7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

No one ever said we need to prop up a 5th year franchise QB. And let's take Wentz out of it, and pick any other QB in the league outside of Russ, Rodgers and Mahomes. 

 

You may not have said that. But the article that was referenced and spawned most of this conversation did.

As for the rest... I agree. The playcalling is atrocious and the offensive philosophy is non-existent. 

2 hours ago, RLC said:

Sam Bradford pre-injury was good. I wish we could have seen him in a good environment. He's on the list of QBs ruined by the situation. Sam Darnold is the most recent victim. 

I think this has a lot to do with it.  Wentz (despite decent stats in 2018/2019) hasn't been the same QB since his injury.  Then add whatever is going on with his back, and there you have it. 

38 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Which is the bigger problem overall?  

Talent

Scheme

Coaching

everything

54 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The problem with this narrative is that this year is his worst year in terms of time to throw.  He was better in 2018 and 2019.  Both 2018 and 2019 were better than 2017. It's not his athletic ability that has changed.  What has changed is the OC.  It's clear the offense is not run well.  I am not saying that Wentz isn't part of the problem but I just don't think the narrative about his athletic ability holds up to scrutiny.  

I mean look at this break down from Dan Orlovsky on this play:

This incompletion is on Ward. Ward did not read the defender.  Wentz did.  Wentz made a good throw to the right spot and made the right read.  Now Ward was the issue. Did Ward not understand what he was supposed to do? Is the problem with the WR coaching? Is it a problem with Ward not reacting to the defender? Is it a problem because the OC does not communicate to the receivers or the receiver coaches what they should be doing?  

I think there's a lot of issues with the team.  I think some of it comes down to Wentz.  I think a lot more comes down to coaching.  I think a well coached team makes this play.  

The biggest issue on this to me appears to be Peters. The hell is he doing. He passes off the DE to Seumalo, but doesn't identify the looping defender? How many times has he seen this play in his long career. If Peters passes off the initial defender and then picks up the looper, Wentz is likely able to drive the ball to Ward on the corner. Gross. Bench Peters for the rest of the year, or let him claim some phantom injury and just IR him. 

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Man, you really need to look in thee mirror and self scout why you feel society has gone where you think.  I think a team that started Vick and Cunningham has shown that it is beyond that racist tripe 

You totally missed the point I was trying to make.

25 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

I am by no means a "Wentz is the only problem" guy. But we need to get be honest with ourselves about what we saw last year.

Wentz had the same "OH NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING" moments last year even when he had more time to throw. They just didn't result in as many turnover for whatever reason. I can specifically remember several potentially game/season ending interceptions dropped by opposing defenses throughout that last string of games. You can probably put what is happening this year in the "law of averages" column. Is Wentz really this turnover prone? No. I think he's worse than what statistics showed last year and better than when he's showing this year. The rolls of the dice are just catching up to him.

I have zero doubt we could get the best coaches, the best receivers, the best o-line, and the best defense and win with Wentz. The problem is you're paying him like he's Tom Brady... which cripples the organizations ability to sign all the talent needed in order to win with a subpar QB.

His contract is actually fairly reasonable.  It's top 5 in terms of guarantees at signing but it's not like he's the highest paid QB.  I think he's likely to fall out of the top 5 given what Dak will likely get.  The fumbling is an issue that has been a persistent problem.  The interceptions are a new problem.  I don't think he has been near this bad previously.  

We don't need the "best coaches." They need a good coach.  They don't need the best o-line or receivers.  They do better with better talent. They shouldn't need Carson to be the best QB in order to be competitive.  It's unclear to me that he is playing as bad as we think when a number of the mistakes appear to be from other players on offense.  

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

It depends if its going to be a legit change, or just a sacrificial  lamb

Doug and Staff gone is what we need

Schwartz fired and a new figure head as an OC is what were gonna get. 

The thing is, they don't even have to fire Schwartz, they can just elect not to sign him to a new contract.  They will use that as making big changes without having to actually make a bold move that has to be done.

I want it to be Howie.  It should be Howie and Doug.  We won't get that though. 

23 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The biggest issue depends on the week. Early on injuries and Wentz were the problem on offense. The scheme was fine. Over the past 3-4 weeks the scheme has been bad. And there isn’t a unit that is playing/coaching well enough to help overcome it. 

I put this squarely on Lurie and/or Roseman. They pushed for these changes when Pederson clearly didn’t want it. 

It's hard to know what the OC search was like.  It's clear that they passed over Duce for the role and he was pissed about it.  It's clear that Doug was told to bring in outside voices.  It's unclear to me whether Doug had a say in those voices.  The reality is that we have a situation where the is no one to point fingers at other than Doug on the offensive side of the ball.  That could be Doug's doing.  It could be that some of the people are Doug's people whereas some of them are Howie's.  I mean lord knows why they thought they should bring in Morningwhieg.  Is he someone Howie and Lurie trust to give them feedback? Is he someone Pederson trusts to help him game plan? Was Scangarello someone Doug wanted or someone Howie wanted? 

