48 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Sure you can argue against it.

If I could make every player on this team making >8m magically disappear to other rosters along with the entirety of their contract, I would do it.  
 

Every one of them.

I didn't say there isn't an argument against it.  I merely said that I can't.  I hate this plan, but its the only way I see forward... This is the same method an old growth forest creates new growth.   The old stuff burns up and makes room for new growth underneath.   Cycle of life...

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

that's some quality projection there...

I didn’t respond to that but this all comes down to the fact he’s not Nick Foles and he feels they should’ve kept foles and dealt wentz for picks. That’s really what it is. 

22 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Not with Wentz.  With the deluded thought process (of Wentz die-hard fans) that seem to think that benching a QB will ruin his career.  My issues have always been with the few dozen or so fans around here who idolize Wentz.  

The bizarre obsession is beyond logic or reason.  My best guess is that they may not all be Eagles fans...but primarily Wentz fans who started following the team more closely once they drafted Wentz....and some of them likely his fans from college.

That's the only way to rationalize it, imo. 

 

As for Wentz himself, I like him as a person and I think he can rebound from getting benched....if he puts the work in to fix his mechanics and other issues.

 

What a ridiculous take. Nobody thinks benching him will ruin his career. Your argument was that Foles and Hurts are better than him. Which they aren't. Which is why people think you're an idiot. Wentz has been bad this year, there's no debating that. Foles' faults have been exhausted in this blog, but you ignore them. Now you have Hurts to latch onto, and in time, his faults will be expounded on. And so on, until they draft another backup QB for you to get hard over. You absolutely, without question have an axe to grind with Wentz, and denying it makes you look even dumber than most of us already thought you were. 

2 hours ago, Casey @ Bat said:

Brooks and Lane shouldn’t go anywhere. Everyone talks about our QB play not being good, if you take 2 All Pro players off the line it’s usually not beneficial to QB or Team play. But hey ... let’s trade everyone for a 5th Rd draft pick because we do such a great job of drafting.

Well, there are 2 premises those moves are built on that you conveniently ignored: 

1 - There would be new people in place making the decisions on draft day. 

2 - The younger OL would offer continuity and end the carousel of different personnel groupings each and every week.

 

But, the last piece is likely the most important... you said, 'take 2 All Pro players' off the line.   Sure.  There's no guarantee that either Brooks or Johnson ever approach 'All-Pro' level ever again.  If I could be certain that Brooks and Johnson return to their 2015-2018 form... then I absolutely leave them in place and pay them what they are making.  But, there is absolutely no assurance of that.  The younger players behind them aren't as good as Brooks and Johnson once were... but then again, the current versions of Brooks and Johnson are also very unlikely to be as good as Brooks and Johnson once were as well.  

12 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Who in the hell is teaching Wentz mechanics?  That is the first person that needs to go.  It looks like Ace Ventura's throwing motion.   Stand up and try to throw a football like this.  It feels like you're a 5 year old girl who has never thrown a ball in her life.    

His mechanics/footwork have been steadily deteriorating since his injury.  They've gotten to the point (this season) where they are so glaring, even casual fans can see they are a mess.

 

For example. look at the way his front foot is planted.  The first thing they teach you in High School (sometimes earlier) is that your front foot should face the direction where you want the ball to go.  Look at his eyes...does his front foot match up?  Not even close.

Can you get away with it from time to time, on broken plays, when you're scrambling, etc?....sure....but you need significant arm strength and you need to use double the energy to get the ball where you want it to go.   

If you dive into the habit of planting your foot sideways on most of your throws, you see exactly what is happening with Wentz this season....missed 5-10 yard throws, the ball rarely hitting a player in the numbers (even the completions, the receiver needs to "go get it" whether it's high (Ertz all last year) low, etc etc).

 

 

Do you want to know what good mechanics/footwork look like?

Watch the way Nick Foles' front foot is planted on the vast majority of these plays and watch where the ball goes...

 

And before the Wentz fan-clubbers start complaining about Foles vs Wentz, I used this strictly as an example because as far as mechanics, Foles' mechanics/footwork were impeccable during his Super Bowl performance. 

I’d be thrilled to see Wentz clean it up, rebound, and be our guy.  Thrilled.

But very young top 10 picks at qb get "coddled.”  I don’t mean that in the negative sense.  What I mean...every decision is about maximizing their chance for success.  Who fits best with them, how can we adjust our competitive horizon to fit theirs, how can we maximize their protection, etc etc.

That ship has sailed on Wentz.  It’s time to look past him.  If he rights the ship, great...but a lot of that is on him now.  It should no longer be the sole purpose of the franchise to build around and fix Wentz.  Move forward...if HE figures it out, great.  

