6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There are people in here who think he’s a proven, good #3 receiver. That’s why I pushback so hard. I don’t agree with that at all. Him as the #4, now we’re cooking. 

I think this is the lens through which the reasonable Ward fans may see things.  He's not an ideal #3, looks nice as a #4...and why bash Ward...bash the fact that we don't have 3 better WRs, not Ward.

If Ward were a pricey FA or a high draft pick, he'd be more of an annoyance.  As a udfa who would be a nice #4, the other guys are the problem.  

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Nah. You’re getting carried away. Turner wasn’t an NFL player. 

I do believe Deontay Burnett might be just as good as Ward though. 

What do we even know about Turner?  He had good hands and was small and slow.  If they kept at it with him, he might have been able to load up on some underneath catches too.

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Negligible difference in an offense uses the te and a top three wr

Not really. The #3 WR is expected to contribute to the offense every game, anywhere from 35-50 percent of the snaps. The #4, not so much. If the #3 WR was better, we wouldn’t have to force 12 personnel so much either. (I’m not necessarily blaming Ward there, because our starters are hurt, but he’s also not good enough when we’re fully healthy to deserve snaps over either Ertz or Goedert).

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think this is the lens through which the reasonable Ward fans may see things.  He's not an ideal #3, looks nice as a #4...and why bash Ward...bash the fact that we don't have 3 better WRs, not Ward.

If Ward were a pricey FA or a high draft pick, he'd be more of an annoyance.  As a udfa who would be a nice #4, the other guys are the problem.  

What do we even know about Turner?  He had good hands and was small and slow.

Not all small, slow WRs with good hands are equal. 

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There are people in here who think he’s a proven, good #3 receiver. That’s why I pushback so hard. I don’t agree with that at all. Him as the #4, now we’re cooking. 

Agreed.

20 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The sickle cell trait led to frequent injuries. He said it took him awhile to get a handle on it and to figure out how to keep his body healthy. 

they had to treat a cyst in his back in 2016 and it was determined to be a big root of the issues with his hammys. He still played in 2016 and put up 500 yards and played in 15 games. Down from 2015 for sure but they figured out the root of the issue and played better after the cyst was treated.  

His 2017 his production really dropped off. Sickle cell had a part of it, he also got hurt twice that season and basically missed 3 weeks then later in the season missed another 3. another Major reason why his 2017 was awful before he got hurt go look at what the Cardinals quarterback situation was all year. It was Palmer who was finished at that point and blane gabbert due to deterioration and their oline didn’t allow for down the field shots often enough. It’s why Larry Fitzgerald had a resurrection of his career was because they kept throwing it short to the slot receiver. 

Even so there were people on here that said sign him to a cheap contract that year as it was worth the risk if he panned out.  Furthermore the 2019 for agency class he showed he was as capable as desean when Flacco was the QB with the ravens. And you didn’t have to give up anything to get him except cap space. He got a a much more manageable contract than desean did in his extension. And at that point was as productive as desean and younger

We need to get past this 12 personnel crap.  The blessing in disguise...no, I take it back, not even in disguise...clear blessing with the TE injuries is that (even with bad WRs) the offense has actually opened up a bit and Wentz isn't forced into tunnel vision.  We actually use WRs along the sidelines and Wentz will target them.  We only have 1 pass catcher on the field at a time that can't outrun a LB.  

And this is with practice squad spare parts at WR...yet the offense is actually slightly better and more explosive than it was when we had both Ertz and Goedert.  Earth to Doug...learn from it.

But yes, your #3 WR will see a smaller share of snaps and targets when you overuse 12 personnel as Doug typically does.

Trade Ertz ASAP, roll with Goedert, and find 3 good WRs.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think this is the lens through which the reasonable Ward fans may see things.  He's not an ideal #3, looks nice as a #4...and why bash Ward...bash the fact that we don't have 3 better WRs, not Ward.

If Ward were a pricey FA or a high draft pick, he'd be more of an annoyance.  As a udfa who would be a nice #4, the other guys are the problem.  

What do we even know about Turner?  He had good hands and was small and slow.  If they kept at it with him, he might have been able to load up on some underneath catches too.

Ding, ding, ding, what do we have for him, Johnny?

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think this is the lens through which the reasonable Ward fans may see things.  He's not an ideal #3, looks nice as a #4...and why bash Ward...bash the fact that we don't have 3 better WRs, not Ward.

I don't think anyone was bashing Ward, only pushing back against anointing above his level.  For the record, I like Ward.  I like the story of how much he worked as a college QB transitioning to get to the level he has as a WR.  But I get frustrated watching him return punts.  There should be a better option on the roster.  Kickoff returner can be overlooked on an NFL roster now, because there's so many touchbacks, investing in it isn't really a big deal.  But, punt returners can make a major impact on games, flipping field position or even scoring.  And the field position piece is potentially sustainable.

 

Of course, I'd take Greg Ward on my team any day over Odell Beckham.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Ding, ding, ding, what do we have for him, Johnny?

By the way, Agholor’s aDot last year was 11.6 compared to 6.8 for Ward. I’d say that shows a significant usage difference for two predominantly slot WRs here. 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think anyone was bashing Ward, only pushing back against anointing above his level.  For the record, I like Ward.  I like the story of how much he worked as a college QB transitioning to get to the level he has as a WR.  But I get frustrated watching him return punts.  There should be a better option on the roster.  Kickoff returner can be overlooked on an NFL roster now, because there's so many touchbacks, investing in it isn't really a big deal.  But, punt returners can make a major impact on games, flipping field position or even scoring.  And the field position piece is potentially sustainable.