47 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Which is the bigger problem overall?  

Talent

Scheme

Coaching

This is tough.  You can argue for any one of them. 

Coaching/scheme kind of go hand in hand.  A good coaching staff can create schemes to make average players look better and take advantage of what's given to them.

A good coaching staff should also be able to take lesser talent and help them progress and grow to be better players

A lack of talent narrows what the coaches can do and they have to rely on their schemes/playcalling.  

The Eagles are lacking in all 3.

31 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The biggest issue depends on the week. Early on injuries and Wentz were the problem on offense. The scheme was fine. Over the past 3-4 weeks the scheme has been bad. And there isn’t a unit that is playing/coaching well enough to help overcome it. 

I put this squarely on Lurie and/or Roseman. They pushed for these changes when Pederson clearly didn’t want it. 

This makes me ask myself another question. Is Pederson just shrugging his shoulders now at this point and just letting things roll the way Lurie and Howie designed them? Or is he trying to take the reigns and win some games despite the ridiculous offense?

2 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Man, you really need to look in thee mirror and self scout why you feel society has gone where you think.  I think a team that started Vick and Cunningham has shown that it is beyond that racist tripe 

Not to mention the best QB in franchise history. White QBs have basically been the minority throughout Lurie's tenure as owner.

7 minutes ago, greend said:

This makes me ask myself another question. Is Pederson just shrugging his shoulders now at this point and just letting things roll the way Lurie and Howie designed them? Or is he trying to take the reigns and win some games despite the ridiculous offense?

To me it seems like Doug has checked out 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

You could have 2 black QBs as your starter and your backup and the media could, and has made it about race. 

How quickly we forget how Russell Wilson wasnt black enough

People see what they want to see, playing the hypothetical victim when it's not justified. Some of you are veering into Limbaugh territory with this.

Let's leave the racism stuff for CVON guys. Personally I couldn't care if any of our players are purple......................just.start.winning!

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Not to mention the best QB in franchise history. White QBs have basically been the minority throughout Lurie's tenure as owner.

I mean really - Cunningham was replaced by Peete.  Peete was replaced by Bobby Hoying, briefly.  Pederson started for less than half a season and then he was replaced by McNabb. McNabb was eventually replaced by Vick except for like 5 games from Kolb.  Vick was replaced by Foles in 2013.  

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

So I'm headed into the path of the media being scumbags, creating race tensions when its a nothing story. 

 

Pro tip: If you find yourself agreeing with Limbaugh, re-evaluate where you've failed in your thought process

Doug wants to use more 13 personnel going forward. Kill me now

24 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The biggest issue on this to me appears to be Peters. The hell is he doing. He passes off the DE to Seumalo, but doesn't identify the looping defender? How many times has he seen this play in his long career. If Peters passes off the initial defender and then picks up the looper, Wentz is likely able to drive the ball to Ward on the corner. Gross. Bench Peters for the rest of the year, or let him claim some phantom injury and just IR him. 

I think Wentz threw it where he did because of the location of the CB.  He was essentially counting on Ward to also cut the route a little short.  Peters also did not look good.  

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Doug wants to use more 13 personnel going forward. Kill me now

Is Ertz back?

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Not to mention the best QB in franchise history. White QBs have basically been the minority throughout Lurie's tenure as owner.

Again, that was not the point I was trying to make.  WE as Eagles fans know the history of this team and having AA quarterbacks.  It's safe to say Lurie is one of, if not the most progressive owners in the NFL.  You can argue the Eagles have given more chances to AA quarterbacks than any other team in the NFL.  They've also given some of the biggest quarterback contracts at the time to AA quarterbacks.  

Randall Cunningham (Starter)

Rodney Peete (Starter)

Jeff Blake

Donovan McNabb (Starter)

Michael Vick (Starter) 

Vince Young

Dennis Dixon

Jalen Hurts

 

The point I was making, if you look at my original post, is how long will it be until someone in the media or on twitter/social media brings up the fact (their opinion) that the reason the Eagles won't bench Carson to play Hurts is because of race.  All it takes is one blue check mark to make that comment and them it takes off like wildfire.    

 

2 minutes ago, greend said:

Is Ertz back?

Doug said he’s optimistic he’ll be playing Monday so most likely 

1 hour ago, greend said:

I know I'm a predator. I enjoy hunting but I loooooove the meat from most wild animals. Salads.........................................not so much

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-rumors-adam-schefter-someone-job-fired-eagles-struggles-carson-wentz-doug-pederson-nfc-east

 

This guy thinks Howie should go first.

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think Wentz threw it where he did because of the location of the CB.  He was essentially counting on Ward to also cut the route a little short.  Peters also did not look good.  

Yup. Ward has had some bonehead moments on route running this year 

So I have 1/2 a 5th of scotch left, a 5th of vodka, most of a 5th of rum, and about 12 beers. I'm not sure I have enough booze to get through the Seattle shellacking we're about to get