4 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

His last year in college was nuts, his time at Bama was forgettable.  He wasn't even draft worthy before his transfer.

He feasted on weak Big 12 teams. It became an exercise in stat padding.

8 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Without any FA money to spend and only so many draft picks, the Eagles will be forced to bet on their OL being healthier next season.  If you have Dillard-Seumalo-Kelce-Brooks-Johnson then you’re still talented enough there.  Herbig, Driscoll and Mailata provide some depth.  If Kelce retires then Seumalo moves to C and Driscoll/Herbig compete for a guard spot.  Some pretty big suppositions, I know.

I’d like to see Reagor replace Ward as the primary slot WR, draft Chase (or Waddle) as a starter outside with Fulgham.  Hightower and Watkins can hopefully be developed as depth there.  IMO drafting a starter at CB and LB is also a must, and the Eagles need to get a suitable #2 RB to spell Sanders as well.
 

There won’t be any room to draft any Taylor’s or Hurts’ next April.

There wasn't any room to draft Hurts this year.  Jeremy Chinn was there for the taking.  

Silver lining with all of the o-line injuries is that we now know what we have in Opeta, Herbig, Driscoll and Mailata.  You MIGHT have found 2 starters there for 2021 along with solid depth. 

A lot depends on Kelce if he retires, how much you depend on Brooks at RG and whether or not they can find a trade partner for Lane Johnson (not sure of cap ramifications).

If Kelce retires and you're able to move Lane then you have your starting tackles ready with Dillard and Mailata with Isaac at center.  Driscoll will be a great swing tackle, especially if he adds weight.  Herbig/Opeta start at one spot with Brandon Brooks.  

No Lane or Kelce-    Dillard   Herbig   Isaac   Brooks   Mailata              This is my ideal situation.  It means you didn't waste a pick on Dillard and he is a starter in the NFL and you get value for Lane before it's too late.  Aside from Brooks, this is a young o-line that can grow together.  

No Kelce-   Mailata   Herbig   Isaac   Brooks   Johnson        Wouldn't be mad at this line but I would hope they can trade Dillard for a 2nd or 3rd.  At the very least get the 4th back from Avery.   

None gone   Mailata   Isaac   Kelce   Brooks   Johnson       Not excited about this.

 

I agree with you, the cap is going to hinder a lot this year.  The draft needs to be used for players who can come in and contribute right away across the board.  No projects or players expected to learn a new position.

The draft needs to be used to rebuild for the long-run, no one they can draft will make this a winning team in 2021. So go for volume and upside, rather than "NFL ready" and let them learn on the job and accept a 10+ loss season in 2021, Eagle fans will accept that if there's a clear vision at the top and confidence that they know how to turn it around. You have two years of cap hell to work through in any case.

Look at Miami, by going for youth, they actually improved, because they stopped hoping that mediocre veterans would have a sudden resurrection.

Since the Eagles won't be able to sign UFAs, good opportunity to add comp picks for the 2022 draft while giving every street free agent who can fog a mirror a shot at the team. Build a young roster, clear the cap, and position yourself for a rebound in 2023.

2 hours ago, bbabraham said:

Interesting read from Kempski regarding blowing it all up (and how trading Wentz would result in the most dead money in history - so not feasible):

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-blow-it-up-rebuild-rumors-howie-roseman-trades-doug-pederson-coaching-changes-0599970/

"It's never great when there's a decent argument to draft any position in the first round, aside from running back, tight end, kicker, punter, and long snapper."

That line stung quite a bit.

I think most teams would disagree with the quoted statement depending on what player was on the board.

Regardless, the most owner-friendly argument to fire Howie is this: Of the $10M+ per year players on the offense, only Kelce is currently healthy and playing at an adequate level. Lurie clearly wants offensive production and is spending big to get it, but his ROI this season is laughably bad.

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The draft needs to be used to rebuild for the long-run, no one they can draft will make this a winning team in 2021. So go for volume and upside, rather than "NFL ready" and let them learn on the job and accept a 10+ loss season in 2021, Eagle fans will accept that if there's a clear vision at the top and confidence that they know how to turn it around. You have two years of cap hell to work through in any case.

