. Everyone's ypc is down this year and with our OL in the state it's in, can't say I'm surprised. Ward isn't a game breaker, but he's reliable, and given what we've endured at the position in the past few years, it's a quality that's sorely needed. Arguing about whether he's a WR3 or WR4 is kinda pointless at the moment. He's earned his roster spot, which is more than I can say for every other WR besides Fulgham and Reagor.

Fulgham 15.5

Reagor 19.2

Hightower 18.4

DJax 11.9

JJAW 22.5

Burnett 6.3

12 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Next year is a real good CB draft. Let’s go NFL legacies in the first and second.

Need a new Coordinator first. 

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, I already acknowledged that in this situation, he's one of the best of what we've got... which is part of the problem.   If he's your 2nd best option, you've got huge troubles.  If he's 3rd, that's better but still not good enough.  For me, he's no higher than a 4.  He's a guy you can trust for a week or two, but shouldn't be looking to rely on to be a major contributor on a weekly basis.

Agholor last year sucked.

Ward can’t (or at least hasn’t shown the ability to) win downfield outside of coverage busts and perfect play calls vs specific coverages.

Fulgham has made big plays from the slot beating people downfield or by breaking a tackle for YAC. But for someone reason with Ward people blame the position he plays. His usage isn’t just a by-product of plying the slot. It’s also a by-product of his skill set. His low YPC is because he doesn’t have the speed or elusiveness to beat defenders after the catch or before it downfield. We have ample evidence of that.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, I already acknowledged that in this situation, he's one of the best of what we've got... which is part of the problem.   If he's your 2nd best option, you've got huge troubles.  If he's 3rd, that's better but still not good enough.  For me, he's no higher than a 4.  He's a guy you can trust for a week or two, but shouldn't be looking to rely on to be a major contributor on a weekly basis.

Agholor last year sucked.

I didn't realize there was anyone that thought otherwise. But with our current slew of issues, I could find a few better ways to spend resources than trying to upgrade our 3rd WR. To me, that's more of a luxury for a team that's not lacking a single LB that's worth a damn, another competent S, some OL depth, among a couple others.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... except Jason Avant got 11 ypc on his career.   

 

As for the 'zero deep threat', that's false.  Eagles have found some deep targets, despite the shaky OL... even had multiple 40 plus yard passes on Thursday night.  

 

And its not complaining about Ward, its recognizing what he is... and what he isn't.  He shouldn't be a top 3 target on a good offense.  This isn't a good offense, though, so he's the 2nd best option.  

He isn’t the top 3 target on this team.  He is tied for Goedert as fourth in normal plays.  The problem is that the top three are injured, the player the Eagles thought would be the back up for one of those positions has been supplanted by a kid we picked up two weeks before the end of camp and the back ups for the other two are injured.  So our tied for fourth slot WR is healthy catching balls and somehow blamed for the offense’s performance.  Our fifth rounder, who really should be platooning with our slot at some point has a forty five percent catch rate and is basically a deep threat decoy at this point. Meanwhile our scatback giant killer is being crucified because of bad G play too.  Face it folks, the middle is not there for us with Brandon and Ike out.  

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

not all of them. you telling me he had a ton of Jordan Matthews-esque hand drops? That hes not fixable?

 

I was a basket catcher as a kid.  Could track and catch punts just fine but not a very good receiver because I didn’t track well and I didn’t trust my hands as much because of the tracking as because of my ability to catch with my hands. Hightower  seems to have some tracking issues.  Not sure that can be cured with a Jugs machine.  Hope so.

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

He isn’t the top 3 target on this team.  He is tied for Goedert as fourth in normal plays.  The problem is that the top three are injured, the player the Eagles thought would be the back up for one of those positions has been supplanted by a kid we picked up two weeks before the end of camp and the back ups for the other two are injured.  So our tied for fourth slot WR is healthy catching balls and somehow blamed for the offense’s performance.  Our fifth rounder, who really should be platooning with our slot at some point has a forty five percent catch rate and is basically a deep threat decoy at this point. Meanwhile our scatback giant killer is being crucified because of bad G play too.  Face it folks, the middle is not there for us with Brandon and Ike out.  