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I didn’t respond to that but this all comes down to the fact he’s not Nick Foles and he feels they should’ve kept foles and dealt wentz for picks. That’s really what it is. 

only way to rationalize it...

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

What a ridiculous take. Nobody thinks benching him will ruin his career. Your argument was that Foles and Hurts are better than him. Which they aren't. Which is why people think you're an idiot. Wentz has been bad this year, there's no debating that. Foles' faults have been exhausted in this blog, but you ignore them. Now you have Hurts to latch onto, and in time, his faults will be expounded on. And so on, until they draft another backup QB for you to get hard over. You absolutely, without question have an axe to grind with Wentz, and denying it makes you look even dumber than most of us already thought you were. 

This post made me think of this

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I’d be thrilled to see Wentz clean it up, rebound, and be our guy.  Thrilled.

But very young top 10 picks at get "coddled.”  I don’t mean that in the negative sense.  What I mean...every decision is about maximizing their chance for success.  Who fits best with them, how can we adjust our competitive horizon to fit theirs, how can we maximize their protection, etc etc.

That ship has sailed on Wentz.  It’s time to look past him.  If he rights the ship, great...but a lot of that is on him now.  It should no longer be the sole purpose of the franchise to build around and fix Wentz.  Move forward...if HE figures it out, great.  

You wouldn't be willing to see if he can be fixed with a different coaching staff? He has demonstrated the ability to be an elite QB before, and while he may not be able to do it again, with his contract as it is, I think we have no choice but to see if another coach can "fix" him. 

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

What a ridiculous take. Nobody thinks benching him will ruin his career. Your argument was that Foles and Hurts are better than him. Which they aren't. Which is why people think you're an idiot. Wentz has been bad this year, there's no debating that. Foles' faults have been exhausted in this blog, but you ignore them. Now you have Hurts to latch onto, and in time, his faults will be expounded on. And so on, until they draft another backup QB for you to get hard over. You absolutely, without question have an axe to grind with Wentz, and denying it makes you look even dumber than most of us already thought you were. 

Foles was, without question, a better QB in this system.  If you can't comprehend that, you probably shouldn't post much in this blog because your knowledge of football is at a casual-fan level. (If that).

And call me what you will, getting called an "idiot" from someone like you is actually a compliment.  Cheers.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

His mechanics/footwork have been steadily deteriorating since his injury.  They've gotten to the point (this season) where they are so glaring, even casual fans can see they are a mess.

 

For example. look at the way his front foot is planted.  The first thing they teach you in High School (sometimes earlier) is that your front foot should face the direction where you want the ball to go.  Look at his eyes...does his front foot match up?  Not even close.

Can you get away with it from time to time, on broken plays, when you're scrambling, etc?....sure....but you need significant arm strength and you need to use double the energy to get the ball where you want it to go.   

If you dive into the habit of planting your foot sideways on most of your throws, you see exactly what is happening with Wentz this season....missed 5-10 yard throws, the ball rarely hitting a player in the numbers (even the completions, the receiver needs to "go get it" whether it's high (Ertz all last year) low, etc etc).

 

 

Do you want to know what good mechanics/footwork look like?

Watch the way Nick Foles' front foot is planted on the vast majority of these plays and watch where the ball goes...

 

And before the Wentz fan-clubbers start complaining about Foles vs Wentz, I used this strictly as an example because as far as mechanics, Foles' mechanics/footwork were impeccable during his Super Bowl performance. 

Jesus this mechanics nonsense is going to drive me insane

Im about 1:30 minutes into your clip and Foles has made a total of 1 throw with "proper" footwork as you described.

On almost every single throw, hos front foot is not pointing to the target.  

In reality, in todays NFL, you have to make throws from almost every angle and body configuration humanly possible.  Just go watch Mahomes or Rodgers, on any play that isnt an immediate dumpoff, their feet are likely all over the place

And you know, if they are really so overly concerned about Wentz' mechanics, heres an idea: call more simple throws and call less RPO garbage where is faking a handoff to Sanders and immediately whipping his body around to throw a horizontal pass through a pile of humanity to Greg Ward.

Just now, phil77 said:

 

I want to say they only have 6 in their last 23 games. 

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I’d be thrilled to see Wentz clean it up, rebound, and be our guy.  Thrilled.

But very young top 10 picks at qb get "coddled.”  I don’t mean that in the negative sense.  What I mean...every decision is about maximizing their chance for success.  Who fits best with them, how can we adjust our competitive horizon to fit theirs, how can we maximize their protection, etc etc.

That ship has sailed on Wentz.  It’s time to look past him.  If he rights the ship, great...but a lot of that is on him now.  It should no longer be the sole purpose of the franchise to build around and fix Wentz.  Move forward...if HE figures it out, great.  

