4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t disagree about calling him mentally weak. However i was just making the point there was credence to the point he might have broke down in practice and began crying like what was reported and the eagles didn’t exactly do their homework to know this might have been an issue previously in HS and college. 

and there’s no reasons can’t turn it around. However i think to overlook his past and then have that story come out doesn’t make it just the media looking to bury him. It might just be his past has shown situation might have legs to it and might be a cause for concern.  

Pure bunk.  Dillard was a consensus first round graded OT leading up to the draft.  If he "almost quit football in HS and college”, then he must have more pure talent than Penei Sewell to be graded as he was — or the Philly media have some small-minded hacks just spinning a narrative to be negadelphian 

Column B looks about 98% more likely to me.

3 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

It can help, but you are, who you are until you get completely humbled and are forced to look inwards.  A year on full pay in a corner office and paid to jump around the world isn't a hardship.

It's paid vacation.

I think most of us would have loved it.

Yup... I would sign up for that.

8 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Pure bunk.  Dillard was a consensus first round graded OT leading up to the draft.  If he "almost quit football in HS and college”, then he must have more pure talent than Penei Sewell to be graded as he was — or the Philly media have some small-minded hacks just spinning a narrative to be negadelphian 

Column B looks about 98% more likely to me.

It was his dad in the athletic article that said it. Take it up with sheil kapadia who interview his dad (as well as a HS and wazzu coach) who was the one who claimed it. So it’s either Kapadia misquoted his father or his father said something he doesn’t know what he’s talking about if you are going to say it’s bunk. 

21 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

Your score is: 40003 (GRADE: A)

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 6: DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama (A-)
Round 2 Pick 6: Asante Samuel, CB, Florida State (A)
Round 3 Pick 6: Charles Snowden, DE/OLB, Virginia (A)
Round 5 Pick 5: Alaric Jackson, OT, Iowa (A+)
Round 5 Pick 6: Ambry Thomas, CB, Michigan (A+)
Round 6 Pick 6: Brenton Cox, DE/OLB, Florida (A+)
Round 7 Pick 6: Braydon Johnson, WR, Oklahoma State (A+)

A+

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

There's a reason the ongoing joke in TATE is "Who's going to win the annual Na Brown award?"

 

Actually it’s become the nasty Nate award 

 

16 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Improving Carson by having a harder QB coach and in all honesty, having a sports psychologist to help him deal with the injuries, being a Dad and in Philly in general, is a good start.  He may never get to 2017 again, but he's still a better QB that Goff will ever be and that is plenty good enough IMHO.  He needs the pressure removing from him but also pushed to accept what is there and live the system. 

If Aaron Rodgers can work with LaFleur and flourish, then there is no reason Carson can't with AN Other.  An organisation like the Colts would be delirious to get a talent like Wentz in the house.

I think the standards to win Super Bowls have changed. It obviously has always been important to have a top 5 QB, but it wasn't always 100% necessary as we've seen throughout history. However, now more than ever, and by now I mean in 2020, not just in "this era" of NFL football, I think it's of the utmost importance. Patrick Mahomes has changed the game.

He's Aaron Rodgers 2.0 on steroids and unlike Rodgers he actually has an elite coach with him to maximize his weapons. This is a scoring league more than ever before. There are no dominant defenses. You need an ELITE elite QB to win now, and will going forward. You simply aren't going to outscore the Chiefs or other teams with elite QBs without one. If Wentz never gets back to 2017 level, the team is Fed and will have to move on.

I think we're going to see teams bailing on QBs a lot earlier going forward. We already saw it with Arizona. We're gonna see it with the Jets and Darnold. I think teams are going to bail on guys they like for guys they love a lot more often, when in the past you'd usually see teams try to extract as much out of each QB as they could before bailing

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Actually it’s become the nasty Nate award 

I'm going to plug hard for the annual Fulgoat award.

Nasty Nate owns the preseason, Fulgoat owns the regular season.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Actually it’s become the nasty Nate award 

I deleted it because I thought something was off with my title.  And it's not just him....in a sense, Na Brown gets all the attention because he was among the first of many prospects that the media was off on (One way or another).

