2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup. I'd guess most those plays are coming against 4 man rushes with 7 in coverage as well?

If one is continually going to rush 4 and drop 7 then the rush better get there cuz guys can only cover for so long.

Schwartz defense is so predictable and vanilla and when he decides to blitz those are telegraphed and predictable as well.

Schwartz while thing is rush 4 drop 7 stop the run and limit the big play, when one is dropping 7 and still giving up big plays something is wrong.

Doesn't help when the only competent player in the back 7 in Slay is struggling hobbling around getting burnt all game.

I know one drive was the nick chubb big run and wasn’t dropping 7. But otherwise yeah it’s been times when they aren’t in base and rushing only 4. 

the fact the packers went 7 plays 82 yard for a td and the very next possession got pinned at the 1 and then went 99 yards on 7 plays got another td. So basically 14 points per 14 plays. It’s a point per play over two possessions. 

2 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

Disagree with last part. Lane was still terrific when he played this year. And while I get they are in their 30’s that isn’t a death sentence for athletes anymore. If Brooks & Johnson performed like Jackson and Jeffrey.... sure get rid of them. Also understand "well they get hurt”, but again who on our current roster doesn’t? The younger guys get hurt just as much as the old men if not more. Plus, we all know how important Oline is ... if we get a great offer sure I’d entertain it. But, I’m not trading those guys for some mid rd draft pick. Just can’t do it. 

Lane was terrific until he wasn't, and the injury got the best of him.  He then became terrible (watch his last game) and had to be shut down.  And the description of his ankle being 'collapsed' isn't exactly encouraging for a complete and full recovery.

The older these guys get, the more likely they are to be injured.  Football is a 100% injury sport, everyone and anyone can get hurt on any given play.  However, as players get older, as their bodies are dealing with the accumulation of damage, they are more prone to injuries, some nagging, some more catastrophic, and it takes longer to recover from injury as they age as well, both in season and from major surgeries.

 

I agree that OL is extremely important, and it would be Phase 1 of the rebuild.  But, I think you are missing the point on the trades, I proposed.  The trades are not being made to get back some mid-round draft pick.  The trades I proposed were to get out from under their contracts and free up money to be able to fix the OL for real, and the rest of the roster.  It's not about the draft pick, its about the albatross contracts that Howie handed out.  2021 is going to be a mess no matter how it's sliced.  But, prioritizing OL for YOUNG players to step up would go a long way to fixing the whole offense quickly.  

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Why.  He did not play well in those games.

Carson Wentz, who you say is playing like the worst QB in the NFL has a QBR of 49.2.

Nick Foles v Saints in playoff game referenced had a QBR of 42.4

Nick Foles v Falcons in playoff game referenced had a QBR of 45.8

This must be why you did not want to respond.

 

 

We can go by QBR if you'd like, np.

What was Foles' QBR in the rest of the playoff games and the Super Bowl?

10 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Right. Because I haven't literally said," They all share the blame" repeatedly in this thread.  As in just about every conversation I've had on the subject. 

The difference is that you all seem to think it's 90% Pederson/Howie and I think it's much more balanced than that and we can get a better understanding of how much it's Wentz, how much it's Pederson and how much it's the other players (aka Howie) if and when we play another QB in the system. 

Call somebody out for saying they all share the blame. Meanwhile me writes MULTIPLE times to you over months of time that doug and wentz are both 50% of the blame. Amazing the narratives you construct to make your lame arguments. 

 You last resort after 5 to 10 post then say it even though you don’t believe it based off posts later in the day or even the next couple days.  This is the same thing I called you out about about a month and a half ago where you say things just because you’re pandering to people. Because anybody who reads your stuff knows you’re full of crap. you write what you actually feel and come back to I said this because you were pandering to someone because you didn’t wanna have the argument anymore. Because everything you write is a deflection of everyone else but Carson Wentz. Perfect example Jalen Reagor response you had last night  

That is obvious to everyone in the blog except for you. Maybe it’s you and not everyone else. 