Look at Miami, by going for youth, they actually improved, because they stopped hoping that mediocre veterans would have a sudden resurrection.

Since the Eagles won't be able to sign UFAs, good opportunity to add comp picks for the 2022 draft while giving every street free agent who can fog a mirror a shot at the team. Build a young roster, clear the cap, and position yourself for a rebound in 2023.

Things change too much in the NFL to plan for adequate play 3 seasons from now.

Using Miami as a model organization is not the way to go.

2 hours ago, bbabraham said:

Interesting read from Kempski regarding blowing it all up (and how trading Wentz would result in the most dead money in history - so not feasible):

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-blow-it-up-rebuild-rumors-howie-roseman-trades-doug-pederson-coaching-changes-0599970/

"It's never great when there's a decent argument to draft any position in the first round, aside from running back, tight end, kicker, punter, and long snapper."

That line stung quite a bit.

I'm in an Eagles facebook group and someone mentioned Eagles could trade Wentz by agreeing to pay half or give up picks to a team willing to take on the cap hit. Similar to how the Browns took on Osweiler's contract when the Texans traded him

I think it'd have to be high picks because that's a big contract. With the needs all around I don't see how even a new GM would trade picks to get rid of the contract

2 hours ago, bbabraham said:

Interesting read from Kempski regarding blowing it all up (and how trading Wentz would result in the most dead money in history - so not feasible):

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-blow-it-up-rebuild-rumors-howie-roseman-trades-doug-pederson-coaching-changes-0599970/

"It's never great when there's a decent argument to draft any position in the first round, aside from running back, tight end, kicker, punter, and long snapper."

That line stung quite a bit.

There are other similar media pieces out there now too.  They finally had the courage to get at the FO after getting at the coaching for so long.  It just adds pressure to Lurie that a light touch won't go down well

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I'm in an Eagles facebook group and someone mentioned Eagles could trade Wentz by agreeing to pay half or give up picks to a team willing to take on the cap hit. Similar to how the Browns took on Osweiler's contract when the Texans traded him

I think it'd have to be high picks because that's a big contract. With the needs all around I don't see how even a new GM would trade picks to get rid of the contract

There are likely enough GMs/personnel people around the league who still think Carson Wentz is a golden boy. Eagles would likely get more Eagles-friendly Wentz trade offers than we think as fans/armchair GMs and cap guys.

3 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

There are likely enough GMs/personnel people around the league who still think Carson Wentz is a golden boy. Eagles would likely get more Eagles-friendly Wentz trade offers than we think as fans/armchair GMs and cap guys.

I don't think anyone would want to take on that contract and the Eagles certainly wouldn't trade picks. I just found it funny how there are fans that will go to the extreme

Wentz isn't going anywhere. Hopefully the next GM can actually add talent to help Wentz out. Hopefully the next HC and/or OC create plays that help Wentz instead of constantly saying they'll work on implementing something but then never do

And run the damn ball

 

8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I don't think anyone would want to take on that contract and the Eagles certainly wouldn't trade picks. I just found it funny how there are fans that will go to the extreme

Wentz isn't going anywhere. Hopefully the next GM can actually add talent to help Wentz out. Hopefully the next HC and/or OC create plays that help Wentz instead of constantly saying they'll work on implementing something but then never do

And run the damn ball

Of course not. I never said they would. "Eagles friendly" was the term I used as in teams would give up more than many of us think they would.

40 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

There are likely enough GMs/personnel people around the league who still think Carson Wentz is a golden boy. Eagles would likely get more Eagles-friendly Wentz trade offers than we think as fans/armchair GMs and cap guys.

I know the quick Hot Take narrative going around is that Wentz is hot garbage now, but anyone who actually looks at the team, and each game impartially, sees Wentz is struggling, but there is always more to it.

