1 minute ago, hputenis said:

I'd understand if some of the locker room likes Hurts and has his back (based on articles about this being a huge strength of his), but why would anyone have Doug P's back at this point?  He's setting this offense up to fail week in and week out.  Some of these clips looks like these guys don't even practice.......at all.  This past week it almost looked like he was doing it on purpose.  I can't go that far yet, but if the reports are true and he wants out, I would have no interest in playing in this offense.  

I think any Eagles player who watches the opposing offenses during each and every game says to themselves "why are we running high school concepts when other teams have professional plays?”

They’ll support the head coach publicly but they have to know the entire offense and scheme is junk 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I think any Eagles player who watches the opposing offenses during each and every game says to themselves "why are we running high school concepts when other teams have professional plays?”

They’ll support the head coach publicly but they have to know the entire offense and scheme is junk 

You don't have to be an NFL coach to see how lame our offensive game plan is.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And there is the kiss of death from the biggest idiot covering the Eagles.

 

Ugh. He really does tweet just to get hits, doesn't he?

4 minutes ago, bbabraham said:

Last week I made pizza for the first time, including the dough. It was fantastic! I bought a pizza stone to get that good bottom heat, plus my oven has a pizza mode that only heats from the bottom. I've made more dough tonight that I'm leaving overnight, to have pizza tomorrow night.

Oh yeah!   Homemade pizza is great.   Piece of advice: if you want more of the authentic pizzeria experience... you have to go with the FULL FAT low moisture mozzarella.  

What am I missing with the Carson Wentz apologist stuff? He’s been a bottom-3 starting QB in the NFL this season. Something had to change.

More importantly, the Eagles may be drafting in a spot where QB is an option. We have to see if Hurts is any good.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And there is the kiss of death from the biggest idiot covering the Eagles.

 

He just needs to vindicate his anti Wentz narrative.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And there is the kiss of death from the biggest idiot covering the Eagles.

 

I have a gut feeling the Eagles win Sunday. Don’t get me wrong, I hope they lose for draft positioning. Just a gut feeling.

Just a slot receiver though.

 

1 minute ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

I have a gut feeling the Eagles win Sunday. Don’t get me wrong, I hope they lose for draft positioning. Just a gut feeling.

Not gonna happen no matter who the QB is.  Dennis Allen is going to wreck our offensive line.

The only guarantee I would make this weekend is Hurts has more rushing yards then passing yards, he is gonna be running for his life.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh yeah!   Homemade pizza is great.   Piece of advice: if you want more of the authentic pizzeria experience... you have to go with the FULL FAT low moisture mozzarella.  

If you want to do Neapolitan style, get the buffalo mozzarella, peel off the skin, and put the cold cheese on the hot pizza.

39 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

In other news... wife made chocolate chip cookies last night... the best ever.     

 

She uses bread flour and melted butter.... which leads to gluten production in the flour and the chewiest cookies there are.  She even takes them out of the oven just a little early, and they stay soft and moist for as long as they last... about 2 days around here...

 

Well thanks for sharing the cookies with us.... i blame mcnabb for you not sharing them. 

19 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Fletch is a 9 year veteran of the team and he's played with Wentz for 5 years.  It was also recently reported that he talked to Wentz (during a flight home from a game maybe?) and I guess it was a "I've got your back, you can do it" type of talk.  (Total guess).   So it's not surprising Wentz is "his guy".  Wentz should be most of the team's guy as the franchise QB and as a leader. 

But unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case if Fletch felt the need to show publicly  that he supports Wentz.  That leads me to believe there may be a good portion of players that will back up Hurts/Pederson, etc. (That was actually reported a while ago).   So yep, looks like we may have a QB controversy after all. 

The fact Clowney cheap-shotted Wentz in the playoff game and no one cared told you all you need to know.

I’m not "anti-Wentz.” I just have eyes.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Just a slot receiver though.

