Haven’t been a big clement fan since he walked off the SB field.  Looked lost since then and I wanted us to keep Smallwood instead, I stand by that

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Agreed, he failed to adjust schematically as well. But if you take yourself back to March and objectively look at our OL depth heading into the offseason, you couldn't have been confident about what you saw, right?

At the time I was OK with Pryor as the backup LG/RG. I didn’t like our backup tackle. We did however draft two tackles and later re-signed Peters. At that point, I thought the depth was fine. 

Losing Dillard for the year had a lot of ripple effects. 

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Shame they can't apply the same to the DL too. 

I'm with you though. If Stoutland is such a great coach then we should expect to see positive results from the guys he's been given.

What exactly has he been given that haven't shown positive results??

2013 - Lane Johnson - 1st round, arguably best RT in the league.

2014 - no OL drafted

2015 - no OL drafted

2016 - Seumalo -3rd round, average to above average G. Vaitai - 5th round. Quality 6th man, cashed in FA.

2017 - no OL drafted

2018 - Pryor - 6th round, backup, could be argued a miss. Mailata - 7th round, complete lottery you can't say is a miss.

2019 - Dillard - 1st round, Unknown.

2020 - Driscoll, 4th round. Unknown, promising start in a season with no OTA's and modified TC. Wanogho - 6th round. Unknown. 

The rest are UDFA guys like Herbig, Opeta etc etc. 

Look at the guys he's inherited. 

Evan Mathis - journeymen, became all pro in 2013, pro bowler in 2013/2014

Kelce - Only All pro's 2017/2018/2019. Only pro-bowls 2014, 2016, 2019

Peters - is Peters. Not much to debate with him. 

Warmack - sucked

Wisniewski - average. 

So because he couldn't coach up an inherited bust in Warmack and a 6th round pick, he sucks now? Your expectations are completely unrealistic. 

 

Just now, Mike31mt said:

Sorry new number, who dis??

 

when Brooks went down, we didn’t have to bring back JP to play guard.  JP is a tackle and has been since converting from TE

As soon as JP walked through the door he should have been a backup LT and they should have developed a guard to play for Brooks.  Clearly Pryor was some sort of lie, I don’t really know what the hell their plans were

the whole situation reeks of last-minute scrambling.  What would have happened if JP stayed at guard anyway??

I think they took a close look at Pryor throughout the offseason and even perhaps in limited action last year, and they just didn't really like what they saw. As for how JP would've fared at RG, I think much better than Herbig or Pryor. But the issue is, throwing Mailata or Driscoll at LT would've been an even larger drop-off in play, so it made sense to shuffle JP back. He's a vet though, so I don't think shuffling him around was as big of a deal as it was for someone like Dillard. I also don't fault him for holding the FO ransom to get some extra money for it. He's capitalizing on the opportunity, and while it sucks for the team, it was still prudent compared to trying to sign another LT off the streets.

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Haven’t been a big clement fan since he walked off the SB field.  Looked lost since then and I wanted us to keep Smallwood instead, I stand by that

So the second he walked off the field at the Super Bowl you were just like "ok this guy sucks now”? 

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I'd flip them, and say Clement is 2nd and Scott 3rd, but otherwise I agree with the larger point that they are suitable as depth players and have justified their roster spots. That being said, I really would've liked to have seen us bring in Fournette.

While I think he is vastly overrated, Fournette can be useful if he’s OK being strictly a backup. I don’t think we were a fit there. 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

What exactly has he been given that haven't shown positive results??

2013 - Lane Johnson - 1st round, arguably best RT in the league.

2014 - no OL drafted

2015 - no OL drafted

2016 - Seumalo -3rd round, average to above average G. Vaitai - 5th round. Quality 6th man, cashed in FA.

2017 - no OL drafted

2018 - Pryor - 6th round, backup, could be argued a miss. Mailata - 7th round, complete lottery you can't say is a miss.

2019 - Dillard - 1st round, Unknown.

