Just now, NCiggles said:

Wendell Smallwood over Tyreek Hill

Meh, Hill has always been a scumbag and a big red flag. I can give this one a pass.

 

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Have to be able to score 30+ points consistently to be able to win in today's NFL.  The only two games the Eagles even approached that this season was against the Steelers 38-29 (where they trailed 31-14) and the Ravens 30-28 (where they trailed 24-6).

For the folks who believe the offense can turn it around just with Doug giving up calling plays -- just look at Reagor, Sanders, and Hurts -- it's all the evidence you need.  Reagor and Sanders are by far the most talented offensive players and should get fed constantly.  Hurts was supposed to be Doug's 'weapon-X'.  Those 3 guys encapsulate who Doug is.  Right now he's Matt Nagy.

I’ve never liked the way we’ve rotated players in so much on offense. Just don’t agree with it. That’s their philosophy though. When Duce Staley said Miles Sanders is ready to be a work horse back I giggled. We’re to worried about getting everyone involved.

17 minutes ago, Swoop said:

We need to come up with something stupid like "Wentz Washer", but for Hurts.

I'll start:

Hurts Hugger

I like it albeit it's not quite as graphic as a ball washer.  

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know how far this team is off from being a contender. I think it entirely hinges on Wentz improving his play. I think that is possible and even likely with better coaching and o-line play.  I do think Pederson can return to being an effective head coach if he has a better coordinator and re-evaluates his playcalling.  I am Kempski hits on a major issue which is that Howie has failed to add young talent through the draft.  I think they could add enough talent through the draft to have a better team next year.  The problem still would be whether you can rely on Wentz to improve. 

I think the best way out is to hire a new GM and dump Howie entirely.  Hire a GM that basically puts Doug/Wentz on a one year probation period.  There's no reason this team could not challenge for a division title next year.  I mean Washington has improved.  The Giants have improved.  Dallas will likely be better if Dak is able to come back healthy.  I don't think any of those teams have a dominant side of the ball.  I think a new GM allows for some changes but it doesn't necessarily mean that Doug or Wentz are out the door.  I think it essentially gives Wentz a 2 year window to show improvement.  I mean if Hurts simply takes over for him they may try to move on from him sooner but I don't see it happening before the end of next year. Doug deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has skill as a head coach. He just needs better support. A new GM could be a new lease on life for him if he has success. 

 

I don't think Pederson is a good coach for a young team, he's a players' coach, and especially veteran players.

The cap means this team is going to shed veterans the next two seasons, so like it or not, they HAVE to rebuild simply b/c they can't sign FAs, and a lot of current players are "gone with the wind."

Right now this is your 2021 roster, and I doubt you'll get much help in the draft, because you never get much help from rookies (only a couple each year play significant roles).

QB:  Wentz, Hurts

RB:  Sanders, Scott, Huntley, Holifield

WR:  Reagor, Fulgham, Ward, Hightower, Watkins

TE:   Goedert, Perkins, Rodgers

OL:  Mailata/Dillard - Driscoll/Seumalo - Seumalo/Juriga - Brooks - Lane, Herbig, Opeta, Prince, Pryor, Toth

DL:  Graham - Cox - Hargrave - Barnett, Sweat, Ostman, Ridgeway, Williams, Avery, Miller

LB:  Taylor - Edwards - Singleton, Bradley, Riley

CB:  Slay, Maddox, LaBlanc, Jacquet, James

S:  McLeod, Wallace, Mills, Epps, Ford, Riley

And they may have to shed a veteran or two to get under the cap.

This will be a young team that will get even younger in 2022 when they have to shed more salary and still won't be able to afford FAs.

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know how far this team is off from being a contender. I think it entirely hinges on Wentz improving his play. I think that is possible and even likely with better coaching and o-line play.  I do think Pederson can return to being an effective head coach if he has a better coordinator and re-evaluates his playcalling.  I am Kempski hits on a major issue which is that Howie has failed to add young talent through the draft.  I think they could add enough talent through the draft to have a better team next year.  The problem still would be whether you can rely on Wentz to improve. 

I think the best way out is to hire a new GM and dump Howie entirely.  Hire a GM that basically puts Doug/Wentz on a one year probation period.  There's no reason this team could not challenge for a division title next year.  I mean Washington has improved.  The Giants have improved.  Dallas will likely be better if Dak is able to come back healthy.  I don't think any of those teams have a dominant side of the ball.  I think a new GM allows for some changes but it doesn't necessarily mean that Doug or Wentz are out the door.  I think it essentially gives Wentz a 2 year window to show improvement.  I mean if Hurts simply takes over for him they may try to move on from him sooner but I don't see it happening before the end of next year. Doug deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has skill as a head coach. He just needs better support. A new GM could be a new lease on life for him if he has success. 