But it's one thing to "be off" on a player because you pump him up, etc but it's another thing to be off on a player when "you bash him"...especially some of these younger guys.  It takes 2-3 years for some of these guys to develop. 

I don't necessarily disagree with reporters saying things along the lines of, "He's still somewhat raw but showing improvement, etc" but when they come out with definitive statements like, "This guy is going to be a bust because he's mentally weak"...well, that's taking it too far, imo. 

And before anyone says, "No one said that", etc...it's not necessarily about what you say..it's how it will likely be interpreted...especially among a no-bs, don't mince words, fan base like Philadelphia. 

3 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I think the standards to win Super Bowls have changed. It obviously has always been important to have a top 5 QB, but it wasn't always 100% necessary as we've seen throughout history. However, now more than ever, and by now I mean in 2020, not just in "this era" of NFL football, I think it's of the utmost importance. Patrick Mahomes has changed the game.

He's Aaron Rodgers 2.0 on steroids and unlike Rodgers he actually has an elite coach with him to maximize his weapons. This is a scoring league more than ever before. There are no dominant defenses. You need an ELITE elite QB to win now, and will going forward. You simply aren't going to outscore the Chiefs or other teams with elite QBs without one. If Wentz never gets back to 2017 level, the team is Fed and will have to move on.

I think we're going to see teams bailing on QBs a lot earlier going forward. We already saw it with Arizona. We're gonna see it with the Jets and Darnold. I think teams are going to bail on guys they like for guys they love a lot more often, when in the past you'd usually see teams try to extract as much out of each QB as they could before bailing

100% agree.  I have been saying this for years.

A "good" CB is nice.  A "good" DE is nice.  A "good QB" is an anchor around the neck of your franchise.  

Sure, you can show me teams that won SB's with merely "good QB's."  And every one of them did it under extremely lucky circumstances in which the good QB played like an MVP for a short stretch.

Trying to get lucky is not a blueprint for success.  

Ironically, I see Hurts' absolute ceiling as "good QB" with his floor being immediate mess who can't pass at an NFL level.  And as 2017 gets further and further in the rearview mirror, I'm increasingly seeing the same floor and ceiling for Wentz.

So if the upside for both is simply an anchor of a good QB, maybe we'd be better off the faster they both flame out...

8 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I deleted it because I thought something was off with my title.  And it's not just him....in a sense, Na Brown gets all the attention because he was among the first of many prospects that the media was off on (One way or another).

But it's one thing to "be off" on a player because you pump him up, etc but it's another thing to be off on a player when "you bash him"...especially some of these younger guys.  It takes 2-3 years for some of these guys to develop. 

I don't necessarily disagree with reporters saying things along the lines of, "He's still somewhat raw but showing improvement, etc" but when they come out with definitive statements like, "This guy is going to be a bust because he's mentally weak"...well, that's taking it too far, imo. 

And before anyone says, "No one said that", etc...it's not necessarily about what you say..it's how it will likely be interpreted...especially among a no-bs, don't mince words, fan base like Philadelphia. 

i wouldn’t disagree with you on that assessment. I actually agree with bo wulf that issue is less of a concern as his age coming out and the fact he fell down the draft boards when the consensus was he was a top 10 pick before and leading up to the draft.

My issue with dillard goes deeper than that. I wasn’t against drafting him however i also thought people went completely overboard with their projections for him to begin with. To me I found it curious a LT with great feet and  a league needs as many great oline or good or serviceable OL as it does fell from where people had him as a top 10 pick to the 20s. A drop like that kind of tells me teams above might have had more information about him that they might have had some issues with. There were plenty of teams who could use OL help picking ahead of us. Also if i remember stoutland’s quote after we drafted him they didn’t do as much research cause they didn’t expect him to be there  

then again my expectations were his ceiling is being a LT like tra Thomas (not in terms of his game just if he reached his potential) and his floor was likely that if someone like vaitai. But i was also OK if the eagles based off what they saw as a rookie thought it was in their best interested to draft another OL like an Ezra Cleveland who could play tackle and be moved to guard if they were concerned about Dillard’s development. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

100% agree.  I have been saying this for years.

A "good" CB is nice.  A "good" DE is nice.  A "good QB" is an anchor around the neck of your franchise.  