 

People need to stop sharing Jefferson stats... I'm depressed enough already.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And there is the kiss of death from the biggest idiot covering the Eagles.

 

I hope he does well because he's an Eagle. I think he'll get hit a bunch and probably throw a pick or 2

Hopefully we don't ruin some rookie because he was thrown into this mess

I want pick 5 or 4 if we can get it. I hate the Saints though so... 

Do we mess up our draft if we get another tie?

9 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And there is the kiss of death from the biggest idiot covering the Eagles.

 

I thought the rule was we don’t post ESP on here anymore. 

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No.  You put the slow guy in the clear and the fast guy running come backs...  and the guy who can't put a move on a corpse is the guy you put back for punts and runs the flanker screens.

8 minutes ago, bbabraham said:

Last week I made pizza for the first time, including the dough. It was fantastic! I bought a pizza stone to get that good bottom heat, plus my oven has a pizza mode that only heats from the bottom. I've made more dough tonight that I'm leaving overnight, to have pizza tomorrow night.

My wife's uncle has one of those outdoor wood-fire brick pizza ovens that gets up to about 650 degrees.  If we go over there, we pick out our ingredients and make our own pizzas (he has fresh basil growing in his backyard), throw them in that oven for maybe 60-70 seconds, and it's some of the best thin crust pizza I've ever had. 

If I had one of those in my backyard, I'd be the fattest bastid in Mint Hill, NC. 

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I hope he does well because he's an Eagle. I think he'll get hit a bunch and probably throw a pick or 2

Hopefully we don't ruin some rookie because he was thrown into this mess

I want pick 5 or 4 if we can get it. I hate the Saints though so... 

Do we mess up our draft if we get another tie?

Anything that is not a loss jeopardizes a top 5 pick.

2 wins the rest of the way could move us out of the top 10.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I thought the rule was we don’t post ESP on here anymore. 

You can add Kempski to the list as far as I'm concerned.

Just now, Desertbirds said:

You can add Kempski to the list as far as I'm concerned.

He occasionally has some good stick figures. 

sheil had a good article on the athletic. I’ll try to copy and post it. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Anything that is not a loss jeopardizes a top 5 pick.

2 wins the rest of the way could move us out of the top 10.

Damn. Going to need a lot of liquor to get through this game

F the Saints but I want that top 5 pick

Sheil’s article on the athletic 

The Eagles sent out a tweet Tuesday afternoon announcing they are going to start Jalen Hurts at quarterback in Week 14 against the Saints. That also means, of course, they are benching Carson Wentz just 18 months after signing him to a $128 million extension.

The move raises questions about the Eagles’ future at quarterback. We know Hurts will start Sunday, but we don’t know much beyond that. Has Wentz played his last game in an Eagles uniform? What are the chances that Hurts plays well? Who’s the likely starter in 2021?

Below is an attempt to answer the key questions surrounding the Eagles’ move.

1. Why are the Eagles making this move now?

The quarterback switch is about a few different things. Wentz has looked broken all season. He’s been uncomfortable in the pocket. He’s not seeing the field well. He’s been hesitant to pull the trigger when he’s had opportunities. And he leads the NFL with 19 turnovers. The Eagles’ coaching staff has had 13 weeks to try and figure out solutions to help Wentz, and they’ve come up empty. Wentz ranks 27th in QBR, and the passing game ranks 31st in DVOA. There was no benefit to just sending him out there every week to fail. The Eagles pulled Wentz in favor of Hurts in their Week 13 loss to the Packers, and now they will get a look at the player general manager Howie Roseman selected in the second round of April’s draft.

2. What are fair expectations for Hurts?

To view Hurts as the Eagles’ likely quarterback of the future would be a mistake. The most likely scenario is that Hurts is not the long-term answer. That’s not me being harsh and counting a guy out before he even starts a game. That’s just what history tells us. From 2008 to 2017 (I’m using this range so that we get at least three full years of each player), 24 quarterbacks were taken on Day 2 of the draft. Among that group, six became starters: Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Colin Kaepernick, Nick Foles, Andy Dalton and Jimmy Garoppolo. This is not complex math, but we can say that the chances based on that sample of finding a starter in the second or third round is roughly 25 percent.

