19 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

I know i'm behind the times but Herbig didn't play because he injured his finger?

Can anyone imagine Chuck Bednarik not playing because he injured his finger?

I can't find the article now but from what I understand the issue affected his entire hand. It sounded more severe than just a finger injury.

btw not saying it was a good excuse or justified, just that it might have been more than a simple finger issue.

36 minutes ago, greend said:

How about Wentz somewhere in between?

id be ok with that. I want to see what happens when the oline gains some stability. Along with the young wrs progressing.

Part of me also looks at the game plans and wonders, WTF are we doing,  surprisingly ran the ball well yesterday and yet avoided it at times. Oline struggling? no QB roll outs?  

but im gonna wait to see how wentz plays behind a decent oline with some continuity before i make a change there. Because i have seen him be good before when the oline isnt changing 2-3 players every game.

35 minutes ago, greend said:

I admire your enthusiasm, but I don't think so. 

i can look at wentz resume and it tells me different. Its not like he never played well. He played well at end of last year throwing to new practice squad wrs. 

The oline played much better at end of last season than at almost any point this year. 

7 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

id be ok with that. I want to see what happens when the oline gains some stability. Along with the young wrs progressing.

Part of me also looks at the game plans and wonders, WTF are we doing,  surprisingly ran the ball well yesterday and yet avoided it at times. Oline struggling? no QB roll outs?  

but im gonna wait to see how wentz plays behind a decent oline with some continuity before i make a change there. Because i have seen him be good before when the oline isnt changing 2-3 players every game.

I'm not ready to make a change either but he has to show something. I wouldn't make a change this year actually. I have been one of his biggest supporters and he's not the only issue. But he's one of the bigger ones.

39 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Yeah this play drove me crazy.  It clearly worked and wentz held the ball forever to the CB was there to make the play. 

And people then aren't impressed by reagor. That was an opportunity for him,  blown by wentz.

wint argue that, he was def playing too tentative yesterday. 

I stated that myself. 

I can understand the why he might be playing tebtatively. the reasons behind that. I would like him to have the opportunity to succeed, esp aince we have ao much invested in him and we have seen him play much better.

This really is no different than Foles a few years back, and it makes me laugh, I had faith in Foles back then when most wanted him gone. You can win with Foles and you can win with wentz.

You cant win with a decimated oline changing lineups every stinking game, while playing a bunch of rookies at wr.

 

Now i do wonder about the coaching wentz is getting. Cause it isnt helping.  He did throw the ball away a few times yesterday, that was a plus.

Just now, greend said:

I'm not ready to make a change either but he has to show something. I wouldn't make a change this year actually. I have been one of his biggest supporters and he's not the only issue. But he's one of the bigger ones.

my assessment is he lacks trust in his wrs and oline, and i wonder about the coaching he is getting, knowing that.

to me this is all fixable, with getting some stability at oline, if we can get even halfway healthy.

 

7 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

i can look at wentz resume and it tells me different. Its not like he never played well. He played well at end of last year throwing to new practice squad wrs. 

The oline played much better at end of last season than at almost any point this year. 

He has to play well consistently, not for 6 games here or two there. Seems like this is the second season in a row he got a slow start and he's not making much progress at getting better. 

Just now, greend said:

He has to play well consistently, not for 6 games here or two there. Seems like this is the second season in a row he got a slow start and he's not making much progress at getting better. 

agreed, and not coincidentally, this is second year in a row where our starting wrs are out/injured, and the oline has had injury issues as well.

its a team game.

1 minute ago, Ipiggles said:

my assessment is he lacks trust in his wrs and oline, and i wonder about the coaching he is getting, knowing that.

to me this is all fixable, with getting some stability at oline, if we can get even halfway healthy.

 

Some bad play is because of this. But certainly not all of it. I'm sorry but I'm really starting to lose faith in Doug and Carson. 

1 hour ago, devpool said:

Thankfully I'm unable to watch any non-primetime games the rest of the season due to time difference and work hours, but seeing this makes me wonder how much of it really is coaching and how much are the players failing at execution.

 

Don't get me wrong, coaching has not been good by any means in terms of situational playcalling, player usage, and game flow. But the way wentz is playing I would wager there are more failed plays due to terrible execution than it seems. Obviously execution has nothing to do with screens to ward or not getting reagor the ball in space, but I wonder how many timing plays like this are run and to us looks like terrible design but is being poorly executed.

Not only does the DB have time to recover with the pump fake, but that extra split second affected the accuracy also. If he throws on time, it’s between the numbers. The split second hesitation put the ball more outside since Reagor was running inside. 

Just now, Ipiggles said:

agreed, and not coincidentally, this is second year in a row where our starting wrs are out/injured, and the oline has had injury issues as well.

its a team game.