First you have to look at his history 2017-2019. Then look at the Eagles Oline having now 10 different combinations in 11 straight games, we have back ups to the backups playing. The Most Hits, Sacks, and Pressures in the NFL. These things lead to Ints, and QB Fumbles. 

And then look at his WR's 1) Reagor, a rookie with 4 games under his belt, Fulgham, a young WR who was cut from two other teams this year, Ward who was a practice squad player last year, a converted QB who is a decent 4th or 5th option. His wr's have the highest number of drops this year as per PFF (last time it was reported was last week) These WR's often take more time to get "open" than NFL Caliber starting wr's. They often do not come back to the ball. These things lead to PBU's and INT's , if the QB is throwing the ball on time. Wentz has a lack of confidence in his WR's which is now causing him to hold the ball too long, take sacks, as he is waiting for them to have clear separation. He didn't use to do this. He used to just let the ball rip. He is now tentative.

Then they look at the game plans and play calling-  Why has Doug had Wentz throw for nearly 40 throws AVG each game this year, behind this oline and throwing to these WR's? Why do we only do 1 rollout a game? They look at the lack of creativity (excluding the stupid Hurts distractions). How anyone sees our Oline , knows Wentz is more accurate on the run, and REFUSES to use regular rollouts to move the pocket, by time for these WR's is just plain stubborn stupidity. Lack of reliance on the run game has led to a lot of 3rd and long situations, which doesn't help as the defense is now expecting you to pass, you become so predictable.  We have thrown on 63.5% of the time. thats 5th highest in the league.

Let me remind you we are throwing 63.5% of the time, with Reagor, Ward, Fulgham as your starting wrs!!!!

Coaching- discipline- this team shoots itself regularly with all the penalties. It is to the point that I expect every "punt return" will come with a 10 Yard flag attached to it. 

Lastly, starting field position has been horrendous this year, part of that is really crappy ST's and a lack of forced turn overs from our defense, and inability to make stops consistently on defense. This means we have to have long sustained drives in order to score. One of the benefits of 2017 was we were getting turn overs regularly, and even "scoring on defense" a novel concept I know. We are tied for 24th with only 11 Takeaways this years, and are 30th in Differential.  (not hard to understand, your QB is the most hit, sacked and pressured QB in the league which leads to turnovers, and your defense doesn't force many. 

 

 

Wentz is struggling no doubt, he has no confidence in who he is throwing to. The Oline is a mess, and play calling is questionable at best. 

It's completely understandable, and when you compare his other 4 seasons to this one, what stands out is just how bad the team around him is now.  If anyone actually studies the games, and not just repeats the hot takes, it's easy to see, and is all fixable. 

 

I'm torn about throwing tonight. On the one hand, Peters/Pryor in theory should be a good run-blocking right side (no idea about Peters, but Pryor) is. On the other hand, the Seahawks pass defense is clearly their weakness. They are good at stopping the run. If we get into 3rd and long, they can blitz with any of their LBs + Adams. If we get into 3rd and long, Pryor is going to get matched up against Dunlap and repeatedly lose. The best way to avoid 3rd and long is not to run, but to pass for 1st downs. All it takes is one negative run/stuff, for 2nd and 10/3rd and 11.

Seumalo/Kelce/Peters are not 100% either. They're each battling something. 

There is no QB the Eagle can obtain, unless they pick in the top 5, with the upside of Wentz.

So trading him would be stupid, unless and until Hurts shows he's a starting caliber QB.

Instead, you start the rebuild with the OL, to keep him upright, and go from there.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

I'm torn about throwing tonight. On the one hand, Peters/Pryor in theory should be a good run-blocking right side (no idea about Peters, but Pryor) is. On the other hand, the Seahawks pass defense is clearly their weakness. They are good at stopping the run. If we get into 3rd and long, they can blitz with any of their LBs + Adams. If we get into 3rd and long, Pryor is going to get matched up against Dunlap and repeatedly lose. The best way to avoid 3rd and long is not to run, but to pass for 1st downs. All it takes is one negative run/stuff, for 2nd and 10/3rd and 11.

