4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The first red flag in all of this was Doug coming out with a ghost written autobiography the same offseason after winning one Super Bowl.

That was the first crack in the foundation.

Howie, for all his terrible moves and incompetence (and there’s a lot of both with him), at least never put out vibes of being totally and utterly self indulgent and satisfied after the title.

Doug led his team the following year to the final 8. He cashed in after an improbable Super Bowl run. Can't blame him.

1 minute ago, AzBirdGang said:

You can't trade the players away that need to be removed Howie. We incur huge dead cap hits. Some of them are absurd. Howie dug himself a hole. 

I'm for any trade that can help fix the future cap. Wish we could move Alshon. 

 

Eh there’s some guys you could move on contract that aren’t huge dead money hits that teams around the league would want. You might get some dead money this year but open up more space next year. For instance (just hypothetical) if you trade malik jackson. It’s 3.6 mil dead money but save 1 million this year. But in 2021 doing so then you save 10 mil against the cap. 

i don’t think it would’ve been surprising if the eagles traded desean if he stayed healthy. I think GB wants a better deep threat then MVS. It’s why they have tried for fuller. I think they would’ve settled for desean for the price the eagles would’ve been willing to trade him away for with reagor coming back. 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Some of you people need to stop drawing lines in the sand.  It’s not Carson or the Coaches fault.  It’s not Doug or Howie’s fault.  It’s not Injuries or Carson’s fault.   It’s all the above!!!   If you can’t see that Carson has regressed then you’re blind.  If you want to blame it all on him and your distain for him (for whatever reasons....Bible loving Hunter ......mmmm) then you’re blind.  Be a little more transparent with your opinions.  This isn’t a thing where you have to pick a side.  Be mature and see things for what they are.  A soft,  not very talented, poorly coached team with a talented QB that refuses to take what is there and short circuits at times.   The guy cares.  A lot.  I respect the hell out of him for that.   We just need someone to channel that energy.   Doug obviously isn’t the one to do it.  

This is an interesting discussion point. The question is which parts do you change? 

The injury certainly play a role in all of this so it's hard to gauge what if any significant changes need to be made. 

If it's you what do you do? 

I'd have to see how the rest of the season plays out before I committed to any change.

1Right now I'd keep Carson and Doug, 2 take a hard look at the strength and conditioning staff.

3 Howie I would probably give one more season to but might restructure draft process.

4 I'd explore DC options mostly because Schwartz contract is up 

5 I'd really like to see how how scouting graded out. 

Probably not enough change but that's where I am at 

2 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

That last part is why I'm not on the "tank for a better draft pick" train. For all of Wentz's errors and regressions this year, the guy kills himself every week to try to get this team wins. You can tell he cares and puts his health in jeopardy every week just to try to win. If he was out there looking lethargic and half-assing it, yeah I'd say blow the entire thing up and start over. But I want to see him in a playoff game and I want to see him win a playoff game. This team isn't winning a Super Bowl this year, but that doesn't mean getting Wentz to the playoffs and getting him a chance to win a playoff game isn't important. And if it's a close game in the 4th quarter, I still trust him to get it done regardless of how terrible he looks in the previous three quarters. 

That, and I just don't trust this FO with their draft track record to even select a good player if they were to get a top 10 pick. People act like that's a guarantee. There's a better chance that they're taking a Marcus Smith than a Lane Johnson if they pick in the top 10. 

I hope not.  Lane was a top 5 pick.  Smith was 20+.  

And no...I am not in favor of tanking for higher picks.

Just now, eagle45 said:

The first red flag in all of this was Doug coming out with a ghost written autobiography the same offseason after winning one Super Bowl.

That was the first crack in the foundation.

There are some really weird things going on with Doug and how he is treated by the organization. 

My biggest complaint with him is situational play calling. 

Other places you see a complaint about identity. I think a lot of that is coming from Lurie and Howie’s influence over the coaching staff. It’s clear Doug has little say on defense. Maybe he ya veto rights, but that is a Howie/Schwartz deal IMO. On offense, Doug was forced to fire three coaches he said would be back (Lewis, Groh and Walch). Some people understandably applauded that as a Doug blind spot, but I saw it more as Doug being neutered. I liked the Scangarello hire, but how has his influence actually helped? Our under center stuff is abysmal. That’s not all on the scheme as the OL has been a revolving door. 