As I said he's not all of the problem but regardless when the time comes to make a play he has to throw it where it can be caught and if the receiver drops it that's on them. 

Oh no Wentz was late on one throw?  That probably cost us the game right there

Heres a thought: Wentz is tentative not because he forgot how to play football, but because we have some of the worst offensive coaching in the entire league.

Coaching that rotates OL every single game, randomly takes productive players off the field because theyre scared of veteran players, randomly inserts an unproductive QB into the game to justify a draft pick, refuses to call simple plays that work in favor of calling a game like a meth head.  

Im done with these coaches, theyre very bad.  Bottom 5 coaching staff in the league and the only reasons its not obvious is because the NFCE has been a nightmare and we've had poor injury luck

Worse and worse since 2017, how bad can we get before its enough?

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Oh no Wentz was late on one throw?  That probably cost us the game right there

Heres a thought: Wentz is tentative not because he forgot how to play football, but because we have some of the worst offensive coaching in the entire league.

Coaching that rotates OL every single game, randomly takes productive players off the field because theyre scared of veteran players, randomly inserts an unproductive QB into the game to justify a draft pick, refuses to call simple plays that work in favor of calling a game like a meth head.  

Im done with these coaches, theyre very bad.  Bottom 5 coaching staff in the league and the only reasons its not obvious is because the NFCE has been a nightmare and we've had poor injury luck

Worse and worse since 2017, how bad can we get before its enough?

I wouldn't argue against stupid coaching either. 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

It's amazing that Doug still gets a pass on here. 

He was out coached by a bunch of rookie coaches and Jason Garrett yesterday and yet we're still pointing/talking about Wentz. 

Wentz, the same guy that this board BEGGED to play structured, non-hero ball football. We got structured Wentz yesterday and the structured system SUCKS. 

 

This is the inconvenient truth

And everyone in the organization probably knows Doug is in over his head

 

 

Quick, someone name the last time Doug outcoached another staff.  Ill wait....

Week 1:  Ron Rivera comes in between cancer treatments and embarrasses the coaching staff

Week 2: McVay and the Rams de-pant the Eagles, it was never even close

Week 3: a rookie QB and bad coaching staff outdo Doug and Schwartz

Week 4:. We eke one out against the 49ers 3rd/4th string

Weeks 5 & 6:. Once good Pitt/Bal teams lose interest, the Eagles come back only to fall short again.  

Week 7: The Giants drop a pass and we get a miracle win, deserved to lose

Week 8: Any QB not named DiNucci beats the Eagles, we still look like crap

Week 9:. Coming out of a bye, the Eagles are again thoroughly outcoached and outschemed by Joe Judge's staff

 

Should I go back to 2019?  

4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

This is the inconvenient truth

And everyone in the organization probably knows Doug is in over his head

 

 

Quick, someone name the last time Doug outcoached another staff.  Ill wait....

Super Bowl that's the last one I remember.

My honest opinion is that without a turnaround Doug gets fired at the end of this year.

It's easy to rag on Doug, but he has constantly had this thousand yard stare for over a year when public facing.  Whoever called it out earlier in the offseason in the NFL had it right; he looks tired, overworked and for me, lacks a vision of what he wants the O to be. He's HC today cause he's there, not because he has a vision or a plan - Lurie forced it on him, as he did player personnel on Chip.

A turnaround is very simple to complete, especially if there a sense of change and a focus that a new coaching team would bring. Yes, there are Vets in place, but next year is the real cap killer - longer term is more mixed.  For anyone to suggest Carson is irredeemably broken is wrong as there are sparks of the player we know that pop out. He is lacking coaching and a trust in the system.  A good coach would have him playing with a massive chip on shoulder.

Plenty of coaches on other teams would look at the likes of Wentz, Sanders, Ertz, Goedert, Reagor and think yep, I can make that work.  It just needs a schematic change to unleash it.

And frankly, the personnel side have learned a bit, but I do think Lurie's boy at GM is a problem as Lurie is more involved.  Can Howie say no?  Fans on other teams would think the Eagles are mad for clearing house, but it just feels the right thing to do as we are just repeating the same mistakes YoY

 

A few more things.  We had a short discussion last night about field position and how it never seems to be good.

Out of their first 5 drives they started at the 25, 9, 6, 11, 16 yard lines.  They aren't even starting at the old automatic 20 yard line.  They then had 2 more drives that began at their own 5 and 17.

They had 10 drives, 6 of them were from inside their own 20.  3 of them were inside their own 10!!!  Every punt they received was inside the 20.  Something needs to change here.  The only time they get the ball outside the 25 is on a kickoff.

