4 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

That said, if Brian Dawkins can look past the decisions the team made, so should anyone else,

Most people are not the high character guys Brian Dawkins is.  Most players are petty, really only look out for themselves and their money.

3 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Or R. Douglas, or S. Miller, or M. Pryor, or C. Thorson, or M. Hollins, or E. Qualls, or S. Gibson, or...

Yep... long list of misses.

1 hour ago, xBMTx said:

Did everyone forget about Donnel Pumphrey?

1	4	Jacksonville Jaguars	Leonard Fournette	RB	LSU	SEC
	1	8	Carolina Panthers	Christian McCaffrey †	RB	Stanford	Pac-12
	2	41	Minnesota Vikings	Dalvin Cook †	RB	Florida State	ACC	from Cincinnati [R2 - 6]
	2	48	Cincinnati Bengals	Joe Mixon	RB	Oklahoma	Big 12	from Minnesota [R2 - 9]
	3	67	New Orleans Saints	Alvin Kamara †	RB	Tennessee	SEC	from Chicago via San Francisco [R3 - 1]
	3	86	Kansas City Chiefs	Kareem Hunt †	RB	Toledo	MAC	from Miami via Minnesota [R3 - 10]
	3	89	Houston Texans	D'Onta Foreman	RB	Texas	Big 12
	3*	105	Pittsburgh Steelers	James Conner †	RB	Pittsburgh	ACC
	4	114	Washington Redskins	Samaje Perine	RB	Oklahoma	Big 12	from NY Jets [R4 - 5]
	4	119	Chicago Bears	Tarik Cohen †	RB	North Carolina A&T	MEAC	from Arizona [R4 - 9]
	4	121	San Francisco 49ers	Joe Williams	RB	Utah	Pac-12	from Indianapolis [R4 - 10]
	4	132	Philadelphia Eagles	Donnel Pumphrey	RB	San Diego State	MW	from Kansas City via Minnesota [R4 - 16]
	4	134	Green Bay Packers	Jamaal Williams	RB	BYU	Ind. (FBS)
	4	140	New York Giants	Wayne Gallman	RB	Clemson	ACC	Selection dropped 12 spots (see above)
	4*	143	Indianapolis Colts	Marlon Mack	RB	South Florida	The American	from San Francisco  [R4 - 21]
	5	156	Atlanta Falcons	Brian Hill	RB	Wyoming	MW	from Buffalo [R5 - 5]
	5	162	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Jeremy McNichols	RB	Boise State	MW
	5*	179	Arizona Cardinals	T. J. Logan	RB	North Carolina	ACC
	5*	182	Green Bay Packers	Aaron Jones	RB	UTEP	C-USA
	6	188	New York Jets	Elijah McGuire	RB	Louisiana-Lafayette	Sun Belt	from Chicago via Houston and Cleveland [R6 - 3]
	6	203	Denver Broncos	De'Angelo Henderson	RB	Coastal Carolina	Ind. (FCS)	from Tennessee [R6 - 12]
	7	238	Green Bay Packers	Devante Mays	RB	Utah State	MW	from Denver  [R7 - 15]
	7	241	Tennessee Titans	Khalfani Muhammad	RB	California	Pac-12	from NY Giants [R7 - 18]
	7	242	Oakland Raiders	Elijah Hood	RB	North Carolina	ACC
	7	249	Seattle Seahawks	Chris Carson	RB	Oklahoma State	Big 12	from Atlanta [R7 - 21]

Just pointing out there were a lot of us who liked gallman (currently playing well for the giants) and i loved marlon Mack. He was one of my favorite backs to watch in that draft 

29 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I thought about responding to that... but figured it wouldn't be worth the effort.   Apparently Donnell Pumphrey was a good pick.

I think my response and the other similar on the last page pretty much hammered the point home.

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

One of these days I need to do a post Super Bowl redraft based on players we talked about.

That sounds like it would be painful to read... and the dominoes of it all would be ridiculous.  For example, just scrolling up a bit, not wasting a pick on Sydney Jones and going with Alvin Kamara instead, trickles down to not draft Donnell Pumphrey, but also means that the Eagles don't make a move in season for Jay Ajayi, so they'd still have that pick for 2018.  Corey Clement likely doesn't emerge in 2017 though, and who knows if Kamara has the same kind of Super Bowl that Clement did.  Frankly, that Super Bowl performance by Clement was probably one of the greatest Super Bowl performances by a rookie UDFA in the history of the Super Bowl.  