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

8 years later and the "Foles vs x" debate rages on. My god. 

I knew I shouldn't have posted that video in reference to mechanics in this thread (which is steadily becoming the official "Wentz apologist" thread of the EMB).

I could have posted almost any other video of a QB demonstrating good mechanics and I posted that.  Why? Why? (As I facepalm myself)  

Foles was comfortable here b/c he was surrounded by talent.

Ajayi, Blount, Clement, Jeffrey, Smith, Agholor, Ertz, Burton, Celek

Vaitai - Wisniewski - Kelce - Brooks - Lane, not elite but solid with only one weak spot that could be protected (Vaitai) and a good run blocking unit

With Jeffrey and Ertz he had big, reliable veteran targets.

Put Foles on THIS team, he'd look worse than he does in Chicago, with Allen Robinson, Miller, Mooney and Jimmy Graham.

He's got a QBR this season of 43.9, Wentz 49.2 in a worse situation.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Lane was terrific until he wasn't, and the injury got the best of him.  He then became terrible (watch his last game) and had to be shut down.  And the description of his ankle being 'collapsed' isn't exactly encouraging for a complete and full recovery.

The older these guys get, the more likely they are to be injured.  Football is a 100% injury sport, everyone and anyone can get hurt on any given play.  However, as players get older, as their bodies are dealing with the accumulation of damage, they are more prone to injuries, some nagging, some more catastrophic, and it takes longer to recover from injury as they age as well, both in season and from major surgeries.

 

I agree that OL is extremely important, and it would be Phase 1 of the rebuild.  But, I think you are missing the point on the trades, I proposed.  The trades are not being made to get back some mid-round draft pick.  The trades I proposed were to get out from under their contracts and free up money to be able to fix the OL for real, and the rest of the roster.  It's not about the draft pick, its about the albatross contracts that Howie handed out.  2021 is going to be a mess no matter how it's sliced.  But, prioritizing OL for YOUNG players to step up would go a long way to fixing the whole offense quickly.  

I get your point and if we got a good offer I’d consider it considering where we are as a team. I’m just not in favor of putting JAG’s on the Oline. We’ve put plenty of young guys out there this year that look just like that to me. 

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

So if you're looking toward 2021, first thing is to fix the OL, changing QBs when you haven't fixed this mess is a waste of time. Which is why you keep Brooks and Lane, the cap savings don't justify thinning out OL depth. This allows you to work in your young OL and transition to 2022 when Kelce, Brooks and Lane, or 2 of 3, are probably gone.

It is a risk to turn it over to the young guys without Brooks and Lane.  Then again, there's risk in expecting them both back in time.   Having them does improve our depth though, certainly.   And the proposals I suggested were to start a conversation... and to move away from the constant Wentz/Hurts and 'who's more to blame' debates... which I am glad to say it has done in part.  Though, somehow, someway, some people have turned this into a Foles discussion again.  

 

Anyway, I'd love to have Brooks and Johnson back at their peak levels.   But, at the same time, I do not want to have happen with them, what has happened to this team and Peters.  This team would have been smart to move on from Peters right after the Super Bowl.  But loyalty, comfort and looking backwards, rather than forward led to his return in 2018... then again in 2019... and then even again in 2020. 

12 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Who could’ve saw that coming relying on 3 rookie WRs, JJAW, Ward and desean to start the year during a pandemic offseason... 

Robbie Anderson stings...instead we got an overpaid underperforming DT.

thanks Howie.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I know one drive was the nick chubb big run and wasn’t dropping 7. But otherwise yeah it’s been times when they aren’t in base and rushing only 4. 

the fact the packers went 7 plays 82 yard for a td and the very next possession got pinned at the 1 and then went 99 yards on 7 plays got another td. So basically 14 points per 14 plays. It’s a point per play over two possessions. 