Seumalo/Kelce/Peters are not 100% either. They're each battling something. 

 

We have no WR's to throw to, and our Oline gives up the most pressures, hit and sacks in the league. We should be running the ball around 50% of the time just to shorten the game, and keep wentz upright.  

 

But we wont.  Doug is not THAT guy. Even in 2017, we didn't start running the ball more until the players approached Doug and were pleading with him to run the ball. 

I don't think it will be so easy passing the ball. The Seahawks are getting their #1 corner back from injury. Also, their pass rush has improved since trading for Carlos Dunlap. If Seattle is smart they will line him up over Matt Pryor on every snap and tell him to get after Wentz. He played well with Cincy earlier in the year and that was against Lane.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, we can be thankful for that, I suppose.

Unless Howie gets his guy next year and Gase is the new HC 

Dunlap is going to destroy Pryor. It’ll be bad. 

The hatchet jobs are starting.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/louis-riddick-says-howie-rosemans-poor-draft-record-speaks-itself

Problem is of course Howie really only ran the drafts since 2016, AR had more power until he was canned and Kelly pushed him out of the way.

Howie brought in Douglas for his expertise, guess he hired the wrong Raven executive.

But if you look at 2016-20, it's a more nuanced situation.

2016: the Wentz deal, even with the Bradford trade, cost a bunch of picks, but Wentz from 2017-19 certainly justified that trade, they don't win a SB without Wentz in 2017. #79 Seumalo, #164 Vaitai, #196 Countess, #233 Mills, #251 Walker, that's a lot of depth from one draft

2017:  #14 Barnett, #43 Jones, #99 Douglas, #118 Hollins, #184 Gerry, note that Jones and Douglas are playing much better away from Schwartz, is this a drafting or coaching issue? Barnett is a solid starting DE, not a star, but people forget that he's only 24, he may end up starting for over a decade.

2018:  #49 Goedert, #125 Maddox, #130 Sweat, #206 Pryor, #233 Mailata, that's a heck of a haul with limited picks, Sweat was like Taylor and Hurts this year, a project based on athleticism that has panned out. Maddox and Pryor are good depth that shouldn't be starting.

2019:  #22 Dillard, #53 Sanders, #57 JJAW, #138 Miller, JJAW was a whiff, but 2 other teams took WRs before Metcalf (Campbell #59 and Isabella #62), Dionte Johnson #66, Hurd #67, McLaurin #76 - good reason not to use a 1st on a WR unless he's a generational talent. Dillard was a project that they knew would need a year in the weight room before replacing Peters, the biceps injury is "crap happens."

2020:  #21 Reagor, #53 Hurts, #103 Taylor, #127 Wallace, #145 Driscoll, #168 Hightower, #196 Bradley, #200 Watkins, #210 Prince, #233 Toohill, so far this looks like a solid draft, if they thought Hurts is a potential starting QB, they had to take him. I'd point out in terms of short-term value, only Dobbins #55, #64 Chinn,, #66 Gibson, have had any impact, and 2 are RBs, while no guarantee Chinn beats out Mills this season. Taylor where he was picked was a good upside gamble, no LB picked after him is starting.

The fantasy that a draft is going to have a huge immediate impact is driven by draft day media attention, in reality, after the 1st round, only a few players per round start as rookies, and this season probably less than normal due to lack of exhibition games and mini-camps.

So in five years, Howie missed on 2 2nd rd picks, one of whom is playing much better since he left town.

 

3 hours ago, bbabraham said:

Interesting read from Kempski regarding blowing it all up (and how trading Wentz would result in the most dead money in history - so not feasible):

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-blow-it-up-rebuild-rumors-howie-roseman-trades-doug-pederson-coaching-changes-0599970/

Add Jimmy to the list of people that have recently (finally) come to the realization that the run is over and it is time for new leadership across the board.

Based on the articles this past week and weekend, it certainly gives me hope that the owner will indeed find the courage to move on from Roseman and bring in new personnel leadership.  Retaining Roseman to delay a true rebuild and to have any say or input in ruining another draft would be devastating.  Talk about a "dark winter" - that will be it for Birds fans.

