9 minutes ago, Mrkingofspades said:

 

People said that Jefferson was just a slot receiver and that we didn't need a slot guy (without hindsight of him being more than a slot guy now), but let me tell you what, I'd rather have had a dominant slot guy making plays early in his career than a project that may or may not pan out in the future. 

Not disagreeing but do you really think jefferson looks good in this crap offense and coaching and qb play?

Put reagor in minnesota minus the early injury and id guess reagor would have better stats than jefferson in Philly.

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh right his accuracy is bad because of other people? His mechanics are bad because of other people? My god this guy gets so many freaking excuses made for him. I'm bored of it.

it's like they are expecting the receivers to have superman abilities plus he's not even throwing to the receivers that are open, i mean if the open receivers cant catch a catchable ball then yeah that's where the blame should lie.

50 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

$69 million in 2 guys who rotate with each other, on top of Cox's $100 million.  I get loading up on the lines but this is just terrible use of money.  You signed Hargrave knowing that he never will play 100% of the snaps.  If you go through the game log Hargrave maxed at at 73%, Malik at 79%.  They both play 51% of the snaps if you average it out.  Cox plays 70%. 

I just don't like throwing that much money at guys who are on the bench for half the game.

I’ve been ****ing about this all year. With the game on the line you’re just as likely to see a TY McGill or Joe Ostman out there as Hargrave or Jackson.

Why pay them that amount if you rotate them with TY McGill?

4 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

Is he off the ISuckAtFootball list?

13 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

That was the thought.  Pressure up the middle.  Jim Schwartz needs to learn that scheme can help too.  Blitz your safeties, blitz your linebackers.  Run stunts.  They pay top dollar for their DT and expect them to just win their battles.  If the Eagles invested just a small amount in decent linebackers who can blitz AND cover, the schemed to take advantage of that kind of player and got creative then they could get by with Antonio Dixons and Darwin Walkers of the world rather than having $170 million tied up in 3 players.  Thing is, I was a DT in my hs and college playing days so I love the position.  I just don't think it's smart to have that much.

I don’t disagree with you. Why I I posted below don and I have this conversation that you should be using your cap Resources not so much to add high price defensive players but add offensive playmakers and guys on offense with the money because of the way the NFL is going. The way the league is set up you could have a great defense like the Niners had last year but if you can’t score on offense 27 to 35 points consistently you are likely going to struggle to win football games in this league. That Super Bowl speaks volumes to that. I think the Niners had a great defense better than the Chiefs. However in today’s league the Chiefs elite offense was going to win that game because the defense the rules just don’t set up for you to have the type of success over an offense like that. I think the days of having elite defense that carries you to a Super Bowl with an ok offense have passed. You can get by having an average defense if you can get them to create turnovers but have to have a top 10 offense that can put points on the board and is dynamic with big plays.

For instance I think of seattle’s defense. Lately they have been better. Because they made some adjustments to the personnel that they have and they’ve gotten back to running the ball so they’re not on the field as often as they were earlier in the year. Now I thought it was stupid that they gave up The picks they did to get Jamal Adams. I don’t think he was worth it and those resources could’ve went into hoping Russell Wilson in other areas such as his offensive line. But they are going to have a chance to get to the Super Bowl even though that defense I would say is below average because your offense is so good that you can make up for that. You’re likely gonna have to score in the 30s when you get to playing the New Orleans Saints or the Green Bay Packers 

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

We don't even know if it was a "read option"....if it wasn't, it was not a "missed opportunity".   How often has Jalen passed this year?  Right.  So chances are it was a designed run.  Maybe someone can ask Doug if it was a read option or designed run so that we can put this debate to rest...  for one play.  

And do we really want to go that route around here?  Because there's probably 100+ plays we can "assume" in regards to Wentz this year and I assure you, it won't bode well for him.

 

Yea Jalen is just running a bubble screen on the opposite side of the field for funsies. You hate Carson and love Jalen, we get it. You don’t have to to defend this dumb missed play to death 

Just now, Utebird said:

Not disagreeing but do you really think jefferson looks good in this crap offense and coaching and qb play?

Put reagor in minnesota minus the early injury and if guess reagor would have better stats than jefferson in Philly.

Maybe not as good of a season as he's having, but I 100% think Jefferson would still be looking better than Reagor has. 

Now Reagor in Minnesota, I think a bit better, but I still don't think he would be having the season Jefferson is. Reagor is just not as polished right now. 

9 minutes ago, Mrkingofspades said:

People said that Jefferson was just a slot receiver and that we didn't need a slot guy (without hindsight of him being more than a slot guy now), but let me tell you what, I'd rather have had a dominant slot guy making plays early in his career than a project that may or may not pan out in the future. 