I remember thinking after eagles downed that punt at the 2 thinking Rodgers is going to drop a bomb and sure enough two corners on the play one played the ball, slay , missed it and maddox played the player.

There are so many instances when a defender is just trailing blindly running towards a player with zero regard for where the ball is.

Earlier in the year there were two times I can remember in red zone a LB turning and running at a mad sprint with back to qb and ball towards the offensive players.

Once it was gerry the other riley, both times identical plays both for tds and both times they were almost comically bad if they weren't so sad, when I saw it happen twice with two different players I thought this isn't players being totally stupid and unaware this is players actually being taught and coached to do that.

It's embarrassing and is a direct result of only having 6 int in 22 games which is pathetic

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

We can go by QBR if you'd like, np.

What was Foles' QBR in the rest of the playoff games and the Super Bowl?

84.9 in the Superbowl.  Carson Wentz had a higher QBR 89.7 this year against the 11-1 Steelers.  What is your point ??

Our point is, you are putting all the success squarely on the shoulders of Nick Foles, when the defense had a lot to do with getting us to the Superbowl.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Call somebody out for saying they all share the blame. Meanwhile me writes MULTIPLE times to you over months of time that doug and wentz are both 50% of the blame. Amazing the narratives you construct to make your lame arguments. 

 You last resort after 5 to 10 post then say it even though you don’t believe it based off posts later in the day or even the next couple days.  This is the same thing I called you out about about a month and a half ago where you say things just because you’re pandering to people. Because anybody who reads your stuff knows you’re full of crap. you write what you actually feel and come back to I said this because you were pandering to someone because you didn’t wanna have the argument anymore. Because everything you write is a deflection of everyone else but Carson Wentz.

That is obvious to everyone in the blog except for you. Maybe it’s you and not everyone else. 

Yeah, no.

I guess I need to post a disclaimer above all my posts in this thread stating that they likely all share the blame because saying it on "repeat mode" apparently isn't enough.

 

1 hour ago, TorontoEagle said:

You wouldn't be willing to see if he can be fixed with a different coaching staff? He has demonstrated the ability to be an elite QB before, and while he may not be able to do it again, with his contract as it is, I think we have no choice but to see if another coach can "fix" him. 

Of course I would.  My main point is that I'm not willing to slow down the rebuild just to fix him.

If Desean Jackson were healthy late in the year, I wouldn't play him just because he and Wentz have pretty good downfield chemistry.  I wouldn't keep an overpriced OL or TE (Ertz) just because Wentz is more comfortable with him.  

That's not the priority anymore.

When you draft a QB top 5, until he proves otherwise over 1-2 years, you assume he's the franchise and plan accordingly.  Wentz has proven otherwise, so the onus is on him to show he can be the franchise again.  Until that happens, they should be looking ahead of him.

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

I knew I shouldn't have posted that video in reference to mechanics in this thread (which is steadily becoming the official "Wentz apologist" thread of the EMB).

I could have posted almost any other video of a QB demonstrating good mechanics and I posted that.  Why? Why? (As I facepalm myself)  

Why do you not understand what people are writing? Nobody is absolving Wentz of anything. He's been awful this year. It's not even up for debate, and nobody is trying to debate it. 

 

But your Foles love is something else. Lemme ask you something....Nagy, the coach of the Chicago Bears, comes from the same coaching tree as our very own head coach. The Bears offense looks almost as bad as ours does. IN FACT, Foles was so bad, he lost the starting job to Mitchell Trubisky of all people. So, why isn't Foles succeeding in Chicago? 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

84.9 in the Superbowl.  Carson Wentz had a higher QBR 89.7 this year against the 11-1 Steelers.  What is your point ??

 

Regular season game that they lost vs the Super Bowl that they won. 

When did the mechanic issue really start and be such an issue every game?  Watching some of last year during the run at the end I didn't see so many issues as this year?   