Sure, you can show me teams that won SB's with merely "good QB's."  And every one of them did it under extremely lucky circumstances in which the good QB played like an MVP for a short stretch.

Trying to get lucky is not a blueprint for success.  

Ironically, I see Hurts' absolute ceiling as "good QB" with his floor being immediate mess who can't pass at an NFL level.  And as 2017 gets further and further in the rearview mirror, I'm increasingly seeing the same floor and ceiling for Wentz.

So if the upside for both is simply an anchor of a good QB, maybe we'd be better off the faster they both flame out...

The issue is there’s a lot more good QBs out there then there’s mahomes, Wilson, rodgers, Big Ben (in his prime) and Brady. It’s why it takes those franchises usually decades to find besides the packers. They got fortunate rodgers fell to 24 when they already had favre. Sadly they should have more than 2 titles when you consider they’ve had those guys for over two decades. Only One who won multiple i wouldn’t consider in that class is Eli. I think he depended on the year and having some absolutely ridiculous fortune on plays in SBs

i tend to agree with you on hurts and wentz being ceiling of good. 

I don’t know why this is a debate. It’s well known Dillard wanted to quit football growing up. And was out there during the combine, it’s not just a negadelphian thing at all. His mom said it.
 

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-football-Andre-Dillard-grit-NFL-Draft-Nashville-mom-Jennifer-Bollinger-Cougars-WSU-131464270/

His coaches said it.

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2019/05/heres-the-story-of-how-andre-dillard-went-from-wuss-to-eagles-first-round-pick-hes-an-absolute-freak.html

Even Dillard said it 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/senior-bowl-2019-andre-dillard-went-from-hating-football-to-obsessing-about-it.html

 

8 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I deleted it because I thought something was off with my title.  And it's not just him....in a sense, Na Brown gets all the attention because he was among the first of many prospects that the media was off on (One way or another).

But it's one thing to "be off" on a player because you pump him up, etc but it's another thing to be off on a player when "you bash him"...especially some of these younger guys.  It takes 2-3 years for some of these guys to develop. 

I don't necessarily disagree with reporters saying things along the lines of, "He's still somewhat raw but showing improvement, etc" but when they come out with definitive statements like, "This guy is going to be a bust because he's mentally weak"...well, that's taking it too far, imo. 

And before anyone says, "No one said that", etc...it's not necessarily about what you say..it's how it will likely be interpreted...especially among a no-bs, don't mince words, fan base like Philadelphia. 

I will never, ever forget training camp 2005.  I love to tell this story and I'm sure you've all heard it.  

1. Jeremy Bloom.  Oh my goodness.  TO trouble was brewing and they wanted to anoint other weapons on offense.  The PE.com staff was calling him the star of training camp, uncoverable, explosive speed.  He looked like an elementary school kid who got to put on the pads at camp due to make-a-wish.  He truly STOOD OUT in how clearly he didn't belong.  Couldn't make cuts, couldn't absorb hits, ran routes like 2020 Alshon Jeffery with Sproles-like size.  I go home and read camp reports, from the same practices I saw, about how incredible he looked and how he'd be a huge boost for the offense and ST.

2. Ryan Moats.  While ball security issues derailed his career, he was actually quite the talented pure runner.  Same day of training camp, I see passes clanking off his hands like someone cut his fingers off.  I go home to say he looked pretty agile but was horrendous in passing drills with his hands...other posters, backed up with specific articles from the media, say that he looked so fluid and comfortable as a receiver and will be a weapon in the passing game.

These were not subtle, high end, intelligent observations of mine.  This was really obvious stuff...yet these narratives got pushed and people ran with it.

One thing of note though...a late round rookie draft pick with uninspiring workouts did look really explosive off the LOS in line drills...Trent Cole.

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t know why this is a debate. It’s well known Dillard wanted to quit football growing up. And was out there during the combine, it’s not just a negadelphian thing at all. His mom said it.
 

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-football-Andre-Dillard-grit-NFL-Draft-Nashville-mom-Jennifer-Bollinger-Cougars-WSU-131464270/

His coaches said it.