There was a ton of us who wanted him, and all we heard was " he is just a slot guy "

You know what else he is, a freaking super star.  If the Eagles front office was not stupid, he would have been the perfect compliment to DK Metcalf, and we would have the best your WR duo in the NFL.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

There was a ton of us who wanted him, and all we heard was " he is just a slot guy "

You know what else he is, a freaking super star.  If the Eagles front office was not stupid, he would have been the perfect compliment to DK Metcalf, and we would have the best your WR duo in the NFL.

I never understood the only slot narrative with Jefferson. He played well on outside reps too. He was just used in the slot at LSU.

Would've loved either of them 😞

Also would've loved to have AJ Brown, who I really wanted in that draft. 

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup it makes zero sense to invest so much money on 3 DTs when only 2 of them are on the field at the same time.

Why not allocated that money to a LB or a corner or safety that will be on the field the same time as those two highly paid DTs instead of another DT that's on the bench.

Unless one is going to run a 34 defense and have those 3 DL be the 3 starters or run a 5 2 defense all game, having 3 DTs making big money is a sunk cost 

I had a long post typed out regarding contracts compared to players playing percentage.  I'm with you in thinking it's just silly to pay top dollar to a rotating position.  

1 minute ago, Mrkingofspades said:

I never understood the only slot narrative with Jefferson. He played well on outside reps too. He was just used in the slot at LSU.

Would've loved either of them 😞

Also would've loved to have AJ Brown, who I really wanted in that draft. 

Now we are in a position to draft Ja'Marr Chase, who has not played this year, and I have to wonder, with all the talk that Jefferson was a product of Chase dictating coverage, was it actually the other way around ??????

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yea Jalen is just running a bubble screen on the opposite side of the field for funsies. You hate Carson and love Jalen, we get it. You don’t have to to defend this dumb missed play to death 

Don't take this thread personally, bud.  This isn't even close to a Wentz vs Hurts debate. 

Hurts is a rookie QB who has yet to throw more that 3 passes in the NFL and Wentz is an established, franchise QB.  There is no comparing the two...not yet anyway and there likely won't be for some time.  So no, that's not what I'm getting at with my posts in this thread and if that's how I come across, that's not my intention. 

The real issue is whether or not the issues with the offense have more to do with Wentz or if it  has more to do with the system and/or coaching...or if it's a combination of the two. 

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

There was a ton of us who wanted him, and all we heard was " he is just a slot guy "

You know what else he is, a freaking super star.  If the Eagles front office was not stupid, he would have been the perfect compliment to DK Metcalf, and we would have the best your WR duo in the NFL.

Just saying if they got DK Metcalf I’m not so sure of the Philadelphia eagles are using that first round pick on a wide receiver. The problem with Justin Jefferson was the Eagles evaluation that he could only play the slot position. It’s what I said leading up to the draft because I was OK with them taking Justin Jefferson. I said if you don’t believe he could play the outside at an elite level or high level at the NFL level then don’t take him. But you better not make a mistake when you do that because he proves he can then it’s going to be disastrous for you. Again this goes back to they cannot evaluate the wide receiver position along with developing guys. Which is why their plan in the off-season of will just addressed wide receiver in the draft and will get production next year from it was completely idiotic

17 minutes ago, downundermike said:

No one is saying he is playing well, but this entire offense is broken.  Players, scheme, play calling, execution.

I know they aren't bud but the excuses are just a little too much. I know it isn't just Wentz and there are a lot of issues. 

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Now we are in a position to draft Ja'Marr Chase, who has not played this year, and I have to wonder, with all the talk that Jefferson was a product of Chase dictating coverage, was it actually the other way around ??????

I’m really less worried about that. Usually LSU WRs that are drafted in the first and second round tend to have good careers. I really can’t remember the last high-level LSU prospect at wide receiver that has failed at the next level. I know there’s probably one that I’m missing but really they’ve had a good track record of their guys getting to the league and having success.   Here is article Of Patrick peters on comparing him to a hybrid of DK Metcalf and DeAndre Hopkins.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/patrick-peterson-sees-hopkins-metcalf-in-jamarr-chase/ar-BB1bxmwq

15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

There was a ton of us who wanted him, and all we heard was " he is just a slot guy "

You know what else he is, a freaking super star.  If the Eagles front office was not stupid, he would have been the perfect compliment to DK Metcalf, and we would have the best your WR duo in the NFL.

I don't know that jefferson is a super star.

He's been the beneficiary of defenses focusing on cook and thielen.

Last game without thielen he only averaged 10 yards catch and caught a little over 50% of his targets after averaging about 17 yards per catch and 70% catch rate with thielen.

He did how ever have 2  short tds neither I would consider super star catches, just good play design got him open he ran good routes.

Having said that he's looked better on the outside than I expected and as good as I expected from the slot.

I think it's way too early to give up on reagor or make a definitive statement that howie should have taken jefferson as I don't think jefferson looks much better here and reagor would look better in minnesota than here.

Would people then say, howie should have taken reagor over jefferson?