So, I don't know that it would necessarily have ended with a Lombardi, but it absolutely would have ended with a better roster currently. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Just pointing out there were a lot of us who liked gallman (currently playing well for the giants) and i loved marlon Mack. He was one of my favorite backs to watch in that draft 

People should also remember Pumphrey was actually two draft picks — the Eagles traded #139 and #230 to select him.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Just pointing out there were a lot of us who liked gallman (currently playing well for the giants) and i loved marlon Mack. He was one of my favorite backs to watch in that draft 

Gallman and Mack were my hopes for a RB going into Day 3 of that draft... after having my heart crushed by losing out on both Hunt and Godwin in Round 3.   Would have taken a trade up to land Godwin and Hunt/Kamara, but with what they gave up for Pumphrey, it likely would have been worth it once the RB was secured.    

 

Of course, Douglas did play fairly well in his spot duty as a rookie with the Eagles in 2017.  I had hopes for him.

On 12/9/2020 at 8:05 AM, downundermike said:

You might have the least amount of football knowledge of anyone that posts here.  You just wanna bash Wentz, I assume it is because you belong to the cult of Foles.  You never want to discuss the issues with this team, you just run and hide for a week and then come back with the same trolling nonsense.

So I will give you a chance to contribute, lets discuss Eagles problems.

The Eagles are tied for 1st in the NFL in yards per carry, the Eagles are 28th in carries, thoughts ??

Miles Sanders is arguably the best player on offense, he has not had 20 combined touches in his last 7 games, thoughts ??

Eagles have a 25:75 run pass ratio during the current 4 game losing streak, thoughts ??

@toughfighter83 care to join a conversation instead of just rambling nonsense.

Do you even have the stones to discuss these points ??

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Most people are not the high character guys Brian Dawkins is.  Most players are petty, really only look out for themselves and their money.

"Most" is a strong word.  I don't doubt there are players, like you say, that mostly care about their contracts and the best fit for themselves.  That"s almost a natural instinct, especially in a competitive environment.

That said, I tend to disagree that, "most" feel that way, especially the veterans that have been on teams for years. 

Do you think guys like BG, Johnson, Kelce, Mills, Cox, Brooks, and Seumalo think like that? 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Gallman and Mack were my hopes for a RB going into Day 3 of that draft... after having my heart crushed by losing out on both Hunt and Godwin in Round 3.   Would have taken a trade up to land Godwin and Hunt/Kamara, but with what they gave up for Pumphrey, it likely would have been worth it once the RB was secured.    

 

Of course, Douglas did play fairly well in his spot duty as a rookie with the Eagles in 2017.  I had hopes for him.

My two favorite backs in that draft were Mack and hunt. I figured they’d fall to round 3-4 range and that’s where the eagles would take a rb. I liked cook but all the rumors surrounding him with his off the field crowd and then i want to say reports he had some health issue where people didn’t think he’d have a long career cause it was degenerative. I wasn’t touching mixon with a ten foot pole with everything going on around him. I remember someone on the board telling me to watch more of kamara. I did. His production at Tennessee if i remember wasn’t overly high but his tape/highlights were pretty nice.

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

"Most" is a strong word.  I don't doubt there are players, like you say, that mostly care about their contracts and the best fit for themselves.  That"s almost a natural instinct, especially in a competitive environment.

That said, I tend to disagree that, "most" feel that way, especially the veterans that have been on teams for years. 

Do you think guys like BG, Johnson, Kelce, Mills, Cox, Brooks, and Seumalo think like that? 

I'm not going to get into the who is and who isn't... but frankly, comparing anyone to Brian Dawkins is a bit of an unfair standard.  BDawk is in a class of his own.  He's a once in a generation type player/person to come through an organization.  

