2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Fair point. Everything about the situation is a mess. But Doug hired Reich, and that was probably the most important hire of his tenure outside of possibly Stout. 

Pederson didn't hire Stout, he just retained him, Stout was a chip hire.

 

1 minute ago, Allhaildawk said:

for a retirement?

Why would Wentz retire?

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

He's not making the choices alone but saying the Hurts pick was Doug just because of how happy he was during the pick is ridiculous 

I NEVER said it was Doug's pick. What I implied is that there had to be a conversation about Hurts if he was available with the 2nd pick - I don't believe Howie makes that pick without Doug's input and approval - he just handed Wentz a fat extension - drafting a QB in the 2nd round is extremely unlikely without the HC lobbying for it. It was organizational pick for sure but the genesis of that pick is very unlikely to have started with Howie.

11 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

So you think it was Howie's decision to not hire an OC? I agree this coaching by committee is a disaster - AND don't mistake my providing some proper perspective on the Hurts pick as a defense of Roseman - as I posted there is plenty to criticize him for. As to the coaching - I think - Doug doesn't want to give up play calling - after all his mentor Andy Reid never had to - (Doug has not yet grasped that he is not Andy). Roseman or Lurie fired Groh after Doug had publicly supported him - So I think Doug decided if I can't have the OC I want then I won't have an OC at all. 

 

Yes it's a mess. I started a thread early in the season that's now somewhere in IWTETG - about HC prospects. I think they all need to go - Lurie hires a new GM and let him have at it.

I don’t believe Howie made him go without an OC, but he did make Doug go outside his comfort zone to bring on a fresh voice with a prominent role. That decision has been disastrous. 

Our playcaller has cratered and so has our franchise QB. Would it be that way with a true OC? Who knows, but I don’t think Doug has complete trust in the outside voices. Scangarello’s concepts have been a train wreck. Assuming Mornhinweg brought over the Ravens’ Lamar package, that has been a disaster. We brought in that Mississippi State assistant to incorporate more spread concepts. It doesn’t look like he’s helped much. 

So, yeah, Doug hasn’t done a good job of marrying these concepts together. That’s a failure on his part. It’s clear, however, that forcing him to fire his guys hasn’t worked like the Eagles hoped. And I put that on Lurie/Howie for not giving Pederson the slack he deserves as a SB winning coach. It’s too much meddling. 

10 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Fair point. Everything about the situation is a mess. But Doug hired Reich, and that was probably the most important hire of his tenure outside of possibly Stout. 

I don’t disagree with that. Which makes it more curious as to why Lurie and the eagles treated him the way they did this past offseason. Don’t get me wrong I have my issues with Doug and his creativity on offense but I think the roster construction over the last two years has been worse and restricted some of the things that I think you’d want to do. I just kind a look at howie and say if he’s fired, I can’t imagine a GM’s gonna come in here and take the job knowing he has to keep doug as a requirement. 

as for the GM job if Howie Roseman is fired, I better know I have at least three years of job security taking this job. The first year I’m in cap hell because I’m about 60 to 70 million over the cap. So I have to get myself Compliant that year. Then year two I have to figure out what my quarterback situation is with a better roster around him and how I’m going to use the space I have to construct the roster. It might not be until year three until you get back into a position where your a legit contender and that’s if he doesn’t have to start over at QB. 

2 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I NEVER said it was Doug's pick. What I implied is that there had to be a conversation about Hurts if he was available with the 2nd pick - I don't believe Howie makes that pick without Doug's input and approval - he just handed Wentz a fat extension - drafting a QB in the 2nd round is extremely unlikely without the HC lobbying for it. It was organizational pick for sure but the genesis of that pick is very unlikely to have started with Howie.

I don’t want to cut you short, but some of these guys have been dragging the "who’s to blame for our drafts” conversation around about 100x longer than needed.

GM has final accountability for the draft, GM uses draft board created by player personnel department, and GM takes suggestions and input from coaching staff prior to draft.

Doug obviously had input on the Hurts pick and was happy with it.  Howie takes all the accountability and scrutiny (blame) if/when the pick isn’t useful 

8 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Pederson didn't hire Stout, he just retained him, Stout was a chip hire.

