3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I'm sorry.  But if he's more accurate on the move, then I would say that's an indictment on his mechanics in the pocket and his inability to improve.  I am all for a few designed rollouts to move the pocket and keep the defense guessing.  And yes, he excels at that.  I wouldn't consider that "scrambling".  But his base is too wide, his arm is too far away from his body, and he sits too low, hence the ball sailing.  I have been beating that horse for well over a year now.  His accuracy out of the pocket is better than in the pocket, yes.  But that isn't a good thing.  

his mechanics do suck. is the coaching not there, or is wentz just not listening ? 

13 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Our defense is just a defense.  There is nothing special about it.  They don't make impact plays.  They will force a punt which is great don't get me wrong but they aren't taking over games, getting in quarterbacks heads, creating turnovers at a high rate.  We talk about JAG players.  Our defense is JAD.  Half of that is because of the talent, the other half is the scheme that Jim Schwartz plays.

 

I agree...BUT...HUGE BUT....the bell curve across NFL defenses is very, very tight.  Defensive football has been neutered.  I don't like it, but that's what the NFL has become.  The best defenses in the NFL aren't going to be getting key stops against the best offenses.  

It feels illogical, as defense and offense are two sides of the same equation on a football field.  But I'd have more, much more, than 50% of the team's resources on the offensive side of the ball.

5 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

So what's worse?

Wentz is injured - meaning he is injured yet again and it is crystal clear that only a fool will count on him to be their QB for 16 games.

Wentz is not injured - meaning he sucks and has continued to not improve in the areas he has been struggling with since his rookie year.

Wentz being injured is worse.  

Wentz doesn't suck.  He sucked Sunday.  But even with his flaws, in general, he doesn't suck.

If Wentz is injured and either misses more than 2 games this year or has a horrible year due to injury...that's catastrophic to his future in Philly.  He won't be the QB of the future here if that's the case and they would phase Hurts in, sooner rather than later.

We want this to be a reversible, teaching moment, not an injury.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

I agree...BUT...HUGE BUT....the bell curve across NFL defenses is very, very tight.  Defensive football has been neutered.  I don't like it, but that's what the NFL has become.  The best defenses in the NFL aren't going to be getting key stops against the best offenses.  

It feels illogical, as defense and offense are two sides of the same equation on a football field.  But I'd have more, much more, than 50% of the team's resources on the offensive side of the ball.

Yea, it sucks this is how it is now.  I love watching a dominant defense.  Nothing better than a team just feeding on the other offense.  

We have 55.5% of our 2020 cap going towards the defense.  40% is going to Cox, Hargrave, Jackson, BG and Barnett.  That means only 15% of the cap is going towards your ENTIRE starting secondary and linebackers.  Again, poor roster management if you ask me.  Especially the ROI on that 40%.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Wentz doesn't suck.  He sucked Sunday.  But even with his flaws, in general, he doesn't suck.

No Wentz doesn't suck that's absolutely right. But is he going to be a top QB that we all hoped and thought he would be? I'm not so sure now. I know it's one game but I'm not just going on one game. I'm going on everything since 2017 and that ACL injury. 

Pittsburgh and the Giants was a terribly "RUSTY" game as well. Heck neither of those teams could run a simple screen until the 2nd quarter.

Won't hear any "National" calls that there's something wrong with Ben's "mechanics". Too old to care. 

All hype. Everything's fine. 

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Spotrac really is an eye opening site to visit.  When you dig in to breakdowns you see how poorly this roster is constructed.

You have 11% of your cap going to Jeffrey and DJack.  Jeffrey, we don't know when he will play and at what level and DJack is on a pitch count so he doesn't get hurt.  We got nothing out of them in week 1.

Almost 11% of the cap is going to Cox and that goes up to almost 12% next year.  What are they getting from him?  4 sacks, double teams and the occasional bull rush?  

Carson eats up 17% next year.   

30% of the 2021 salary cap for 2 guys. 

Carson needs to prove he is elite this year.  You pay for Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees.  Carson isn't on that level but he's getting paid like it.  I've been a Wentz supporter his entire time here but this is year 5.  Time to put on the big boy pants and put this team on your shoulders.

I'm not ready to give up on Wentz yet but the more you look at the NFL you either win with elite QB play or you win with an average QB with a great team built around him.  I still don't like the Hurts pick but I bet in year 3 he could give you what Nick Foles did in 2017 at a fraction of the cost of Wentz. 

Carson's number isn't the problem when you look at the other teams in the division.  I mean to people forget what Carson did last season with much less talent? Sure he had a bad game on Sunday but he's not the issue.  His number isn't an elite number. I mean Dak is getting more than him and it's likely that Dallas will pay more for Dak or another QB than the Eagles will pay for Carson.  

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Carson's number isn't the problem when you look at the other teams in the division

The question I think the Eagles need to ask themselves is... Can they win a SB with Carson. I think they can but I think they need to surround him with a lot of talent to do that. So then the question becomes can they give Wentz that talent in the next say 5 years? 

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Carson's number isn't the problem when you look at the other teams in the division.  I mean to people forget what Carson did last season with much less talent? Sure he had a bad game on Sunday but he's not the issue.  His number isn't an elite number. I mean Dak is getting more than him and it's likely that Dallas will pay more for Dak or another QB than the Eagles will pay for Carson.  

I agree, you have to pay for a great QB in today's NFL.  However, if Carson doesn't improve/gets injured again this year then we have an issue.  

I'm coming off really negative towards Wentz this morning and that's not my intent.  I think he has everything you want in a franchise quarterback and want him here for the next 10 years.  Just really down on him after the performance last weekend.  