If we include backups, we can add Chad Henne, Jacoby Brissett and Colt McCoy. So the chances of finding a starter or backup are roughly 41.2 percent. It’s still more likely a team ends up with a quarterback who turns into neither of those things. There are always exceptions, but those are the rough odds.

Maybe Hurts lights it up and shows real potential as a starter. Maybe he’s OK and looks like he’ll be fine as a backup. Maybe he’s a complete disaster. The one thing the Eagles cannot do is convince themselves that Hurts is the guy after a four-game sample. The goal here should just be information gathering. It’s possible they learn that the offensive system and surrounding talent aren’t the problem, and the issues were even more Wentz-related than suspected. It’s also possible they discover the offensive system and surrounding talent are the problem, and it doesn’t really matter who’s playing quarterback.

Given that Hurts had a shortened offseason and no preseason, I would expect that we’d see a heavy QB-inclusive run game and a simplified passing game in which he’s encouraged to take off if he doesn’t like what he sees.

3. Is there a chance Wentz comes back as the starter this season?

Sure. In 2008, then-Eagles coach Andy Reid benched Donovan McNabb for Kevin Kolb in the second half of a game in Baltimore. Kolb played poorly, Reid came back to McNabb, and the Eagles went to the NFC Championship Game. That scenario is not going to repeat because the Eagles aren’t going anywhere this season. But it’s possible that if Hurts struggles, the coaches convince themselves that Wentz has benefited from taking a step back, and he returns.

4. Given his contract, is Wentz tradable in the offseason?

Cutting Wentz is a non-starter, but trading him is possible and could make sense for the Eagles. As Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap.com explained, Wentz’s contract is not bad for interested teams that view him as a quality starter. The trading team would essentially be adding him on a four-year, $98.4 million deal with two years guaranteed. Per Fitzgerald, the cap figures would rank 11th and 13th among quarterbacks in 2021 and 2022, and the deal would be similar to the one Teddy Bridgewater signed with the Panthers last offseason.

5. What’s the case for trading Wentz?

There would be a few reasons to deal him. One would be that you’re convinced he is not going to be a top-tier quarterback again and that you could have better options. Even in 2018 and 2019, Wentz finished 12th and 11th, respectively, in QBR. Say that 2020 ends up being a terrible outlier, and he reverts to his past form. Is that really good enough to justify keeping him? You still have a quarterback with serious flaws. Wentz’s 58 fumbles since he entered the league in 2016 are 11 more than any other player. He’s consistently had accuracy issues. And he may have durability issues as well.

Another factor is where the Eagles are likely to be drafting. They have a 38.7 percent chance of landing a top-five draft pickand an 88.6 percent chance of landing a top-10 pick. When you’re drafting that high and don’t have a clear franchise quarterback on your roster, you have to consider picking one. There’s always going to be risk, but if the Eagles like the quarterbacks who are likely to be available to them in the first round, they have to consider moving on from Wentz. The bar doesn’t even have to be that high. They’d essentially be asking themselves: Do we feel good about this prospect’s chances of being a top-12 quarterback?

And then there’s the financial component. While the Eagles wouldn’t get much cap relief, they would potentially be saving $25.4 million in cash by not having to pay Wentz’s 2021 salary. The other big factor is that $15 million of Wentz’s 2022 base salary becomes guaranteed on the third day of the 2021 league year (March 19; the league year starts March 17). In other words, this is not a "let’s just see how he does in 2021 and go from there” type scenario. If you commit to Wentz in 2021, you are also committing to $15 million guaranteed in 2022. If you trade him, you have a chance to get out of that 2022 commitment.