 

Of course, I'd take Greg Ward on my team any day over Odell Beckham.

I realize that the KOR has been devalued these days, but we had Corey no legs Clement returning kicks last week.  That makes Greg Ward on PR look like Deangelo Hall in his prime.

They obviously aren't really trying on returns.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think anyone was bashing Ward, only pushing back against anointing above his level.  For the record, I like Ward.  I like the story of how much he worked as a college QB transitioning to get to the level he has as a WR.  But I get frustrated watching him return punts.  There should be a better option on the roster.  Kickoff returner can be overlooked on an NFL roster now, because there's so many touchbacks, investing in it isn't really a big deal.  But, punt returners can make a major impact on games, flipping field position or even scoring.  And the field position piece is potentially sustainable.

 

Of course, I'd take Greg Ward on my team any day over Odell Beckham.

Right. It comes off as hate from me because I see obvious limitations and point out why it’s problematic for him to be a WR3. As a WR4, he’s quality depth. So I don’t hate him. I hate him as our WR3. I believe he got promoted past his skill level. Others see him as qualified for that position. 

31 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I’m pretty much all out on Clement at this point.  Two carries for 9 yards and 1 catch for 12 yards.  More importantly, he didn’t look all that good in pass pro.

I also thought that he appeared to be running with concrete in his shoes on that kickoff return of his in the fourth quarter. He was slow to begin with, which is why he went undrafted, and seems to have gotten slower.

He's not the same guy anymore. Thanks for 2017 though. You really came through when it mattered most.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I realize that the KOR has been devalued these days, but we had Corey no legs Clement returning kicks last week.  That makes Greg Ward on PR look like Deangelo Hall in his prime.

They obviously aren't really trying on returns.

We wanted Reagor on PR. That’s a no from me. 

KR, I don’t blame them for that for putting no effort there. I would like to see Huntley handle those duties when active, although his lone return was comical. 

On 10/24/2020 at 7:56 PM, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think anyone was bashing Ward, only pushing back against anointing above his level.  For the record, I like Ward.  I like the story of how much he worked as a college QB transitioning to get to the level he has as a WR.  But I get frustrated watching him return punts.  There should be a better option on the roster.  Kickoff returner can be overlooked on an NFL roster now, because there's so many touchbacks, investing in it isn't really a big deal.  But, punt returners can make a major impact on games, flipping field position or even scoring.  And the field position piece is potentially sustainable.

 

Of course, I'd take Greg Ward on my team any day over Odell Beckham.

The punt returns are just ridiculous. It’s an area that we still haven’t fixed and I feel like we’ve needed to fix it since Darren Sproles ACL injury. If I remember correctly ward had a fumble in that game on punt returns and he was lucky one trickled out of bounds. He’s not a good punt returner. If you want him just to catch the ball and fair catch it he can do that. However he gives you no big returns. It’s why doug and the Eagles put the desean back there in hopes of getting a big return. Ward wasn’t going to do it for you. 

It feels like the last big punt return we’ve had with barner against the Cardinals back in 2017. I really hope they’re able to address this in the draft or free agency this year. Because I do not want to use Jalen Reagor as a returner after seeing what happened with desean. 

He had three sacks against Minnesota. Never heard of him, but that’s intriguing as hell. 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

We wanted Reagor on PR. That’s a no from me. 

KR, I don’t blame them for that for putting no effort there. I would like to see Huntley handle those duties when active, although his lone return was comical. 

I said from the beginning of the year...if we are grooming Reagor to be a #1 WR, then he's got enough to worry about.  He was very clearly uncomfortable on punt returns.  Strike the responsibility from his mind.

I don't necessarily blame them for 0 effort on KOR, just noting that's clearly what they are doing.

Shockingly ward is actually 15th in yards per punt return. Still not great 

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Shockingly ward is actually 15th in yards per punt return. Still not great 

 

At least he averages more yards per catch. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Shockingly ward is actually 15th in yards per punt return. Still not great 

 

Reno Mahe led the NFL in this stat once.  Mahe was debated relentlessly as a lousy returner.  Then that grenade got thrown into the debate one year.

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

At least he averages more yards per catch. 

He has 11 fair catches which leads the league as well. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He has 11 fair catches which leads the league as well. 

I initially wanted Reagor returning punts because he’s the only player capable of making an impact in that area, but with him having two injuries already this year it’s best to keep him off ST duty.

Quez Watkins is the only other new player with PR experience in college.  Very tough to make him active on game days just for that limited role, though.

I don't care how good Hightower looks the remainder of the season.  The Eagles would be silly to not add at least 1 WR in the upcoming draft.  The WR talent is just insane.  

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I initially wanted Reagor returning punts because he’s the only player capable of making an impact in that area, but with him having two injuries already this year it’s best to keep him off ST duty.

Quez Watkins is the only other new player with PR experience in college.  Very tough to make him active on game days just for that limited role, though.

I feel like when reagor comes back that the eagles should just inactive JJAW. Go with 5 WRs on gameday of reagor, fulgham, Ward, hightower and Watkins. They had 5 WRs active vs. the giants so I’m guessing that’s their plan going forward. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I feel like when reagor comes back that the eagles should just inactive JJAW. Go with 5 WRs on gameday of reagor, fulgham, Ward, hightower and Watkins. They had 5 WRs active vs. the giants so I’m guessing that’s their plan going forward. 

You’re forgetting Iron Man?

Oh, man, going to the slant short of the sticks looks so much worse with this view. Fulgham just cooked him.