 

no, when a new gm comes in, he wants his own coach, he wont keep doug. nothing on this team is worth keeping, if you want to keep believing in that there's something worth salvaging nonsense then this team will be stuck as a bottom 500 team. every player on here is aging player, there's no young players to rebuild around. it needs a complete rebuild.

9 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Wendell Smallwood over Tyreek Hill

Howie blows at the draft but I'm not sure I can kill them for that. Once you get past the 3rd round you are pretty much shooting into the dark.

I don’t know if the eagles have ever had their backs against the wall more than this week leading up to game day. With all the talk this week I think the Eagles find a way to win.

50 minutes ago, John_C said:

Not a chance of this happening.  Would be devastating if this did happen.  The Eagles need to lose these games, hopefully lose every single remaining game.  it's time to get back to the top of the draft.  We don't want pick 10 or 12.  We want pick 3 or 4.  In every single round.

People are still waiting for the team to show up in one of these games, like the Green Bay or Buffalo games last year.   That team is now completely gone.  The Eagles are one of the 3 worst teams in the NFL.  Teams can look at an upcoming game against the Eagles as a great opportunity for a "get right" game.  In the Seahawks case, they are probably looking at their defense playing much better than in past weeks.

I see a Seahwaks 38-17 type win tonight.  Hawks - 6 is free money for any so inclined.

except for round 4....thanks Howie.  Avery has been such a game changer here.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Barnett is not a backup, he's been our starting RDE for the past few years.

44 games, 26 starts, 18.5 sacks, 60 QB hits, 90 tackles.

He's decent value where he was picked and is only 24 years old in his 4th NFL season.

2016 draft:

#19 Lawson, 72 tackles, 18.5 sacks

#32 Ogbah, 114 tackles, 26 sacks

best, #65, Nassib 92 tackles, 19.5 sacks, #67 Ngakoue 123 tackles, 43.5 sacks, #146, Judon, 157 tackles, 32.5 sacks (note 24 years old when drafted)

2017 draft: 

#26 McKinley, 17.5 sacks, released

#28 Charlton, 46 tackles, 11 sacks

#51 DeMarcus Walker, 29 tackles, 9.5 sacks

#59 Kpassagon, 47 tackles, 7 sacks

2018 draft:

#14 Davenport, 36 tackles, 12 sacks

#46 Speaks, 15 tackles, 1.5 sacks

best DE, #77 Hubbard, 91 tackles, 15.5 sacks

2019 draft:

#16 Burns, 45 tackles, 13.5 sacks

#26 Montez Sweat, 48 tackles, 13 sacks

next best, #106 Crosby 49 tackles, 16 sacks

Again, "decent value" and "OK" are terrific, as long as some of your picks become impact players.  Fletcher Cox was the 12th overall pick.  Brandon Graham was the 13th overall pick.  They became impact players and franchise cornerstones.  Years later those two guys still make the majority of the plays on defense here, maybe moreso now.  You are talking about guys drafted in 2010 and 2012.  Barnett can still improve, and he has played well at times, but he has fallen well short of expectations if we are honest about it.

The bottom line is that Riddick is correct, the Eagles have drafted bottom of the league for some time and that is why they stink.  

You can't fail to draft any impact players for many years and be any good.  It just doesn't work that way.  And if you want to justify prior decisions over a period of years and say "yes but this made sense at the time" " the player they got is decent" " if only they didn't get hurt" etc. please go right ahead, but the bottom line is the same - the team stinks, and it stinks *primarily* because the drafting has been awful.

The standard for your GM and personnel group needs to be are you drafting impact players, are you drafting starters, are you drafting guys that fit your culture, that work with your schemes, that coaches can work with and make better, and are you getting more talented and better as a team.  This is how any owner should make an evaluation over multiple years.  Not "well at the time it seemed to make sense" or "they did what they could with what they had" or "we had a few bad years in a row for what we needed" or "we traded a 3rd round pick for a vet WR we didn't need"  etc. etc.  Whatever the excuses are.