The only thing Wentz needs to clean up is his comfort in the system and the players around him

Full stop

The team could go a long way to helping this renaissance by actually keeping the same group of players around him in literally any capacity.   But they wont because theyre a bunch of morons who are about to get fired

52 minutes ago, RLC said:

Any plan that involves cutting/trading Brooks/Lane I'm out on.

People are criticizing the OL all year. Wentz is a mess and Hurts is in year 2. You want to put either guy behind bad OL next year? No thank you. You can gut the entire defense if you want, but there's nothing more important than the QB. Fixing Wentz/Developing Hurts is our #1 priority and that starts with the OL.

I agree 100% with this.  Which is why they need to fix it... not continue to place band-aids on it.   And at this point in time, Brooks and Johnson are not long term solutions.   And they need to stop the half-measure fixes with the likes of an ancient Jason Peters, a never was Jamon Brown, a regrettably regressed Matt Pryor.

 

The major issues with the OL have been the carousel of juggling guys back and forth, in and out of the lineup.  Continuity is the single most important factor on the OL.  Brooks and Johnson might be good to go Game 1, but what about Game 3, Game 7, Game 9, Game 12?   Are they reliable?  I don't think so.  Let the OL settle in... starting now.  Mailata-Seumalo-Kelce-Herbig-Driscoll... let them work together, let them gel.   If there's an OL to add in the draft, absolutely do so, but counting on Brooks and Johnson next year is pretty much the same as counting on Desean and Alshon this year at WR.  Wasted roster space and took reps away from the guys who are actually going to be playing the majority of the games.   

 

I know its not popular to move on from vets like them that have been so good for so long... but that's the issue... its been so long.  Their time has passed.   I can see continuing with them for 2021... but the succession plan needs to be in place immediately for 2022.  Because, there's virtually no chance that they both make it through the 2021 and 2022 season... and then its retirement.

8 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Foles was, without question, a better QB in this system.  If you can't comprehend that, you probably shouldn't post much in this blog because your knowledge of football is at a casual-fan level. (If that).

And call me what you will, getting called an "idiot" from someone like you is actually a compliment.  Cheers.

 

 

Yeah the system with a great running game, OL, defense, and skill players making huge plays all over the field

Lets try Wentz in that system too

5 minutes ago, phil77 said:

 

D

B

Poison

56 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I like it.

I’d try and trade malik Jackson before cutting him. I think he’s had a solid season and i could see a team that is a contender willing to deal you a 5-6th rounder for a DT who they’d get on a decent contract for a year or two or restructure his contract. If you cut him they would have to likely have multiple teams they are competing with. I think he has trade value. Not great value but some. 

as for lane it is tough. He is 30 going on 31. I agree his body is deteriorating on him. His contract is also basically tough on the eagles through 2022. While howie deserves a lot of blame i can’t blame him on this most would’ve done this. He was 28/29 in his prime and while some nagging injuries he was playing at an elite level. Probably thought at 32 he would start the exiting of his prime. Not at 30. He likely imo only has 2 years left. However have a hard time seeing a team trading for him right now knowing three consecutive years he’s had an injury where he’s missed time. Likely at most only get a mid-late round pick. I get mailata needs to play however I’m not sold on dillard being able to play. I rather keep lane for what’s likely offered and make sure dillard isn’t a bust of a pick. Let mailata and dillard compete for the LT job. And if dillard proves himself at the trade deadline if lane proves himself you can make a decision to deal him and likely get better value. 

not included in this, i actually think kelce is going to retire. Don’t have any info just a gut feeling. If we were closer to being a title contender i think he would gut out another year. But since i think we are far away and if we moving on to an entirely new coach i think he calls it quits. 

I agree.  But, I don't know the cap ramifications for him, so I didn't include it.  

I don't like a lot of what I proposed, but this team needs to make the tough decisions that Howie and Co. have avoided like the plague since the Super Bowl.   Peters, Sproles, Desean, Alshon... none of them should have been brought back.  But, they brought them back and gave them big money... pushed the money forward, forcing the team to hold on to them rather than get younger... and that's the microcosm of why the Eagles are where they are right now.

5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Jesus this mechanics nonsense is going to drive me insane

Im about 1:30 minutes into your clip and Foles has made a total of 1 throw with "proper" footwork as you described.

On almost every single throw, hos front foot is not pointing to the target.  

 

You need to watch it again.  Because you are 100% wrong.

His front foot is facing forward, NOT SIDEWAYS, on almost every single throw.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

It’s hard for any QB to perform well if he’s getting his brains beat in routinely. Can’t stomach watching Matt Pryor, Jamon Brown, etc... take turns doing s*** jobs. I’d keep both of them until we find more than an adequate replacement.