This is an exaggeration. The reason Ward is a lightning rod is because we disagree strongly about the player. We all agree the guard play sucks. Not much to discuss there. But to blame the guard play for a slot receiver’s low YPC is excuse making. We had a good OL last year and Ward’s YPC stunk. Fulgham plays slot snaps and his YPC is a lot better than Ward’s in that alignment.

14 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Fulgham 15.5

Reagor 19.2

Hightower 18.4

DJax 11.9

JJAW 22.5

Burnett 6.3

The top 3 didn't play on the team last year, but they're also not used primarily as slot WRs, so if the argument is that the Y should have a higher ypc than the X or Z, than maybe I'm the confused one.

Also, the face you used those stats for JJAW and Burnett here is beyond hilarious. Not even sure what your point is there.

12 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

He isn’t the top 3 target on this team.  He is tied for Goedert as fourth in normal plays.  The problem is that the top three are injured, the player the Eagles thought would be the back up for one of those positions has been supplanted by a kid we picked up two weeks before the end of camp and the back ups for the other two are injured.  So our tied for fourth slot WR is healthy catching balls and somehow blamed for the offense’s performance.  Our fifth rounder, who really should be platooning with our slot at some point has a forty five percent catch rate and is basically a deep threat decoy at this point. Meanwhile our scatback giant killer is being crucified because of bad G play too.  Face it folks, the middle is not there for us with Brandon and Ike out.  

Nope.  No one has said that.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

The top 3 didn't play on the team last year, but they're also not used primarily as slot WRs, so if the argument is that the Y should have a higher ypc than the X or Z, than maybe I'm the confused one.

Also, the face you used those stats for JJAW and Burnett here is beyond hilarious. Not even sure what your point is there.

I listed every WR on the roster who caught a pass for comparison’s sake. Ward isn’t the only one who gets slot snaps. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

This is an exaggeration. The reason Ward is a lightning rod is because we disagree strongly about the player. We all agree the guard play sucks. Not much to discuss there. But to blame the guard play for a slot receiver’s low YPC is excuse making. We had a good OL last year and Ward’s YPC stunk. Fulgham plays slot snaps and his YPC is a lot better than Ward’s in that alignment.

Not really. If your QB has all of 2 secs to get rid of the ball, how deep would you allow for route development when drawing up plays for a game plan? You really don't think time to throw is impacted by the average depth of routes run by your slot WRs?

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

Not really. If your QB has all of 2 secs to get rid of the ball, how deep would you allow for route development when drawing up plays for a game plan? You really don't think time to throw is impacted by the average depth of routes run by your slot WRs?

He averaged 9 last year. What was his excuse then?

Just now, ManuManu said:

I listed every WR on the roster who caught a pass for comparison’s sake. Ward isn’t the only one who gets slot snaps. 

I never said he was the only one who got slot snaps. The word primarily does not mean exclusively.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

I never said he was the only one who got slot snaps. The word primarily does not mean exclusively.

And I guarantee Fulgham’s YPC in the slot is much higher than Ward’s. 

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... except Jason Avant got 11 ypc on his career.   

 

As for the 'zero deep threat', that's false.  Eagles have found some deep targets, despite the shaky OL... even had multiple 40 plus yard passes on Thursday night.  

 

And its not complaining about Ward, its recognizing what he is... and what he isn't.  He shouldn't be a top 3 target on a good offense.  This isn't a good offense, though, so he's the 2nd best option.  

Avant had 11 YPC on a team with prime DeSean and Jeremy maclin. We do not have a legitimate deep threat. No one is afraid of our receivers right now, even with fulgham playing well the past 3 games.

And it absolutely is complaining. No one here is saying he is an all pro, but you and a couple others literally crap on him at every opportunity. I really don't get it. But go off I'm done wasting my time with y'all, if he isn't a pro bowler or an all pro he sucks. Heard.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

He averaged 9 last year. What was his excuse then?

I don't really recall our OL being that much better then either. I just checked the year before that and the vaunted Golden Tate didn't fare much better. What's an average ypc for a slot WR? 10ypc or so? I'm honestly curious.

Ward’s yards per catch would fall to 7.3 if you take out his 29-yard TD where he was uncovered due to play design.