The Metcalf argument is played out, his Injury history scared a lot of teams and Id guess the eagles who had been burnt by just drafting Sydney jones weren't willing to take that risk again.

Having said that when JJaW was drafted I was like who???

 

14 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Not disagreeing but do you really think jefferson looks good in this crap offense and coaching and qb play?

Put reagor in minnesota minus the early injury and id guess reagor would have better stats than jefferson in Philly.

Yup. Jefferson would be here looking like the second coming of JJAW and reagor would be lighting the league on fire. An awful QB and an awful coaching staff isn't going to help anyone.

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I don't know that jefferson is a super star.

He's been the beneficiary of defenses focusing on cook and thielen.

Last game without thielen he only averaged 10 yards catch and caught a little over 50% if his targets after averaging about 17 yards per catch and 70% catch rate with thielen.

He did how ever have 2  short tds neither I would consider super star catches, just good play design got him open he ran good routes.

Having said that he's looked better on the outside than I expected and as good as I expected from the slot.

I think it's way too early to give up on reagor or make a definitive statement that howie should have taken jefferson as I don't think jefferson looks much better here and reagor would look better in minnesota than here.

Would people then say, howie should have taken reagor over jefferson?

The Metcalf argument is played out, his Injury history scared a lot of teams and Id guess the eagles who had been burnt by just drafting Sydney jones weren't willing to take that risk again.

Having said that when JJaW was drafted I was like who???

 

I think only HE was happy when the selection turned out to be JJAW. I hated that pick. Tried to talk myself into and i still hate that pick. They basically tried to get their alshon replacement. Instead of trying to draft players to fit your offense, draft good players and adapt your offense to their strengths and skill set. You know like good teams around the NFL are doing

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think only HE was happy when the selection turned out to be JJAW. I hated that pick. Tried to talk myself into and i still hate that pick. They basically tried to get their alshon replacement. Instead of trying to draft players to fit your offense draft good players and adapt your offense to their strengths and skill set. You know like good teams around the NFL are doing

I wasn't even happy with that pick. I liked JJAW but there were a million different players I wanted in that spot. Even at WR, I said we needed a speed WR.

I rationalized the pick because I thought JJAW would be a fine player. But,  he didn't turn out to be.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think only HE was happy when the selection turned out to be JJAW. I hated that pick. Tried to talk myself into and i still hate that pick. They basically tried to get their alshon replacement. Instead of trying to draft players to fit your offense draft good players and adapt your offense to their strengths and skill set. You know like good teams around the NFL are doing

Yup. Even more perplexing is they drafted JJAW to be Jeffrey replacement at X receiver and howie gives jeffrey that ridiculous extension. Just unbelievably stupid stuff from howie on both ends.

I was the same way I didn't like the pick at first and tried to convince myself that it was a good puck but really couldn't and of course hate the pick now.

As for the Metcalf pick I think at the time I said I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole due to the Injury concerns until maybe the 3rd at highest.

On a side note I thought his team mate AJ brown was the best WR in that draft. 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

I wasn't even happy with that pick. I liked JJAW but there were a million different players I wanted in that spot. Even at WR, I said we needed a speed WR.

I rationalized the pick because I thought JJAW would be a fine player. But,  he didn't turn out to be.

Slow down buddy.  Don't make me go archive the old board.  You were jumping for joy with that pick.  

 

I'm joking btw....if I recall, I think you wanted a different position/player but were still (at least ) "ok" with the pick.

 

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I wasn't even happy with that pick. I liked JJAW but there were a million different players I wanted in that spot. Even at WR, I said we needed a speed WR.

I rationalized the pick because I thought JJAW would be a fine player. But,  he didn't turn out to be.

Frankly I’m still of the belief the Kansas City Chiefs knew the Eagles wanted mecole hardman And their offseason situation with Tyreek hill made them jump the Eagles to get him. I firmly believe that if Hardman was on the board at 57 that was going to be the pick

I personally wanted Juan thornhill so we could move on from mcleod at the end of last year. 

 

51 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The amount of money they have invested in the DT position in a league that doesn't run the football is laughable.  

But they are penetrating type DTs where up the middle pressure is the quickest way to disrupt the passer. 

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I wasn't even happy with that pick. I liked JJAW but there were a million different players I wanted in that spot. Even at WR, I said we needed a speed WR.

I rationalized the pick because I thought JJAW would be a fine player. But,  he didn't turn out to be.

I don''t recall JJAW being anyone's top choice.  I do think some people thought he was a good player.  

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Frankly I’m still of the believe the Kansas City Chiefs knew the Eagles wanted mecole hardman And their offseason situation with Tyreek hill made them jump the Eagles to get him. I firmly believe that if Hardman was on the board at 57 that was going to be the pick

Yup, seems whenever a team jumps the eagles and takes a player ahead of them that howie had targeted that Howie's plan B is, paper rock scissors lizard spock with the war room.

Howie's war room decision making process