 

Regarding Wentz.  He was hit 13 times, sacked 3.  That's not great but I don't remember him being under enormous pressure yet he still only passed the ball for 200 yards with no TD's.  I'm losing all faith in him being the franchise quarterback.  DiNucci and Jones have outplayed Carson in consecutive games.  Alex Smith is the best QB in the conference and they had to put his leg back together.  

-Did we see one screen pass outside of the first drive on the 4th down to Reagor?

-Did we go deep once?  I've been tough on Hightower but the guy can stretch a defense.

-Every pass to Goedert seemed like he had 3 guys around him.

-I didn't notice Reagor's routes that much but did they try anything else to get him going?

-Miles Sanders was having a great game.  Just keep feeding him.

-How has Dick Rod become our most consistent receiver?

-Fletch/Malik/Hargrave....you don't deserve those contracts.

-Please, no more Hurts gadget plays.  How many times this season has he been in the shogun and Kelce has a bad snap?  Wasted plays, wasted draft pick.

 

It's time for big changes.  This is unacceptable.  Again, it's the whole thing from the drafting, the FA signings, the coaching and progression/regression of players and continuing injuries. 

The draft picks are irrelevant.  The FA signings are busts.  The veterans are getting worse and the young guys aren't getting better.  The one young guy who was getting better by playing has been forced to sit because he can now somehow improve by watching the game.

This team is infuriating. 

 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

From your lips to Lurie's ears.

Nothing would make me more happy than a top 5ish pick, a new coaching staff and rolling into 2021 healthy. 

60$ mil over the cap in 2021. 

The FO have stopped being cut throat on older players or those past their peak, and it will hit it's peak this year and next as the can kicking will come home to roost. 

26 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

 

Coaching that rotates OL every single game,

 

randomly takes productive players off the field because theyre scared of veteran players,

 

randomly inserts an unproductive QB into the game to justify a draft pick,

 

refuses to call simple plays that work 

 

I think the Oline issue affects everything from Game planning to Wentz's phsyche - but they are dealing with the worst rash of injuries I have ever seen- Part of this is relying on oft injured players (Brooks- than JP) which is a front office issue. 

Taking productive players off the field for veterans is the #1 thing that drives me insane. 

the Hurts Gimmick is #2 at driving me nuts. Just stop the madness already.  Anytime Hurts hits the field it's like a 30% chance of being an ok play, a 5% chance it will be a good play, and 70% chance it nets nothing or worse.

The last one just baffles me. Your oline is struggling, but you call "0" QB roll outs. The one thing you were doing well was running the ball, so you make Wentz throw it 40 times. 

2 hours ago, Penn7980 said:

It was a poorly played game.  Wentz was a big part of it.  He was missing many of his receivers.  TE Rodgers was the reliable one and Wentz was looking for him when he was in a bad situation.

Amazing to see there were trouble on 3 snaps.  Kelce is the vet and worked with Wentz for thousands of snaps.  Incredible! 

Doug did not call a good game.  Early in the season, the team said the same coaching staff was an advantage over other NFCE teams who had new coaches.  As it turned out, this coaching staff did not have much of an advantage.  In fact, no OC and a bunch of offensive coordinators and advisors confuse the game planning and Doug lost the focus on play calling.

Hurts in the game has not produced much.  As this point, if Hurts has to go in to play QB, not sure he is able to handle the job.  One idea is that Doug likes to go for 2-pt conversion after TD, the most in the league.  They could designate Hurts as the QB for that. Design plays and has him practiced those plays until they are automatic.

 

 

You are a little low on your estimate there.  There were way many more snaps that were low and needed to be adjusted to.

2 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

anyone notice that wentz did not turn the ball over? 

we got the cautious, tentative wentz yesterday.

which means he took less chances, lacked trust in his wrs/ oline to make plays.

and unfortunately he had a few crucial drops when he did pull the trigger.

 

 

i like the gunslinger Wentz better, just let it fly. sure it means he will have a few ints, but he will also give his guys some chances to make plays,  yesterday, he didnt do that.

 

 

Gunslinger Wentz, in every year up to this one, didn't have that many INTs.   So, give me that guy.  Tentative, unsure Wentz offers nothing to this team and they might as well play Sudfeld.  

 

I also noticed that he didn't keep a single Read Option play yesterday.  Maybe they weren't there to keep, but I think that him keeping a few of those keeps him aggressive.   And I'd rather that than bland milk-toast (yes, I know the correct spelling, but I like mine better... because dipping your toast in milk makes it soggy and unappetizing, kind of like what we saw from the Eagles' offense yesterday).

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You are a little low on your estimate there.  There were way many more snaps that were low and needed to be adjusted to.

There were 3 in a row on one series. One of those led to Wentz high throwing over Goedert down the seam. But I know its Wentz's fault he didn't expect the ball at his ankles, and was under immediate pressure.