6. Why would other teams be interested in trading for Wentz?

He’ll be just 28 at the start of next season, and the free-agent market for quarterbacks is not great. Assuming Dak Prescott goes back to Dallas, we’re talking about Cam Newton, Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett and Philip Rivers. It’s possible other options such as Matthew Stafford and Jimmy Garoppolo become available, but those players would require trade compensation just like Wentz would. As mentioned above, Wentz’s contract is not bad for a potential suitor that believes he can be a top 10 to top 15 quarterback.

In the past two weeks, broadcasters like Louis Riddick and Tony Romo have pointed out how the Eagles haven’t always put Wentz in the best situations. A few weeks ago, I wrote about how the 2020 offseason is shaping up to be a disaster. And really it goes back further than that. Roseman missed on second-round draft pick J.J. Arcega-Whiteside. He passed on Justin Jefferson in favor of Jalen Reagor. He chose not to trade for wide receivers such as DeAndre Hopkins and Stefon Diggs. He decided against pursuing someone like Robby Anderson in free agency. He drafted Hurts instead of addressing other weaknesses on the roster. And he handed out early extensions to aging offensive linemen. Every GM misses, but it’s been a bad run for Roseman since the Eagles won Super Bowl 52, and it’s impossible to look at a team like the Bills and not wonder how Wentz’s supporting cast could potentially look a lot different.

Then there’s the issue of coaching. Teams could watch the Eagles’ film and see how bad the screen game is. They could see wide receivers struggling to get off of press coverage. They could look at how often the Eagles run isolation routes in high-leverage situations and fail to scheme guys open. They could convince themselves that Wentz is fixable and projects as a classic change of scenery-type.

7. What would potential compensation look like?

This is a tricky question. Normally with trades, you can look at past deals and come up with an educated prediction. With Wentz, because of the unique circumstances, it’s not that straightforward. We can probably set the floor at the Foles deal last offseason. (How is it that we’re still coming back to Foles?) The Bears sent a fourth-round pick to the Jaguars for Foles.

In 2017, the 49ers traded a second-round pick to the Patriots for Garoppolo. On one hand, Garoppolo was on his rookie contract. On the other hand, he had started only two career games at that time.

In 2018, Washington sent a third-round pick and cornerback Kendall Fuller to the Chiefs for Alex Smith.

The compensation setup that probably makes the most sense is a deal that includes conditions based on Wentz’s performance. In this scenario, perhaps a suitor offers a second- or third-round pick. If Wentz plays a certain number of snaps or achieves a certain level of performance, perhaps the pick bumps up or the team throws in something else. Such a structure could be appealing for a team that wants to mitigate risk. It’s also possible a suitor would be interested in a deal that calls for the Eagles to pay some of Wentz’s remaining guarantees.

8. Which teams could potentially be interested?

This is where the last month of the season becomes interesting. If the Colts struggle down the stretch, would they think about reuniting Wentz with Frank Reich rather than signing Rivers, 39, for another year? Would Bill Belichick see Wentz as an attractive option if the Patriots move on from Newton? If Derek Carr stumbles and the Raiders miss the playoffs, would Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock get aggressive? Would Kyle Shanahan view Wentz as a significant upgrade over Garoppolo in San Francisco? What about the Broncos and John Elway? They appear to be in desperate need of a quarterback this offseason.

It could turn out that teams are scared off by Wentz’s season and want no part of him. But it could also turn out that some convince themselves that given his age and skill set, he’s an attractive option who’s been put in a bad situation and can still be salvaged.

Three things to remember here. One, it takes only one team. Two, most coaches have huge egos. If a coach thought highly of Wentz during the pre-draft process in 2016 or during his strong 2017 season, the coach could easily convince himself that he can fix Wentz. Remember, we live in a world where teams were convinced of Sam Bradford’s potential because of what they saw during a pro day five or six years earlier. And three, the timing is key. The Eagles would want to trade Wentz before his 2022 salary guarantee kicks in. This is not likely to be a situation where they could wait and see how the draft plays out or wait to see if another team’s starter suffers an injury in August. A trade would most likely have to happen during the first 48 hours of the league year in March.