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2019/05/heres-the-story-of-how-andre-dillard-went-from-wuss-to-eagles-first-round-pick-hes-an-absolute-freak.html

Even Dillard said it 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/senior-bowl-2019-andre-dillard-went-from-hating-football-to-obsessing-about-it.html

 

Was it his mom? I thought it was his dad. I swear it was his dad in the kapadia piece 

Meh, Eli has 2 rings, Foles has a ring, Flacco has a ring . . .

It helps to have an elite QB, but at any time there are what, 3 in the league?

Yet, other teams win SBs.

Helps even more to have a great team, give Wentz a top OL and skill people at RB, WR and TE, and I'll bet he looks a heckuva lot better.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Was it his mom? I thought it was his dad. I swear it was his dad in the kapadia piece 

It was

yes his dad was in the athletic piece too. Literally everyone close to him and he himself have said this story 10,000 times over.

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t know why this is a debate. It’s well known Dillard wanted to quit football growing up. And was out there during the combine, it’s not just a negadelphian thing at all. His mom said it.
 

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-football-Andre-Dillard-grit-NFL-Draft-Nashville-mom-Jennifer-Bollinger-Cougars-WSU-131464270/

His coaches said it.

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2019/05/heres-the-story-of-how-andre-dillard-went-from-wuss-to-eagles-first-round-pick-hes-an-absolute-freak.html

Even Dillard said it 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/senior-bowl-2019-andre-dillard-went-from-hating-football-to-obsessing-about-it.html

 

Michael Jordan quit basketball.  Foles wanted to quit football before he signed with us to win a SB.  

I understand this may be a problem in hindsight with a guy who apparently doesn't want it enough, but I wouldn't hold it against a guy for climbing out of a hole like that...shows some character.

I want to quit my job right now...  

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Meh, Eli has 2 rings, Foles has a ring, Flacco has a ring . . .

It helps to have an elite QB, but at any time there are what, 3 in the league?

Yet, other teams win SBs.

Helps even more to have a great team, give Wentz a top OL and skill people at RB, WR and TE, and I'll bet he looks a heckuva lot better.

For someone who has passed the bar, you certainly endorse a low one with the Eagles for every position that comes under scrutiny.  

Just now, eagle45 said:

Michael Jordan quit basketball.  Foles wanted to quit football before he signed with us to win a SB.  

I understand this may be a problem in hindsight with a guy who apparently doesn't want it enough, but I wouldn't hold it against a guy for climbing out of a hole like that...shows some character.

I don’t think it’s really an issue right now as he was young and just not good. Even Tra Thomas said today on his podcast he grew up not liking football. The crying breakdowns at practice are more of a red flag, IMO.

I think what happened to Pederson is simple, he was a players' coach who was breath of fresh air after Kelly.

As long as he had talented assistants, his fundamental flaws were covered up and he was good at motivating veterans.

Now that the assistants are gone, the veterans are injured, his mediocre scheming and playcalling have been exposed, and he's not really good with young players.

So it's time to move on, we'll always have SB 52.

Howie's a different matter, comes down to what was really happening, whether it was Howie's decisions or Lurie pulling an Ed Snider (the future be damned, I want one more championship ring before I die so resign the 2017 team). On offense part of the problem may have been whether the schemes were Pederson or the assistants, that is, was Howie trying to hit a moving target as the assistants moved on and Pederson had no fundamental offensive identity (other than maybe ARs' old WCO built around RBs and TEs combined with the RPO). On defense, it's pretty obvious that Schwartz lobbied for resources to be spent on the DL, Jerrigan, Jackson, Hargrave, Barnett.

To me if Howie stays, it's Lurie admitting he pushed Howie to win now and trusts Howie to fix the mess Lurie helped create, if Howie goes, Howie was the primary architect of the win now strategy that fell short.

I'm late. Dillard wanted to quit?

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

For someone who has passed the bar, you certainly endorse a low one with the Eagles for every position that comes under scrutiny.  

We know Wentz can win games, I wouldn't judge any QB behind this OL until it's fixed. A bad OL can destroy a QB's confidence and ruin their career.

I doubt Wentz suddenly forgot how to play football.

Has Brees been a great QB the last few years? Or is he a good QB on a great offensive team?

F Howie F Doug and F Dillard

it had to be done