 

I was there for his induction into the Hall and I have to tell you... every Hall of Famer out there made it about themselves, except him.  He made it about all the people who helped him get there, and put out a message of hope for anyone who was struggling with mental illness.  He had the greatest stage that he'd get on this earth to be heard, and he made sure that he didn't waste it, but looked for ways to lift others up, rather than focusing on himself.   And it wasn't a prepared speech, he merely spoke from his heart, like he always does.   We may never see another person come through this organization like Brian Dawkins.

I see a lot of people talking about Malcolm Jenkins the person in all this. I couldnt care less about that. He can say whatever he wants or feel anyway he wants that’s his right. I don’t care. My issue has and will always be the Philadelphia Eagles for years could see this day coming. Instead of going to the draft and developing a safety for when this day happened they continued to just ignore the position even though we could all see this coming at one point in time. That is bad planning.

So when you went to go cut Malcolm Jenkins you were forced to keep Rodney McLeod (who I don’t think it’s very good anymore what they ask him to do )otherwise they’d have had nothing. The Plan was we’re just gonna switch Jalen mills over to safety and signing back up safety and draft a kid in the fourth round like that was a good solution the year you cut him was ridiculous. They had multiple years knowing this day was coming and they decided to ignore it for years. Anyway you slice it that is gross negligence on the part of the Eagles who wanted to release Malcolm Jenkins and move on but continued to no address the position in the draft. 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

It was reported 2 weeks ago that Jeremy Chinn was the highest rated player on the Eagles board when they went on the clock, Howie picked Jalen Hurts.

The following weekend Chinn had two fumble returns for TD's, and has been balling all year.

Reported by who? What source?

CYA is common when an organization is floundering, but Howie doesn't do the scouting, he's not head of college or pro player evaluation.

So I'm suspicious about all these reports b/c you often have leaks by people with agendas.

By the way, fumble recoveries have been shown to be basically luck, forcing fumbles is a skill.

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Reported by who? What source?

CYA is common when an organization is floundering, but Howie doesn't do the scouting, he's not head of college or pro player evaluation.

So I'm suspicious about all these reports b/c you often have leaks by people with agendas.

By the way, fumble recoveries have been shown to be basically luck, forcing fumbles is a skill.

Here is the story from draft weekend

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/players-eagles-almost-took-jeremy-chinn-jk-dobbins-53-and-why-they-didnt

I do not remember where the story from two weeks ago was posted, they talked about it on 97.5 and WIP.

 

And yes, people have agendas.  This agenda is to expose the constant draft failings of Howie Roseman.

20 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm not going to get into the who is and who isn't... but frankly, comparing anyone to Brian Dawkins is a bit of an unfair standard.  BDawk is in a class of his own.  He's a once in a generation type player/person to come through an organization.  

 

I was there for his induction into the Hall and I have to tell you... every Hall of Famer out there made it about themselves, except him.  He made it about all the people who helped him get there, and put out a message of hope for anyone who was struggling with mental illness.  He had the greatest stage that he'd get on this earth to be heard, and he made sure that he didn't waste it, but looked for ways to lift others up, rather than focusing on himself.   And it wasn't a prepared speech, he merely spoke from his heart, like he always does.   We may never see another person come through this organization like Brian Dawkins.

i was there as well. one of the most powerful speeches I will ever see

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is the story from draft weekend

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/players-eagles-almost-took-jeremy-chinn-jk-dobbins-53-and-why-they-didnt

I do not remember where the story from two weeks ago was posted, they talked about it on 97.5 and WIP.

 

And yes, people have agendas.  This agenda is to expose the constant draft failings of Howie Roseman.

It’s not an agenda. It’s provable by his draft success over a period of time. Except if you want to be in denial about their draft success. It really never amazes me the amount of hoops people jump through to defend the organization and buy into narrative that the team wants to spin. You might as well just call yourself Dave Spadaro because that’s what Dave does.

2 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

I just want to confirm, you think the Eagles only had 2 bad draft picks in 5 years... 

Anything after pick #100 is a crap shoot. So I don't even look at the misses, just the hits.

Fans get excited about every draft pick, but third day picks mostly miss, and you get as much talent raiding other people's missed third day picks as SFAs and off practice squads as you do drafting them - Fulgham (6th), Scott (6th), Ridgeway (4th). Point is you can lump 3rd day picks, UDFAs and SFAs in roster building, it's the cumulative impact of all these resources that matter.