 

So the question is are the mechanical issues a result of poor offensive line play and being hit so many times?  Is it a result of poor route running and WRs not being open all the time or even where they should be all the time?  Is it a result of Wentz just not working hard on his mechanics (we been told over and over again that Wentz works hard in practice)?  Are they not working on any mechanical issues during practice?   Is all that practice just out the window when he gets hit so often?  

A passing play especially timing plays require so many things to happen and every to be on the same page....

OL needs to hold up for the amount of time the play needs to develop.  Quick reads require less longer reads require more.  Sometimes the line holds up and sometimes it doesn't there is no consistant good play here it is hit or miss every play so a QB never knows what to expect. 

WR needs to run the correct route and break at the correct time.  This happens sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.  We have seen so many times where Wentz throws it one way and the WR goes the other way.  This is happening too often and not just with the rookie WRs.  I have seen it happen with Ertz and Goodert as well how Wentz has played with and has chemistry with so why?  Is this why Alshon is playing over Fulgham?  Why Fulgham is the better talent is Alshon more reliable for Wentz to be where he is suppose to be?  

Playcalling the play calling should be creative and building on itself.  Doug seems to have lost that totally and we are not calling anything that tricks the defense or puts the defense on its heals.  Our offense is stale and not changing.  

QB needs to not worry about the things above and deliver the ball on time and accurate.  If the QB is worried about being hit or if his WR will come open or go the correct way then there will be hesitation and the QB will not deliever the ball and end up either playing hero ball or taking a sack.  

It is a combo of these four things that have Wentz and the offense regressing.  I think Hurts will be better in the short term because he hasn't taken the beating behind the OL all season like Wentz so he is more incline to stand and deliever.  

A player especially at the QB positions doesn't go 2017 - Best QB in NFL  2018 - Solid QB play  2019 - Solid QB play  2020 - Worst QB in NFL   That is historic and doesn't happen which is why so many posters are searching for reasons why or excuses as some put it because it usually doesn't happen in the NFL.  So why did it suddenly happen to our QB?  

Question for the Blog: Do the Eagles prioritize OL help in the 2021 draft, or is it a matter of evaluating what they already have on the roster? Dillard or Mailata at LT? Driscoll's best fit? Can Prince be a viable RT or swing tackle? Does Issac move to C?

Not sure Sewell will fall to the Eagles at 5 or 6, but their should be quality OL in the tops of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Should the Eagles prioritize OL there over other important positions of need? Most notably, there will be good LB/CB/S prospects in those spots.

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

I remember thinking after eagles downed that punt at the 2 thinking Rodgers is going to drop a bomb and sure enough two corners on the play one played the ball, slay , missed it and maddox played the player.

There are so many instances when a defender is just trailing blindly running towards a player with zero regard for where the ball is.

Earlier in the year there were two times I can remember in red zone a LB turning and running at a mad sprint with back to qb and ball towards the offensive players.

Once it was gerry the other riley, both times identical plays both for tds and both times they were almost comically bad if they weren't so sad, when I saw it happen twice with two different players I thought this isn't players being totally stupid and unaware this is players actually being taught and coached to do that.

It's embarrassing and is a direct result of only having 6 int in 22 games which is pathetic

I like Singleton but he really didn’t have that game. When you go back and watch it on that 77 yard touchdown line he got sucked in and was beaten badly on the play. Hargrave actually got good penetration and just outran the play. He also was caught looking in the backfield on the tonyan td. He and edwards were burned on the Mercedes Lewis reception. Badly too. He was good most of the game against the run. But he was bad on three big time plays in that game. 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Of course I would.  My main point is that I'm not willing to slow down the rebuild just to fix him.

If Desean Jackson were healthy late in the year, I wouldn't play him just because he and Wentz have pretty good downfield chemistry.  I wouldn't keep an overpriced OL or TE (Ertz) just because Wentz is more comfortable with him.  

That's not the priority anymore.

When you draft a QB top 5, until he proves otherwise over 1-2 years, you assume he's the franchise and plan accordingly.  Wentz has proven otherwise, so the onus is on him to show he can be the franchise again.  Until that happens, they should be looking ahead of him.