 

I know that, but I’m sure while he was strongly encouraged to retain him, Doug did have to OK it. Maybe he had no choice. 

22 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I got no problem for kicking Doug to the curb as well.  This organization needs a restructure, stem to stern.

the team needs a complete overhaul,  if it was a 500 record and out of the first round, it's coaching, if it's below 500 and in the bottom 5 in tank standings it's the gm and coaches.

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t believe Howie made him go without an OC, but he did make Doug go outside his comfort zone to bring on a fresh voice with a prominent role. That decision has been disastrous. 

Our playcaller has cratered and so has our franchise QB. Would it be that way with a true OC? Who knows, but I don’t think Doug has complete trust in the outside voices. Scangarello’s concepts have been a train wreck. Assuming Mornhinweg brought over the Ravens’ Lamar package, that has been a disaster. We brought in that Mississippi State assistant to incorporate more spread concepts. It doesn’t look like he’s helped much. 

So, yeah, Doug hasn’t done a good job of marrying these concepts together. That’s a failure on his part. It’s clear, however, that forcing him to fire his guys hasn’t worked like the Eagles hoped. And I put that on Lurie/Howie for not giving Pederson the slack he deserves as a SB winning coach. It’s too much meddling. 

I think we're in agreement here. I will keep posting there is plenty to criticize Howie for.  I think it's ok for the GM to tell the HC what he thinks - but ultimately must leave the decision to the HC - let him sink or swim on his own merit. 

Making coaching decisions for HC and then faulting him for the results is total BS

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t disagree with that. Which makes it more curious as to why Lurie and the eagles treated him the way they did this past offseason. Don’t get me wrong I have my issues with Doug and his creativity on offense but I think the roster construction over the last two years has been worse and restricted some of the things that I think you’d want to do. I just kind a look at howie and say if he’s fired, I can’t imagine a GM’s gonna come in here and take the job knowing he has to keep doug as a requirement. 

as for the GM job if Howie Roseman is fired, I better know I have at least three years of job security taking this job. The first year I’m in cap hell because I’m about 60 to 70 million over the cap. So I have to get myself Compliant that year. Then year two I have to figure out what my quarterback situation is with a better roster around him and how I’m going to use the space I have to construct the roster. It might not be until year three until you get back into a position where your a legit contender and that’s if he doesn’t have to start over at QB. 

Douglas took the Jets job knowing Gase was going to stay so it’s not really far fetched. Doug has three playoff appearances and a SB win. I’m not sure Lurie would have to twist a GM’s arm too hard to keep him around for at least a year. 

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Check the history, the decision to trade for Golden Tate was highly questioned as it happened.  Same with Avery.  Same with Desean, and the decision to resign him to a higher contract, at his age was also questioned.  

 

and anytime anyone questioned anything, the response was: don't worry about the cap, Howie knows what he's doing... Howie is a cap genius... blah blah blah.  These moves were questioned in the moment, but the response was that Howie knew what he was doing.   Seems he didn't. Time to pay the piper.

I was here during that and one of very few who spoke out against it on deadline day. It wasn't highly questioned then.  Not until Tate couldn't get integrated did people start questioning it.

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I got no problem for kicking Doug to the curb as well.  This organization needs a restructure, stem to stern.

Yeah if you do 1, you do both. 

lmao, how convenient

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

I was here during that and one of very few who spoke out against it on deadline day. It wasn't highly questioned then.  Not until Tate couldn't get integrated did people start questioning it.

You’re not remembering it all that well then. It definitely was highly questioned at the moment. People wanted to know why we’d trade a 3 for an 8-game rental who played the same position as Agholor. 

I understand a lot of your guy’s points on here and logically they make sense but I still believe both doug and howie are going to be back next year. I think 2021 is going to be the year that makes or breaks what they are going to do with the doug and howie Roseman. I fully expect the pandemic to be brought up when they tell you both are coming back. I expect them to use the injuries as an excuse. And I expect lurie to have some fiery press conference saying this isn’t good enough and it has to change starting now otherwise changed will be made. 