However, missing 1st and 2nd day picks means you're missing on higher probability picks. Especially picks in the top 40.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s not an agenda. It’s provable by his draft success over a period of time. Except if you want to be in denial about their draft success. It really never amazes me the amount of hoops people jump through to defend the organization and buy into narrative that the team wants to spin. You might as well just call yourself Dave Spadaro because that’s what Dave does.

Here is a way to look at it that hopefully makes sense to people.

This is going back to 2013.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Here is a way to look at it that hopefully makes sense to people.

This is going back to 2013.

I would also make a column of guys they drafted we didn’t get second contract and a column of guys who got cut within 1 to 2 years of being Drafted. 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Anything after pick #100 is a crap shoot. So I don't even look at the misses, just the hits.

Fans get excited about every draft pick, but third day picks mostly miss, and you get as much talent raiding other people's missed third day picks as SFAs and off practice squads as you do drafting them - Fulgham (6th), Scott (6th), Ridgeway (4th). Point is you can lump 3rd day picks, UDFAs and SFAs in roster building, it's the cumulative impact of all these resources that matter.

However, missing 1st and 2nd day picks means you're missing on higher probability picks. Especially picks in the top 40.

Sure...  so, give him credit for Mailata, whom he traded up for in Round 7, but wash away any responsibility for Donnel Pumphrey whom he also traded up for in Round 4.  

 

If it truly is a crap shoot, then he gets no credit for the hits either.  Because if it truly is a crap shoot then he's just throwing darts at a bunch of names... which given his history, would likely be better than his actual results.  

 

Howie has missed on a ton of picks...   But, he's your guy, or you are him... whatever.   So you will defend him to the hilt.  Bad contracts, bad drafts, bad relationships.... Howie needs to go.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is the story from draft weekend

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/players-eagles-almost-took-jeremy-chinn-jk-dobbins-53-and-why-they-didnt

I do not remember where the story from two weeks ago was posted, they talked about it on 97.5 and WIP.

 

And yes, people have agendas.  This agenda is to expose the constant draft failings of Howie Roseman.

That doesn't say they rated Chinn higher than Hurts. And Position matters, an OT will get taken before an OG if they have the same rating.

What it said is Chinn and Robbins were the two position players they were looking at that spot.

Now unless you think Chinn over Mills would have solved the CB issue, or Robbins over Scott at RB would have made a significant impact on the offense, then taking Hurts did not have a real impact on this season. The only choice that could have had a significant impact, in hindsight, would have been a starting caliber RG, but at the time, that wasn't even remotely a need (with Seumalo and Brooks healthy at the draft, Pryor and Herbig on the roster, a guard would have to have been clearly BPA to be chosen there). They took Driscoll in the 4th as a development project who they didn't expect to play this year.

 

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Anything after pick #100 is a crap shoot. So I don't even look at the misses, just the hits.

So here is the same chart I posted above, applying the pick 100 theory.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

That doesn't say they rated Chinn higher than Hurts. And Position matters, an OT will get taken before an OG if they have the same rating.

What it said is Chinn and Robbins were the two position players they were looking at that spot

Reading comprehension not your strong suit ??

I said this is the draft weekend story, but multiple tweets, and both 97.5 and WIP both talked about Chinn being the highest player on the board and Howie over ruled them.

 

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is a way to look at it that hopefully makes sense to people.

This is going back to 2013.

Why 2013?  Kelly was in control of the 2013-2015 drafts, Howie didn't come out of exile until 2016. So 2016-2020 is the one stretch we know he had control.

And there's the other issue, misuse by coaches, Rowe is not a starting safety, Douglas looks much better, even Jones is laying better.

I wouldn't say Maddox sucks, he's a 7th rd pick asked to start at outside CB when his best spot is nickel.

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is a way to look at it that hopefully makes sense to people.

This is going back to 2013.

Putting Maddox, Pryor and Gerry in the same field is just not accurate.  I am not sure who Whiteside is? I would assume you mean Hightower and he doesn't suck.  You don't have JJAW and he's clearly in the suck category.  Maddox is a competent starter.  Pryor probably has a role as a backup.  Gerry is maybe a ST player.