2020 - Driscoll, 4th round. Unknown, promising start in a season with no OTA's and modified TC. Wanogho - 6th round. Unknown. 

The rest are UDFA guys like Herbig, Opeta etc etc. 

Look at the guys he's inherited. 

Evan Mathis - journeymen, became all pro in 2013, pro bowler in 2013/2014

Kelce - Only All pro's 2017/2018/2019. Only pro-bowls 2014, 2016, 2019

Peters - is Peters. Not much to debate with him. 

Warmack - sucked

Wisniewski - average. 

So because he couldn't coach up an inherited bust in Warmack and a 6th round pick, he sucks now? Your expectations are completely unrealistic. 

 

Turned Brooks into a Hall of Fame level guard. 

12 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

Look at some of the other LTs we let go

King Dunlap started for 4 or 5 years for the Chargers. Villeneuva is STILL the Steelers LT. JP was in his prime then but we let them walk and got NOTHING

Villanueva was let go because Chip wanted him to play DT and never considered switching him. Dunlap would have been nice to keep under Stoutland but was a Mudd dud and got washed away with the regime change. 

25 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

That's fair but I think ESP made a good point after the Washington loss. Yeah I know ESP! He said that the amount of injuries the team suffers probably isn't that much different to a lot of other teams. The issue is the depth just isn't there so injuries are so much more impactful on this team. 

Half of the starting DL, starting RB, three fifths of starting OL. Lost other starting DE and key back up, back up (and starting for that game) RT, back up CB and ST ace.  What other team, besides the 49ers, who also lost, is ESP talking about?  Maybe Pittsburgh but they started the game healthier. 

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

I think they took a close look at Pryor throughout the offseason and even perhaps in limited action last year, and they just didn't really like what they saw. As for how JP would've fared at RG, I think much better than Herbig or Pryor. But the issue is, throwing Mailata or Driscoll at LT would've been an even larger drop-off in play, so it made sense to shuffle JP back. He's a vet though, so I don't think shuffling him around was as big of a deal as it was for someone like Dillard. I also don't fault him for holding the FO ransom to get some extra money for it. He's capitalizing on the opportunity, and while it sucks for the team, it was still prudent compared to trying to sign another LT off the streets.

I don’t fault JP at all, I’m glad they paid him

the Pryor/Mailata thing doesn’t add up to me.  They kept Pryor on the roster only to banish him, and they even threw him out as a starter at LT which appears to have been some sort of ruse now.  
And you can’t keep Mailata for multiple seasons as the "next in line” and then never actually insert him when there’s a glaring hole

 

My take has always been "next man up”...if the guard goes down, put in his backup and keep everything else the same.  I understand we had two injuries but they got too cute with cross training and negotiating and it blew up in their faces 

Other than Dante Sarnecchia, and maybe Bill Callahan, not sure who exactly you think you can get as an upgrade over Stoutland.

5 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So the second he walked off the field at the Super Bowl you were just like "ok this guy sucks now”? 

No I was kind of using an adage....to me that was pretty much the last time he looked like a legit RB

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

While I think he is vastly overrated, Fournette can be useful if he’s OK being strictly a backup. I don’t think we were a fit there. 

He's definitely a starting caliber RB, just like Blount was for us in 2017. That doesn't mean he can't be utilized in a RBBC like we did with Blount and Ajayi mid-way through that season.

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

No I was kind of using an adage....to me that was pretty much the last time he looked like a legit RB

There were a few good runs he had at the beginning of 2018 but yeah all the injuries have crushed him. 

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

I don’t fault JP at all, I’m glad they paid him

the Pryor/Mailata thing doesn’t add up to me.  They kept Pryor on the roster only to banish him, and they even threw him out as a starter at LT which appears to have been some sort of ruse now.  
And you can’t keep Mailata for multiple seasons as the "next in line” and then never actually insert him when there’s a glaring hole

 

My take has always been "next man up”...if the guard goes down, put in his backup and keep everything else the same.  I understand we had two injuries but they got too cute with cross training and negotiating and it blew up in their faces 

I think we're in agreement more than you think. I never thought much of either Pryor nor Mailata despite all the rosy impressions that were dripping out of the team's PR machine the last couple years. Which is precisely why I understood and agreed with the rationale to bring in JP to play RG after Brooks went down, and then shuffling him back to LT once Dillard went down too.