Beyond that baseline for personnel group draft evaluation, the next level is how are you making it all fit together?  Are the guys you are drafting that play well together and compliment each other?  Are you meeting your coaches needs?  How is your long term planning across all positions?  Do you have young talent at different positions in place before the veterans are gone at those positions?  That is all NEXT level stuff that good GMs do -- we are so far short, with nearly complete failure at the first part, that it is irrelevant to even consider those questions.  The overall ineptitude is really shocking, when you also take the state of the team overall and the salary cap into account.  I'm focused on getting the talent evaluation/acquisition/draft piece fixed first as without that everything else doesn't much matter.

24 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Kinda backed me up. 

Top 10-15 picks were good. after that Fubar. 

So getting a top 10 pick, we get one good player, what about the rest of the draft picks ??

Anyone get the feeling that tonight is the last time Carson starts for this team?

And it is quite heart breaking but I think the guy has checked out.

I can't take credit for this as I read it online somewhere, but it was funny enough to share here:

'Howie couldn't find a star even if he had a telescope.'

🤣

19 minutes ago, Penn7980 said:

A win tonight would be nice, but a really tall order.  Our guys may be more hype up for the prime-time game and beating a top team.  Not very confidence the team is able to pull this off though.

With the QB situation as such now, it would be very difficult to make major changes.  Go with the rush plays significantly more would help and take the pressure off Wentz trying to play "hero" ball.  OL is part of the problem, which needs to be fixed in the off season.  Play the young guys this season to get them the game experience and find out what we have and what is still needed.  Win is always good, but not critical for this season as it stands now.

I would argue a win tonight would not be nice.  It would be a setback, and detrimental to future team success.

The Eagles losing out would be the best possible result for us.  Makes it easier for the owner to make decisions that are necessary and act in the team's best interests.  Also positions the team with badly needed draft assets.

14 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

no, when a new gm comes in, he wants his own coach, he wont keep doug. nothing on this team is worth keeping, if you want to keep believing in that there's something worth salvaging nonsense then this team will be stuck as a bottom 500 team. every player on here is aging player, there's no young players to rebuild around. it needs a complete rebuild.

A new GM will want to win.  I don't think it would mean the end of Doug.  I do think a new GM would move on from him after next season if the team doesn't improve.  

14 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I don't think Pederson is a good coach for a young team, he's a players' coach, and especially veteran players.

The cap means this team is going to shed veterans the next two seasons, so like it or not, they HAVE to rebuild simply b/c they can't sign FAs, and a lot of current players are "gone with the wind."

Right now this is your 2021 roster, and I doubt you'll get much help in the draft, because you never get much help from rookies (only a couple each year play significant roles).

QB:  Wentz, Hurts

RB:  Sanders, Scott, Huntley, Holifield

WR:  Reagor, Fulgham, Ward, Hightower, Watkins

TE:   Goedert, Perkins, Rodgers

OL:  Mailata/Dillard - Driscoll/Seumalo - Seumalo/Juriga - Brooks - Lane, Herbig, Opeta, Prince, Pryor, Toth

DL:  Graham - Cox - Hargrave - Barnett, Sweat, Ostman, Ridgeway, Williams, Avery, Miller

LB:  Taylor - Edwards - Singleton, Bradley, Riley

CB:  Slay, Maddox, LaBlanc, Jacquet, James

S:  McLeod, Wallace, Mills, Epps, Ford, Riley

And they may have to shed a veteran or two to get under the cap.

This will be a young team that will get even younger in 2022 when they have to shed more salary and still won't be able to afford FAs.

There is not a single player on the Eagles , with the possible exception of Kelce, that deserves an invite to the Pro Bowl.

Yeah, Howie has done a great job.

Reuben Frank had an interesting stat this morning. He said that Doug will be the first Eagles coach since Marion Campbell to coach for 3 straight years and not have a 10 win season. Wow.. 

20 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Anyone get the feeling that tonight is the last time Carson starts for this team?

And it is quite heart breaking but I think the guy has checked out.

Unless he plans on retirement, I don't see that at all. He will start again this season and likely the bulk of next. After that, who knows?

40 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Wendell Smallwood over Tyreek Hill

Friendly reminder that we are approaching the hindsight is 2020 unreasonable tater draft season. Buckle up. 

1 minute ago, Thrive said:

Anyone get the feeling that tonight is the last time Carson starts for this team?

And it is quite heart breaking but I think the guy has checked out.