They have better replacements already on the team and they are on the field now... finally.  Herbig and Driscoll at RG and RT is far better than any combination of Peters, Brown and Pryor.  None of them should be on the roster now, let alone next year.

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Foles was, without question, a better QB in this system.  If you can't comprehend that, you probably shouldn't post much in this blog because your knowledge of football is at a casual-fan level. (If that).

And call me what you will, getting called an "idiot" from someone like you is actually a compliment.  Cheers.

 

 

What system? This system is hot garbage, in case you haven't noticed. Let's look:

2017

Foles - 2-1 record, 57/101 for 56.4%, 537 yards, 5 TDs, 2 INTs, 5.3 YPA

Wentz - 11-2 record, 265/440 for 60.2%, 3296 yards, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 7.5 YPA

2018 

Foles - 4-1 record, 141/195 for 72.3%, 1413 yards, 7 TDs 4 INTs, 7.2 YPA

Wentz - 5-6 record, 279/401 for 69.6%, 3074 yards, 21 TDs, 7 INTs, 7.7 YPA

 

So in total, Foles was 6-2, 198/296, 67%, 1950 yard, 12 TDs, 6 INTs, 6.59 YPA, averaging 243 yards per game, 1.5 TDs per game

Wentz - 16-8, 544/841, 65%, 6,370 yards, 54 TDs, 14 INTs, 7.57 YPA; averaging 265 yards per game and 2.25 TDs 

 

This isn't even taking into account Wentz's 300 yards rushing in 2017. So tell me how Foles is better? 

52 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Have to take the risk of a healthy Mailata/Dillard-Seumalo-Kelce-Brooks-Johnson for 2021.  There isn’t enough talent to backfill yet 

I can live with that.  But, the priority needs to be on getting the young guys in place behind them and getting them REPS.  Even something like splitting 1st team reps in practice with the backups... under the guise of 'load management' for the aging-oft-injured folks.

25 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

What a ridiculous take. Nobody thinks benching him will ruin his career. Your argument was that Foles and Hurts are better than him. Which they aren't. Which is why people think you're an idiot. Wentz has been bad this year, there's no debating that. Foles' faults have been exhausted in this blog, but you ignore them. Now you have Hurts to latch onto, and in time, his faults will be expounded on. And so on, until they draft another backup QB for you to get hard over. You absolutely, without question have an axe to grind with Wentz, and denying it makes you look even dumber than most of us already thought you were. 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

You need to watch it again.  Because you are 100% wrong.

His front foot is facing forward, NOT SIDEWAYS, on almost every single throw.

 

 

False, his feet look very similar to the screenshot you posted of Wentz, because in the real world the progressions are made faster than a human can change the orientation of their entire body.

Only on big downfield throws does that stuff really matter much, and even then most NFL QBs' arms are so strong it doesnt matter

This isnt PeeWee football, these guys have lasers for arms.

IMO 99% of Wentz' inaccuracy comes from discomfort in the play, concern about his protection, a receiver not being in the right place, or a combination of those three things. Its not as simple as mechanics no matter how many armchair QBs say otherwise

Why dont you go back to 2017 and show me his highlights where he has this great form.  It doesnt exist, hes been the same type of player here, its the offense, coaching, and personnel around him that have changed perpetually

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I agree.  But, I don't know the cap ramifications for him, so I didn't include it.  

I don't like a lot of what I proposed, but this team needs to make the tough decisions that Howie and Co. have avoided like the plague since the Super Bowl.   Peters, Sproles, Desean, Alshon... none of them should have been brought back.  But, they brought them back and gave them big money... pushed the money forward, forcing the team to hold on to them rather than get younger... and that's the microcosm of why the Eagles are where they are right now.

Trust me I don’t like a lot of it either. I actually brought this up last year at the end of the year even after they won games that that should’ve been thinking about making some of these moves because I didn’t think they were good enough to compete for a Super Bowl with the roster as constructed. I thought they were at the end of their era. And they didn’t have enough youth injected into the team to have a smooth transition from the end of this era of Eagles football to the next one where you’re building a Super Bowl contender.

That said I was looking in the lane’s  contract two days ago and that one is so hard for them to do anything with that is considered good. Everything pre-June first doesn’t help you. Cut or trade it’s not great. After June 1st some but it’s also not great.

I blame howie for a lot of things but that contract/restructure I could understand. It made sense as he was in his prime and likely in it for 3-4 more years and at worst three and that contract doesn’t look that bad considering he was in his prime and playing in an elite level. It looks worse now because of everything that’s happened since they did that. I’m really not sure anybody could’ve predicted what has happened to lane over the last two years.