That's fair. Do you think it's wise to put Wentz back in as the starter for the rest of this year? Do you think there's anything to gain by that? 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

But your Foles love is something else. Lemme ask you something....Nagy, the coach of the Chicago Bears, comes from the same coaching tree as our very own head coach. The Bears offense looks almost as bad as ours does. IN FACT, Foles was so bad, he lost the starting job to Mitchell Trubisky of all people. So, why isn't Foles succeeding in Chicago? 

I honestly don't know.  Contrary to popular belief, I haven't been watching much of the Bears this year.

I'll readily admit that if I don't know much about a subject, that I don't have an answer.  If most of the people that defend Wentz could say the same, the discussions in this blog would be much more enlightening, imo. 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

So you're admitting QB is just one piece of a major puzzle. Weird

 

Of course it is.

 

Just now, Iggles25 said:

Question for the Blog: Do the Eagles prioritize OL help in the 2021 draft, or is it a matter of evaluating what they already have on the roster? Dillard or Mailata at LT? Driscoll's best fit? Can Prince be a viable RT or swing tackle? Does Issac move to C?

Not sure Sewell will fall to the Eagles at 5 or 6, but their should be quality OL in the tops of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Should the Eagles prioritize OL there over other important positions of need? Most notably, there will be good LB/CB/S prospects in those spots.

The Eagles could probably do better at LT than Mailata and/or Dillard -- and Sewell has all the tools to do that

The Eagles almost couldn't do worse than Mills and Maddox in the secondary, and they cost the Eagles games by being starters 

JMO

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

 

like I said, if you had 100% of blame to hand out. Wentz gets the least of that pie and it's not even close

I've never "hated Wentz".

And we disagree. 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

If Wentz plays average this year, we're what....6-6? This is not a bottom 10 roster. This is a team that is killed by historically bad QB play. 

And so goes the cycle of chicken and egg.

We've got one group that says the Eagles ruined Wentz.  We've got another that said the Eagles aren't THAT bad and Wentz is making everyone worse.

And I think BOTH groups are RIGHT.

I said it 2 years ago.  I said it 2 year ago.  I said it this offseason.  I said it early this year.  You can't ask a QB to scrape by purely by throwing in the middle of the field to TEs in tight coverage, run around to by time, and riffle telegraphed single reads to guys with no separation.  If you ask him to do that during the formative years of his development, then he will NOT be able to flip a switch and conduct a beautiful orchestra when you DO get him weapons.  It just doesn't work that way.  

They coached bad habits into him, made him forget how to work the pocket and work his deeper reads...and now that they actually do have some improved weapons, he is the one who can't find them and pull the trigger.

There is no mystery here.  The Eagles did this to Wentz and now he's paying it forward to them.

4 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Yeah, no.

I guess I need to post a disclaimer above all my posts in this thread stating that they likely all share the blame because saying it on "repeat mode" apparently isn't enough.

 

Uuuhhh yeah actually.

Lmao. Dude you playing the victim here is absurd. You basically call people out for defending wentz to no defense and you do the identical thing and try to pretend you didn’t. Literally i will crush wentz in my GBU and doug. You crush wentz but then claim you say well i said doug does. But yet you give no examples. People have to drill you on it and then you concede. It’s never you bringing it up. It’s you always deflecting towards wentz. 

it’s definitely true. You just are in complete denial of your actions which is hilarious. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Uuuhhh yeah actually.

Lmao. Dude you playing the victim here is absurd. You basically call people out for defending wentz to no defense and you do the identical thing and try to pretend you didn’t. Literally i will crush wentz in my GBU and doug. You crush wentz but then claim you say well i said doug does. But yet you give no examples. People have to drill you on it and then you concede. It’s never you bringing it up. It’s you always deflecting towards wentz. 

it’s definitely true. You just are in complete denial of your actions which is hilarious. 

Wrong.