9. What’s the case for the Eagles to keep Wentz?

There is no case for the Eagles running it back with Roseman, Pederson and Wentz. That simply cannot happen. Last offseason, owner Jeffrey Lurie and Roseman forced Pederson to make changes to his coaching staff and bring in new ideas. That has turned out to be a disaster. Making minor tweaks and hoping for the best would be a major mistake. Given Lurie’s long-held beliefthat offensive efficiency, and specifically passing efficiency, is the key to sustained success, it’s hard to imagine he’s going to settle on patience this offseason.

One option would be change the pieces around Wentz. But the roster that Roseman has built is not only old, expensive and bad, it also fails to allow for flexibility. The Eagles are in bad cap shape going into 2021. Put simply: There’s no clear avenue for them to significantly upgrade the talent around Wentz.

The more likely option that could result in the Eagles keeping Wentz would be a coaching change. It’d be no surprise to see Lurie part ways with Pederson and convince himself that a new coach can fix Wentz. Lurie has prioritized offense and the quarterback position with his past three hires: Andy Reid, Chip Kelly and Pederson. He is likely to do so again if he decides it’s time to move on. Given all that the Eagles have invested in Wentz, they might want to hang on to him until they’ve explored every possible option to get him right. The best outcome for the franchise is still for him to bounce back, play well and be the starter.

One thing to remember: Wentz’s floor this season is something we had not seen. In 2018 and 2019, he wasn’t great, but he was at least slightly above average. Getting the 2017 version of Wentz back is unlikely, but getting the 2018 or 2019 version is within the range of reasonable expected outcomes.

Maybe Hurts shows something down the stretch, and the Eagles go into 2021 with a new coach and Wentz and Hurts as their options at quarterback. This could be particularly intriguing if they don’t love the quarterbacks in the draft. Even if they get a top-10 pick, they could trade back, try to acquire additional picks in future years, buy time with Wentz and Hurts and revisit their quarterback situation in 2022.

10. So how will this all play out?

There are obviously a lot of variables to consider, but I think the most likely scenario is that the Eagles make a coaching change and see if the next coach can get more out of Wentz. I just go back to the past offseason. The Eagles had opportunities to make major changes to their offensive personnel, and they didn’t do so. Instead, Lurie and Roseman convinced Pederson to make changes to his staff. That tells us the owner thought coaching was more of an issue than personnel. Assuming Roseman remains the GM (I covered all of Lurie’s options here), it seems likely that Lurie will continue to view coaching as an issue. Obviously, if the Eagles get trade offers that are better than what I’ve projected above, that route could suddenly become really appealing. But the organization has a lot invested in Wentz. My sense is the Eagles will convince themselves they can find someone who can get him back on track in 2021

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Not gonna happen no matter who the QB is.  Dennis Allen is going to wreck our offensive line.

The only guarantee I would make this weekend is Hurts has more rushing yards then passing yards, he is gonna be running for his life.

Someone mentioned it a few pages back, but Malcolm Jenkins will probably know and diagnose every single offensive play of the game.  I don't care if he can't move or cover anymore.  The Saints defense will be in the perfect position on every snap Sunday.  

I would have laughed at this take a couple years ago (a player going to another team and giving them the playbook), but with the predictability of this offense?  This is real.  

Another of our quality play calls that we make.  Pocket already broken down before a receiver turns around, and the Packers knew to flush him away from his 3 receivers.

 

13 minutes ago, SBorBust said:

The fact Clowney cheap-shotted Wentz in the playoff game and no one cared told you all you need to know.

I’m not "anti-Wentz.” I just have eyes.

I forgot about that.  Good point.