I think Doug is going to be asked to give up playcalling and I think they’re gonna fire some of their coaches (i tend to believe  The stretch of four games coming up is going to dictate a lot about Jim Schwartz ). Now with howie, I don’t know what they do but i tend to think he somehow survives this but is likely on thin ice heading into 2021. 

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t disagree with that. Which makes it more curious as to why Lurie and the eagles treated him the way they did this past offseason. Don’t get me wrong I have my issues with Doug and his creativity on offense but I think the roster construction over the last two years has been worse and restricted some of the things that I think you’d want to do. I just kind a look at howie and say if he’s fired, I can’t imagine a GM’s gonna come in here and take the job knowing he has to keep doug as a requirement. 

as for the GM job if Howie Roseman is fired, I better know I have at least three years of job security taking this job. The first year I’m in cap hell because I’m about 60 to 70 million over the cap. So I have to get myself Compliant that year. Then year two I have to figure out what my quarterback situation is with a better roster around him and how I’m going to use the space I have to construct the roster. It might not be until year three until you get back into a position where your a legit contender and that’s if he doesn’t have to start over at QB. 

Really the $60M over the cap number means that fans will have to understand a few veteran players are gone:

Jeffery, D-Jax, Malik Jackson definitely gone

Ertz, Graham, Barnett possibly gone (2 of 3 in some combination)

Kelce possibly retires would save $8M.  The rest of the cost-cutting would be restructures

1 minute ago, metal said:

lmao, how convenient

Yikes. I’m sure folks will spin this however they want. Hopefully this is a legit injury and not him pouting. 

58 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Dam I was off by 2 days. I predicted he would be fired Mon. They didnt even have the heart to give him the Holiday weekend. That's cold

1 hour ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

The multiple O-Line combos is certainly not ideal but there’s no way do I think it has much or anything at all to do with how pathetic Wentz has played. There’s no excuse to win 3 out of 10 games. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

You’re not remembering it all that well then. It definitely was highly questioned at the moment. People wanted to know why we’d trade a 3 for an 8-game rental who played the same position as Agholor. 

Nah.  I remember it well. I even know where I was at the time.  I was on a bus with our volleyball team on the way to a playoff match watching the news as the deadline hit. I posted from the bus saying this was a desperation move just to make a trade after missing on a speed WR ( wanted Robbie Anderson, or Jackson) or another position of need. And I remember the pushback from the blog on that post.

 

It should be mentioned that while the cap was always a tight rope and at some point we were going to have to pay the piper, Howie couldn’t have planned for a pandemic crushing the cap even more. 

Not that it absolves him. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yikes. I’m sure folks will spin this however they want. Hopefully this is a legit injury and not him pouting. 

He can pout and miss the rest of the season if he wants.  Why should we even care?

1 minute ago, hputenis said:

The OL is really only out there for decoration; the unit is more symbolic than anything 

   Sarcasm, for those who miss it 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Nah.  I remember it well. I even know where I was at the time.  I was on a bus with our volleyball team on the way to a playoff match watching the news as the deadline hit. I posted from the bus saying this was a desperation move just to make a trade after missing on a speed WR ( wanted Robbie Anderson, or Jackson) or another position of need. And I remember the pushback from the blog on that post.

 

Yeah, you’re not remembering it that well if you think you were one of the few questioning it. 

8 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don’t want to cut you short, but some of these guys have been dragging the "who’s to blame for our drafts” conversation around about 100x longer than needed.

GM has final accountability for the draft, GM uses draft board created by player personnel department, and GM takes suggestions and input from coaching staff prior to draft.

Doug obviously had input on the Hurts pick and was happy with it.  Howie takes all the accountability and scrutiny (blame) if/when the pick isn’t useful 

And Howie always has taken responsibility for the bad picks and gives organizational credit for the good picks - And you're right - from a employment perspective the GM is going to be judged on results. But we fans don't need to be so rigid and obtuse. We don't make the decision to keep or not so we are free to discuss the nuts and bolts.