20 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Didn’t we have Villanueva at DE for a time?? Did I just make that up?

Yes. And as much fun as it is to dog on Chip Kelly, you have to put it into perspective. He came out of the army super lean. He had to gain weight just to get up to 250 for TC. After he was cut, Steelers took him as a lottery ticket that turned out to be a jackpot. He gained another 90 pounds and was able to keep his athleticism to play LT. I'm not really sure how anyone can say its an easy bet to convert him to T without using hindsight. 

15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

What exactly has he been given that haven't shown positive results??

2013 - Lane Johnson - 1st round, arguably best RT in the league.

2014 - no OL drafted

2015 - no OL drafted

2016 - Seumalo -3rd round, average to above average G. Vaitai - 5th round. Quality 6th man, cashed in FA.

2017 - no OL drafted

2018 - Pryor - 6th round, backup, could be argued a miss. Mailata - 7th round, complete lottery you can't say is a miss.

2019 - Dillard - 1st round, Unknown.

2020 - Driscoll, 4th round. Unknown, promising start in a season with no OTA's and modified TC. Wanogho - 6th round. Unknown. 

The rest are UDFA guys like Herbig, Opeta etc etc. 

Look at the guys he's inherited. 

Evan Mathis - journeymen, became all pro in 2013, pro bowler in 2013/2014

Kelce - Only All pro's 2017/2018/2019. Only pro-bowls 2014, 2016, 2019

Peters - is Peters. Not much to debate with him. 

Warmack - sucked

Wisniewski - average. 

So because he couldn't coach up an inherited bust in Warmack and a 6th round pick, he sucks now? Your expectations are completely unrealistic. 

 

Exactly. Reid, for all his faults, at least knew the value of keeping that position group stocked with talent. 

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

Other than Dante Sarnecchia, and maybe Bill Callahan, not sure who exactly you think you can get as an upgrade over Stoutland.

Stoutland is fine, he's far from being the problem here.

So everyone but Alshon

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

So everyone but Alshon

Hargrave full practice, not limited?

Question, did anyone pick up anything exotic or even different with the D-Line against Washington? The whole premise with hiring Matt Burke, who never coached D-Line, was supposedly because Schwartz wanted to scheme up different line play and mismatches. Nothing stood out while watching to me, seemed like Schwartz usual bread and butter. 

Just now, Khani1 said:

Hargrave full practice, not limited?

It just started, won't know until around 4

31 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Jones. Douglas. Pumphrey. Miller. Thornton. Hollies. Gibson. Qualls. Smallwood. Countess. McCalister. Walker. None of them worked out. 

Right now I'd say Barnett isn't looking like a brilliant first round pick. JJAW a bad second round pick. 

You don't have to hit on every pick. We know that's impossible but the first list above are all gone. Barnett may be gone after this year and JJAW will be on the hot seat unless we see a major turnaround. 

Not 1 bit of that matters if we win and so far we have. 

16 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Villanueva was let go because Chip wanted him to play DT and never considered switching him. Dunlap would have been nice to keep under Stoutland but was a Mudd dud and got washed away with the regime change. 

I could be wrong but I remember under Chip them switching Villanueva to OT.  He was still considered a project back then and they ended up releasing him.  

But I'm pretty sure they tried him at OT.

 

2 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I could be wrong but I remember under Chip them switching Villanueva to OT.  He was still considered a project back then and they ended up releasing him.  

But I'm pretty sure they tried him at OT.

I remember him coming in as OT, his college position, and immediately switching to DE. I don't remember them trying him just because he was so undersized, but I could be wrong.