Does Doug even like the staff he put together? Does he like the organization of it? Can the pieces fit, or does he need an offseason to meld it together?

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There are some really weird things going on with Doug and how he is treated by the organization. 

My biggest complaint with him is situational play calling. 

Other places you see a complaint about identity. I think a lot of that is coming from Lurie and Howie’s influence over the coaching staff. It’s clear Doug has little say on defense. Maybe he ya veto rights, but that is a Howie/Schwartz deal IMO. On offense, Doug was forced to fire three coaches he said would be back (Lewis, Groh and Walch). Some people understandably applauded that as a Doug blind spot, but I saw it more as Doug being neutered. I liked the Scangarello hire, but how has his influence actually helped? Our under center stuff is abysmal. That’s not all on the scheme as the OL has been a revolving door. 

Does Doug even like the staff he put together? Does he like the organization of it? Can the pieces fit, or does he need an offseason to meld it together?

I’ve felt this way for a while but i do not think 1 of the 3 of Carson, Doug and howie will be back after 2021 (could possibly be 2 of the 3).I frankly think it’s going to be doug. I think this because of what you pointed out in the organization but i could also see him just being worn down and tired of how the organization treats him. 

I dont think the offense being bad is necessarily Carson or Doug's fault.  Both have their positives.  But I just dont feel they're a good match.  

Doug would do better with a different QB and Carson would be better with a different HC.

2 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I dont think the offense being bad is necessarily Carson or Doug's fault.  Both have their positives.  But I just dont feel they're a good match.  

Doug would do better with a different QB and Carson would be better with a different HC.

Be interesting if that is the case who the front office and owner moves forward with.  

11 minutes ago, RLC said:

Doug led his team the following year to the final 8. He cashed in after an improbable Super Bowl run. Can't blame him.

Like you said, he cashed in.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Like you said, he cashed in.

But why was that a red flag?

2 minutes ago, phil77 said:

Be interesting if that is the case who the front office and owner moves forward with.  

My guess would be Doug because the front office has already shown they’re willing to push things on him and he can be a pushover in that regard. I think they would move Carson because they drafted Jalen hurts and then use doug if hurts fails as the scapegoat. That said i still see Doug as the guy most likely gone at the end of 2021 but i think it’s on his own accord 

26 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Well if it were up to doug he wouldn’t have fired anyone last offseason. 

So you think it was Howie that brought in the numerous OCs?

22 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Some of you people need to stop drawing lines in the sand.  It’s not Carson or the Coaches fault.  It’s not Doug or Howie’s fault.  It’s not Injuries or Carson’s fault.   It’s all the above!!!   If you can’t see that Carson has regressed then you’re blind.  If you want to blame it all on him and your distain for him (for whatever reasons....Bible loving Hunter ......mmmm) then you’re blind.  Be a little more transparent with your opinions.  This isn’t a thing where you have to pick a side.  Be mature and see things for what they are.  A soft,  not very talented, poorly coached team with a talented QB that refuses to take what is there and short circuits at times.   The guy cares.  A lot.  I respect the hell out of him for that.   We just need someone to channel that energy.   Doug obviously isn’t the one to do it.  

Does that mean you're on the team of firing Doug?

5 minutes ago, phil77 said:

Be interesting if that is the case who the front office and owner moves forward with.  

Wentz.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

But why was that a red flag?

A head coach writing an autobiography after one SB is a red flag.  A player debuting a rap album after one big season is a red flag.  
 

He has every right to do it and I’m forever grateful for the SB, but how does that not reek of a "we’re done here” satisfaction?  

7 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I dont think the offense being bad is necessarily Carson or Doug's fault.  Both have their positives.  But I just dont feel they're a good match.  

Doug would do better with a different QB and Carson would be better with a different HC.