The Eagles need to focus on losing each and every one of these games.  I think they have a very real chance at the 3rd pick, but can really hurt the position with meaningless wins.  I don't see how the Eagles should be favored against any team in the league, other than perhaps the Jets.  Maybe a pick against the Jaguars.  They appear to be the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the league right now.  We want the draft position to reflect that.  Let's get another Lane Johnson or someone with long term, cornerstone type impact at the top of this next draft, and have high picks in every round.  Realistically, this would probably need to happen (and could) for the next couple of years.  The cupboard is that bare.  These are going to be some lean years, pretty much no matter what, so buckle up.

The other thing here is the people doing the evaluations and selections and making FA decisions are so crucial.  They need to find the right leader, first and foremost.  Future success depends on this.  Lurie will need a lot of outside help in finding and evaluating that role.  I hope he finds some former successful GMs that might provide assistance.

The Eagles also very much need to look at trading any assets with any value right now, in terms of veteran players that can still play.  Each and every one of them should be on the block, and moved if the return is right.  The return of course should be meaningful draft assets and/or position.

Miami is a good model.  They are well on their way already, with copious draft assets to augment what they have in place now.  It starts with culture change and getting the right leadership in place.

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

I love Saturday NFL.

I'm not a huge fan of College ball(for numerous reasons) so me getting extra NFL is ok by me 

I love college football but I always love when we get to Saturday NFL games.  It means we are near the holidays, many times I'm with family when they are on so it just gives a feeling of comfort.  Plus usually around the time of ARMY-NAVY just things I always enjoy. 

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The hatchet jobs are starting.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/louis-riddick-says-howie-rosemans-poor-draft-record-speaks-itself

Problem is of course Howie really only ran the drafts since 2016, AR had more power until he was canned and Kelly pushed him out of the way.

Howie brought in Douglas for his expertise, guess he hired the wrong Raven executive.

But if you look at 2016-20, it's a more nuanced situation.

2016: the Wentz deal, even with the Bradford trade, cost a bunch of picks, but Wentz from 2017-19 certainly justified that trade, they don't win a SB without Wentz in 2017. #79 Seumalo, #164 Vaitai, #196 Countess, #233 Mills, #251 Walker, that's a lot of depth from one draft

2017:  #14 Barnett, #43 Jones, #99 Douglas, #118 Hollins, #184 Gerry, note that Jones and Douglas are playing much better away from Schwartz, is this a drafting or coaching issue? Barnett is a solid starting DE, not a star, but people forget that he's only 24, he may end up starting for over a decade.

2018:  #49 Goedert, #125 Maddox, #130 Sweat, #206 Pryor, #233 Mailata, that's a heck of a haul with limited picks, Sweat was like Taylor and Hurts this year, a project based on athleticism that has panned out. Maddox and Pryor are good depth that shouldn't be starting.

2019:  #22 Dillard, #53 Sanders, #57 JJAW, #138 Miller, JJAW was a whiff, but 2 other teams took WRs before Metcalf (Campbell #59 and Isabella #62), Dionte Johnson #66, Hurd #67, McLaurin #76 - good reason not to use a 1st on a WR unless he's a generational talent. Dillard was a project that they knew would need a year in the weight room before replacing Peters, the biceps injury is "crap happens."

2020:  #21 Reagor, #53 Hurts, #103 Taylor, #127 Wallace, #145 Driscoll, #168 Hightower, #196 Bradley, #200 Watkins, #210 Prince, #233 Toohill, so far this looks like a solid draft, if they thought Hurts is a potential starting QB, they had to take him. I'd point out in terms of short-term value, only Dobbins #55, #64 Chinn,, #66 Gibson, have had any impact, and 2 are RBs, while no guarantee Chinn beats out Mills this season. Taylor where he was picked was a good upside gamble, no LB picked after him is starting.

