1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

That’s false. Every single defender has to read keys, flow with the OL, etc. They aren’t ignoring all of that and assuming we’re passing. 

Hey, don't bring up actual stats and facts in here pal! Emotion rules the day!

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

No one honors our play action if we are pass, pass, pass.

Reid did the same thing with mcnabb, run the ball 12 times pass 50 with 30 of those passes being play action.

Reid used to say the play action got mcnabb into his drop better. Maybe mcnabb couldn't do a simple 3 5 7 step drop.

In shotgun the drop is different and part of the run action is RPO but seems sometimes it's just a useless action that fools no one when a team only runs 17 times.

I miss offense where the qb lines up under center, shotgun every play is a trend I hope goes the way of the run and shoot.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That’s false. Every single defender has to read keys, flow with the OL, etc. They aren’t ignoring all of that and assuming we’re passing. 

Hasn't this debate (at least statistically) been put to rest?

I’m not going back and subjecting myself to that game again, so I hope someone goes back and finds out if the RBs or line was more responsible for the run game sucking.

if it’s the line, I don’t know how much of a difference Sanders will make. He obviously will make some, but I actually thought he was better as a pass receiver last season than a runner for most of the season. He finally broke out later in the year as a runner, but through midway in the season he was very boom or bust carrying the ball.

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Statistically running the ball has no impact on the effectiveness of play action.  

Yep, this comes up every season, and if there is an impact, it's marginal.

48 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

 

Odell anyone?

Nope

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That’s false. Every single defender has to read keys, flow with the OL, etc. They aren’t ignoring all of that and assuming we’re passing. 

Yes and if an O has established the threat to run those defenders tend to react and bite harder.

When one runs the ball 5 times and passes 20 times the defenders aren't going to react as strongly to the threat of run.

1 hour ago, greend said:

Lol if you think Manu pulls punches on Wentz

No. Not lol. 

Lulz.

Just now, Utebird said:

Yes and if an O has established the threat to run those defenders tend to react and bite harder.

When one runs the ball 5 times and passes 29 times the defenders aren't going to react as strongly to the threat of run.

Do you have evidence of that because statistically there's no evidence of defenders reacting more.  

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

I’m not going back and subjecting myself to that game again, so I hope someone goes back and finds out if the RBs or line was more responsible for the run game sucking.

if it’s the line, I don’t know how much of a difference Sanders will make. He obviously will make some, but I actually thought he was better as a pass receiver last season than a runner for most of the season. He finally broke out later in the year as a runner, but through midway in the season he was very boom or bust carrying the ball.

Herbig was getting pushed back every play driscoll not much better even kelce got owned a few times as did peters in the run game. Bout the only guy I saw in the run game getting any push was seumalo. 

Tough to run when the guy blocking is going backwards.

3 minutes ago, greend said:

Nope

To take JJaW off the field?  Sure

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Do you have evidence of that because statistically there's no evidence of defenders reacting more.  

Do you have evidence they don't? 

9 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

To be fair, he said "tenure" and you singled out last year. It would be better to evaluate how we rank in those categories in prior years as well.

Rank	3Q	2H
2016	8	12
2017	2	2
2018	6	7
2019	5	10

 

<Mic drop>

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yes and if an O has established the threat to run those defenders tend to react and bite harder.

When one runs the ball 5 times and passes 20 times the defenders aren't going to react as strongly to the threat of run.

Wrong. 

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Hasn't this debate (at least statistically) been put to rest?

Time to define "mobile" quarterback again?

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

and even if it wasn't Carson's fault he would still say that. Because for as much as moron fans that don't know their arses from a 10 yard line like to say that Carson isn't a leader, he is exactly that. Leaders don't throw others under the bus. When he and the new receivers get on the same page this year I think it's going to be very special. And no I don't think he's ever going to be perfect.

Just now, Utebird said:

Do you have evidence they don't? 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing 

Putting this all together, I cannot find any support for the success of play-action passing being related in any way to a team's rushing statistics, whether measured by frequency or effectiveness.

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Wrong. 

How? Care to explain? 

4 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

To take JJaW off the field?  Sure

Well that's way simpler than signing beckham. "Hey JJAW go sit on the freaking bench"

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

If Play action pass didnt work no one would use it. 

Lulz

42 minutes ago, Utebird said:

That response from doug on why not move the pocket is possibly the stupidest answer I've heard. It's basically I'm a coach and your a reporter and I know best so shut up.

Carson was either hurt which limited his ability or the coaches are morons because there were zero reasons to only roll him out once the whole game especially with wash line.

Just mind numbingly stupid stubborn football by doug and co.

I put that loss on o coaches they failed the players😠

Sounded like I imagine the debates will go between our two that are running for President honestly.

8 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yes and if an O has established the threat to run those defenders tend to react and bite harder.

When one runs the ball 5 times and passes 20 times the defenders aren't going to react as strongly to the threat of run.

With guys like Ernie Sims, yes. 

But you’re talking in total extremes. We aren’t passing 20 times to 5 runs except when training big. 

Where you see the biggest difference is with teams playing single high or two high safety, whether they’re in nickel or base. That will tell you more about honoring the run game.

Teams will almost always honor play fakes except those silly half-arsed fakes McNabb would do on 3rd and 20.  

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

If Play action pass didnt work no one would use it. 

It works!!!!!!

But the premise that you need to establish a running game for it to be successful is not true.

 

Can someone create a Blog Encyclopedia, where we can store settled arguments for easy reference?

27 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Rank	3Q	2H
2016	8	12
2017	2	2
2018	6	7
2019	5	10

 

<Mic drop>

Right.  Wasn't that what everyone was complaining about over the last several years?  How they would come out flat but "turn it on" in the 2nd half?   How they "needed to play 4Q of football" etc etc

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Don’t expect Hargrave back this week.

I expect Lane, Sanders, and Barnett back.   

He will be reported out for the season in a few weeks.