I think there's something wrong with him.  That concussion he got from the dirty hit from Ass-Clowney was a bad one from all the info that made its way to the media.  I think he's still suffering lingering symptoms from it.  To me, he's not seeing the field and the plays unfold in front of him as fast as he needs to and has done in the past.  He's not processing the game fast enough.  Baldy showed breakdowns on 2 plays from back-to-back weeks where Wentz had the play open if he got the ball out on time and in both instances he double clutched and got it out late.  Seems he's doing that often this season.  It's also been said that he doesn't trust his OL and WRs (and Hell, maybe even the play calls themselves) and that's contributing to his timing being off, but if you don't trust your OL then wouldn't you consciously try and get the ball out faster?  Instead he's doing the opposite.  I really don't think he's seeing the game and processing it the way he used to and needs to.  The lingering effects from a bad concussion can last for well over a year, sometimes even multiple years, and it's been less than a year at this point.

I think he's a fighter and competitor so I wouldn't say that he's 'checked out'.  But he's playing poorly and when someone who is a fierce competitor is playing poorly they usually put extra pressure on themselves and try too hard which usually makes it worse than better.  And honestly I don't think the stale vanilla play calls and WR routes that Doug and the OC by committee are calling are helping, yet they haven't changed anything all season.  They need to take a page out of what they did for Foles in 2017 and tweak the O to the QB you have.  Right now you don't have the version of Wentz from previous seasons, you have a bad version that could use some quick slants and crossing routes to scheme WRs open, some WR jet sweeps (and not with Ward, but with Reagor and Hightower) and you need to commit to the run game even when you're not getting 5.0+ YPC.  These are all things are brilliant O staff has failed to do to help Wentz be better this season.

I'd be surprised if this is the last time we see Wentz starting for the team as his contract dictates he will be back as long as he's fit to play.  However, I also wonder if it would be to his benefit to go on IR the rest of the season and go through extensive testing for his cognitive abilities and given more time to heal.  I'm sure he's been tested, but I also wonder how thorough he's been tested. 

 

25 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

No idea what all this means? A first pick that averages a sack 1 every 3 games or so in the first half of the first round isnt good

Is that an attempt to compare him to other trash other teams picked?

Actually, the stats tell us that he’s much better than average for where he was drafted. Here are the stats of every DL player drafted around where Barnett was drafted in the last 5 years:

2015 Draft

Beasley - Pick 8

Games Played - 80

Sacks - 37.5

Sacks/Game - 0.469

Shelton - Pick 12

Games Played - 79

Sacks - 4.5

Sacks/Game - 0.057

 

Armstead - Pick 17

Games Played - 67

Sacks - 20.5

Sacks/Game - 0.306

 

2016 Draft

Rankins - Pick 12

Games Played - 56

Sacks - 17.0

Sacks/Game - 0.304

Lawson - Pick 19

Games Played - 54

Sacks - 17.5

Sacks/Game - 0.324

 

2017 Draft

Barnett - Pick 14

Games Played - 39

Sacks - 16.5

Sacks/Game - 0.423

Allen - Pick 17

Games Played - 41

Sacks - 16.5

Sacks/Game - 0.402

 

2018 Draft

Davenport - Pick 14

Games Played - 27

Sacks - 10.5

Sacks/Game - 0.389

 

2019 Draft

Wilkins - Pick 13

Games Played - 21

Sacks - 2.0

Sacks/Game - 0.095

Burns - Pick 21

Games Played - 9.5

Sacks - 9.5

Sacks/Game - 0.4523

8 minutes ago, vsptroops said:

Reuben Frank had an interesting stat this morning. He said that Doug will be the first Eagles coach since Marion Campbell to coach for 3 straight years and not have a 10 win season. Wow.. 

Guess playoff wins don't count

8 minutes ago, vsptroops said:

Reuben Frank had an interesting stat this morning. He said that Doug will be the first Eagles coach since Marion Campbell to coach for 3 straight years and not have a 10 win season. Wow.. 

They won a playoff game in 2018 that counts as a W in my book. 

I'm going to laugh when we don't see extra Hurts tonight and it's the same 2ish plays, but with Wentz not lined up at W. 

7 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

Friendly reminder that we are approaching the hindsight is 2020 unreasonable tater draft season. Buckle up. 

Sure, we can all say hindsight is 2020 in these scenarios, but we can also point out the multitude of posters on this very board clamoring for the guys the Eagles did not take that are killing it.

A huge chunk of us talked about Jefferson and Chinn being the first two picks, a huge group wanted Metcalf, this is more than just hindsight.

37 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Anyone get the feeling that tonight is the last time Carson starts for this team?

And it is quite heart breaking but I think the guy has checked out.

Lets just say we have completely diff views of this. The guy that has checked out is Doug.