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The question I think the Eagles need to ask themselves is... Can they win a SB with Carson. I think they can but I think they need to surround him with a lot of talent to do that. So then the question becomes can they give Wentz that talent in the next say 5 years? 

I honestly think what Wentz needs isn't elite talent but elite coaching and coordinating.  He did not have that on Sunday.  Arguably the bigger problem since the Super Bowl has been the stale offense.  Sure Wentz has struggled but the Redskins were jumping routes like they knew the play call.  They read screens like the Pats did when they had Reid's offensive signals in the Super Bowl. Wentz needs decent talent sure.  Every team needs talent to win.  The bigger issue right now is that Doug was extremely predictable as the game progressed and did nothing to change the game plan despite the lack of success. 

21 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

So what's worse?

Wentz is injured - meaning he is injured yet again and it is crystal clear that only a fool will count on him to be their QB for 16 games.

Wentz is not injured - meaning he sucks and has continued to not improve in the areas he has been struggling with since his rookie year.

He sucks?

jesus he was getting hit literally all game and had no running game.

people are so fantastical about QBs anymore.  I don’t care who it is, you name him, if you smack around a QB all game where he has no faith in his OL, you don’t run the ball, and you continue calling downfield shot plays, he’s going to get rattled.

its one bad game where nothing went his way, this is ridiculous

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I agree, you have to pay for a great QB in today's NFL.  However, if Carson doesn't improve/gets injured again this year then we have an issue.  

I'm coming off really negative towards Wentz this morning and that's not my intent.  I think he has everything you want in a franchise quarterback and want him here for the next 10 years.  Just really down on him after the performance last weekend.  

Well he had a frustrating game.  

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Is he healthy or are they going to put a limping Lane in because this Oline sucks

45 minutes ago, greend said:

You know there may be some merit to the injury thing with Wentz. He seemingly hasn't been the same since his 2017 injury. Would be interested to know if he's still as fast as he was then. Possibly he is trying to overcome his lack of mobility by becoming a better pocket passer. Idk just spit balling here

This was only last year

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I agree, kind of tried to make this point last night.  We have had to call on a number of JAG 3rd and 4th DT's the past few seasons and have been just fine.  Our best DE, Graham, is known best for his run stopping ability....in a passing league.  The Eagles will get sacks throughout the year but they have nothing to fear from a pass rush standpoint. 

We have 19.71% of our cap this year going towards Cox, Jackson, Hargrave, BG, Barnett and Curry.  14% strictly to the top 3 DTs.  With that much money dedicated to the d-line they better be dominant.  Jackson stood out a few times, Cox turns in on for a play or 2 but nothing like you want from $100 million.  The ROI on D-line is just not there.

Eagles were top 3 against the run just last year

12 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I honestly think what Wentz needs isn't elite talent but elite coaching and coordinating.  He did not have that on Sunday.  Arguably the bigger problem since the Super Bowl has been the stale offense.  Sure Wentz has struggled but the Redskins were jumping routes like they knew the play call.  They read screens like the Pats did when they had Reid's offensive signals in the Super Bowl. Wentz needs decent talent sure.  Every team needs talent to win.  The bigger issue right now is that Doug was extremely predictable as the game progressed and did nothing to change the game plan despite the lack of success. 

Agreed. I feel like it's all too common to lay blame at the feet of the players and give the coaching staff a pass. In other sports, that makes more sense due to the fact that there's far less strategy involved and a coach's impact is going to be more marginal, so I guess some of that mentality is bound to bleed over into football. But it just doesn't make sense to do that here with all the moving parts involved, and so many of them are designed and put in motion by the guys in headsets standing on the sidelines.

Wentz had no place to step up and throw. Give him a pocket and we win by 30.  Just one man's opinion of course. 

Surround Wentz with a competent offensive line, and magically he will look like an MVP again

its not hard, it’s not complicated

People think that because Wilson has had success with no Oline that every QB should

Hawks have failed Wilson for years and he's been carrying that team on his back for awhile now

QBs need an Oline

What you saw Sunday was a Rusty, out of sync offense trying to install lots of WR timing patterns that take an extra second to run as compared to what they ran mostly last year. 

The OL breakdown was doubly damaging because the game plan was to double move the corners a ton. We never had enough time to throw that route. 

Would have completely changed the game. We could've done it a whole lot more times than just the one we missed to Reagor. 

It's worth mentioning that throwing deep is something we all asked for last season.

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

It's worth mentioning that throwing deep is something we all asked for last season.

Deep routes with a bad O line probably isn't a recipe for success

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

It's worth mentioning that throwing deep is something we all asked for last season.

And something we should continue to ask for.

However, a lot of Wentz' deep attempts were just eyes closed and chuck prayers.  That's a deep passing game, but it's not the deep passing game we want.

15 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

He sucks?

jesus he was getting hit literally all game and had no running game.

people are so fantastical about QBs anymore.  I don’t care who it is, you name him, if you smack around a QB all game where he has no faith in his OL, you don’t run the ball, and you continue calling downfield shot plays, he’s going to get rattled.

its one bad game where nothing went his way, this is ridiculous

agreed. he had no time and yet the HC kept calling long developing plays. he shouldve threw a ball at pederson's head in the locker-room. we were screaming at the tv to go back to a short passing attack and run the ball. 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

There is no worse way to build a team than Seattle. Without Wilson, it all falls apart.

Seriously. What a poor example of being "conventional.”

They absolutely should not "go backwards" and try to dumb down the offense. 

Keep installing what they're doing because if they can get it working, it's what this team needs to get to the next level.

This team's going nowhere with the 86 Giants Mark Bavaro Offense. 

Please work in some easier stuff this week.