Wentz is going anywhere because of that contract.

https://www.nfl.com/news/doug-pederson-roseman-sign-extensions-with-eagles-0ap3000000945109

This says Doug and Howie are signed through 2022 but Lurie could just take the loss and get someone else

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So you think it was Howie that brought in the numerous OCs?

Does that mean you're on the team of firing Doug?

I think Doug didn’t wanna move on from the coaches he had. I think howie and lurie gave him a list of guys the organization thought would fit well with him and give him some fresh ideas after making him fire the coaches he wanted to keep. He helped decide on the ones he liked from the suggestions of the front office. 

If it was up to doug we would still have the same OC as last year and coaches back that we had previously. 

I just finished my anti-Doug tangent, but siding with a stubborn embattled QB over the coach is a gamble you lose on just about every time.

You kill 2 coaches when you do that: the one you initially fire and then the next one you bring in who has to deal with the now entrenched and unfixable bad habits of the empowered QB.

 

So dirt cheap this year, dirt cheap next year, and then a RFA

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

So dirt cheap this year, dirt cheap next year, and then a RFA

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Wentz is going anywhere because of that contract.

https://www.nfl.com/news/doug-pederson-roseman-sign-extensions-with-eagles-0ap3000000945109

This says Doug and Howie are signed through 2022 but Lurie could just take the loss and get someone else

 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I just finished my anti-Doug tangent, but siding with a stubborn embattled QB over the coach is a gamble you lose on just about every time.

You kill 2 coaches when you do that: the one you initially fire and then the next one you bring in who has to deal with the now entrenched and unfixable bad habits of the empowered QB.

 

If they do replace Doug, it MUST be a HC that has a proven track record with QBs.  Priority #1 has to be getting the most out of Carson.

Not saying him specifically but maybe someone like Jim Harbaugh.  

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

AH crap... Who forgot to close the blinds?    We don't want our business out there for everyone to see.

Sorry friend, but we can't help but peek into your business, it's too close to home!

I find the dump Carson/Wentz/Howie stuff to be stupefying.

But that's just me. Perhaps I am the stupid one.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If I were the owner....I would get a good football man to replace Howie.  Have that person run the whole show and stay out of all football decisions.  But that would be contingent on one edict.  That new GM will tell Doug to hire a real OC and hand over the play calling responsibilities.  I like Doug.  I think he is a good leader and good rah rah guy.  I truly believe that.  I think the players like him.  That's important.  But the offense and Carson has regressed and that's on Doug.  It's also on Howie and Lurie for letting it happen.  Doug is a good HC.  He's not a good OC.  If he refuses....he's gone.  Plain and Simple.  

Well said. Since you’ve come back you’ve been a ray of enlightenment! Lol

3 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

 

If they do replace Doug, it MUST be a HC that has a proven track record with QBs.  Priority #1 has to be getting the most out of Carson.

Not saying him specifically but maybe someone like Jim Harbaugh.  

I can’t see howie having a coach like Harbaugh in here. See it as a clash in personalities and would lead to trouble. 

I think Jeffrey Lurie would go offensive mind and young coach. Try to be like Kliff Kingsberry or Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan. That is my personal feeling on how the Eagles would go for their next HC

40 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Some of you people need to stop drawing lines in the sand.  It’s not Carson or the Coaches fault.  It’s not Doug or Howie’s fault.  It’s not Injuries or Carson’s fault.   It’s all the above!!!   If you can’t see that Carson has regressed then you’re blind.  If you want to blame it all on him and your distain for him (for whatever reasons....Bible loving Hunter ......mmmm) then you’re blind.  Be a little more transparent with your opinions.  This isn’t a thing where you have to pick a side.  Be mature and see things for what they are.  A soft,  not very talented, poorly coached team with a talented QB that refuses to take what is there and short circuits at times.   The guy cares.  A lot.  I respect the hell out of him for that.   We just need someone to channel that energy.   Doug obviously isn’t the one to do it.  

Very well said. In Kelce's speech "it's the whole damn team" lol

As I said in the Wentz thread he deserves a ton of criticism for what he can control and he needs to be better no doubt but Doug needs a lot of criticism too for not putting the team in the best position to succeed. 

Oh and let's not forget Howies share of this entire mess either!