The fantasy that a draft is going to have a huge immediate impact is driven by draft day media attention, in reality, after the 1st round, only a few players per round start as rookies, and this season probably less than normal due to lack of exhibition games and mini-camps.

So in five years, Howie missed on 2 2nd rd picks, one of whom is playing much better since he left town.

 

Hatchet jobs???  The article was absolutely spot on.  Riddick said verbatim what I have been saying for years.

Your review of those draft classes is incredibly rosy!  The bottom line is he was dead on.  They haven't drafted any impact players.  They have missed on a ton of 1st and second day picks.  You can say he "missed on 2 second rd picks" in five years, OK... where are all the hits??????  Show me those players.  If you are going to point to every single pick and say "this guy is decent etc" you miss the point that he hasn't drafted much good, at all.  The few better players have tended to be extremely injury prone OR have other issues.

Defending the Hurts pick renders your analysis moot.  I'll cite WF here who rated it the worst draft pick he has seen since he started his website.  There is just no justification for it.  As an aside, look at what Chin has done!  The guy Schwartz, who everyone thinks is an idiot and wants run out of town, pounded the table for.  The Davion Taylor pick was also awful by any measure.

This is absolutely the wrong way to look at these drafts.  Riddick is 100% correct.

If I am the owner, here is how I look at it.  I call my personnel people in and ask them if they are aware of how much money we just paid our franchise QB.  Then I ask them, why is my franchise QB not throwing to DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson?  Take me through the logic again please.  I need to understand this.  Once done, I ask who is responsible for these decisions, when they were fired and were they sued after being fired?

I ask to hear again what happened in 2017 when Dalvin Cook fell out of round 1, how we came out of that incredible RB draft with Donnell Pumphrey, and why the resources to move up and take Cook were more valuable than making the "aggressive" move.

I could go on and on.  The standard is not whether you can look back and justify certain picks.  The standard is whether you are actually building a talented team and getting better, or not.  The Eagles are doing the opposite, and along the way they are also making insane decisions that defy logic and give them an appearance of arrogance.  If you are missing on early picks, BUT you also find a Trent Cole, a Jason Kelce, then maybe you still end up OK.  When you have the high profile misses, and others who made the more "obvious" choices you SHOULD have made end up in much better shape, AND you don't find any late round gems... that is where it gets ugly fast.  And that is where we are at.

 

By the way, Sidney Jones is not playing well. He's statistically worse this year than last year and has missed the last two games due to injury.

35 minutes ago, austinfan said:

There is no QB the Eagle can obtain, unless they pick in the top 5, with the upside of Wentz.

So trading him would be stupid, unless and until Hurts shows he's a starting caliber QB.

Instead, you start the rebuild with the OL, to keep him upright, and go from there.

Wentz IMO is the most fixable and least of their "big 3" problems.  They've invested far too much at this point to sell low and get minimal return.   He's playing like crap for sure but he isn't getting any help.  

Howie needs to go, no questions about it.  I don't want a restructure of power either.  He needs to be gone from the Eagles organization.  We need a new set of eyes on everything from contracts to scouting and drafting.   I want a new GM to come in here and look at this team and do what has to be done to right the ship.

DP needs to bring in an OC and have them call the plays.  The fact that he hasn't adjusted to Carson playing poorly shows me a lot.  Yea, Carson sucks this year.  He's getting no help from the play calling whatsoever.  He's playing behind the 10th different O-Line and DP refuses to move him out of the pocket.  DP doesn't commit to the run when it's working and will also help a struggling quarterback.  

Wentz can be fixed.  Bring in coaches to get on him, not coddle him.  Bring in players to help him, not snitch to the media, complain about their contracts or underperform.  Look at Dallas, Denver, Baltimore and Buffalo.  They all brought in young talent to help their young quarterbacks.  Look at KC.  They could have said we have the best QB, he can do it on his own but they have weapons for him.  No offense to Fulgham but relying on a street FA to be Carson's #1 is not helping him out.  

If Howie is back, then my interest in the Eagles is going to hit an all-time low.

Eagles are gonna win tonight.