14 minutes ago, greend said:

Poor, poor Jalen Hurts. Welcome to what Wentz has gone through every week.

Better to have Herbig get the snaps in practice and start from the first play, then to come in cold off the bench after Peters craps the bed and gives up sacks and pressures on Hurts.   Its actually a better situation for Hurts than it was for Wentz.

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

I like Chase,  but I think our foundation is crumbled. I can't build from the outside in with a WR that high. Trade back to around 10. Build this defense, which needs players at every level, multiple even and the o-line, which is decimated.
That o-line was probably one of the most important cogs to us winning it. Our o-line now is a broken shell of what it once was. Back to basics. This team needs quality AND quantity. Lose out and pick around 5 then reap quality assets by moving back 3-5 picks. We are still keeping in the top 12 which is just as good, plus you can pick up quality selections in the early to mid rounds. We are missing a 4 and 6 this year no less. 

I totally agree on the OL as its a big need but I just feel we need a real game breaking number 1 receiver.  When was the last time the Eagles had one of those?.  TO for a season in 2004?. I just see around the league and teams with real weapons on the outside and us having none of that.  I know Chase would be the sexy pick but we just need a true number 1 receiver who opens up the passing game for other players as well.

11 minutes ago, greend said:

Dumb Arse Doug

I think that falls on Howie, frankly.   Because cutting him makes Howie look bad more than Doug.  Because Howie is the guy that made Alshon the 3rd highest paid player on the team... (Think about that for a second)   And Alshon would be 3rd highest on the salary cap in 2021 as well, if they kept him.   Just gross incompetence.  

If Doug calls a bunch of runs, short passes, and roll outs this week i'm gonna scream.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That sentence at the end.....

See you next year JP!

I want to be paid multiple millions of dollars to be terrible at my job, and end up standing around on the sidelines of an NFL game too... but its not happening for me.  And it shouldn't happen for him either.    

If Jason Peters' career were a pet... the owner would have already made the decision to euthanize the poor critter.   Why can no one stand up to this man and tell him... "Jason, it's over."?!?

2 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

If Doug calls a bunch of runs, short passes, and roll outs this week i'm gonna scream.

It's absolutely going to happen.

7 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

I like Chase,  but I think our foundation is crumbled. I can't build from the outside in with a WR that high. Trade back to around 10. Build this defense, which needs players at every level, multiple even and the o-line, which is decimated.
That o-line was probably one of the most important cogs to us winning it. Our o-line now is a broken shell of what it once was. Back to basics. This team needs quality AND quantity. Lose out and pick around 5 then reap quality assets by moving back 3-5 picks. We are still keeping in the top 12 which is just as good, plus you can pick up quality selections in the early to mid rounds. We are missing a 4 and 6 this year no less. 

No NO NO!!!

 

Build this OFFENSE to give whomever is the QB the pieces around him that he needs to be successful.  Whether its Hurts or Wentz is irrelevant... this offense is a freaking pig sty of a mess.   And where was the money spent this past year in free agency?   That's right... on the DEFENSE.   Slay and Hargrave.   Adding a legitimate NFL WR would have cost less than EITHER of them.   Hargrave got a 3 year deal at $13M/year as it averages out.  Slay got a 4 year deal at $15M, but will likely not see all of it... and will be a 2 year at $13M/year as well.  Meanwhile, Robbie Anderson, whom this team supposedly tried to trade for for 2 consecutive years was available for a 2 year $20M contract... (only $10M/year)!    But the Eagles couldn't spend more money at WR, because they already were on the hook for Alshon ($15M) and Desean ($8.6M)... even though Alshon they knew was going to miss the beginning of the season, and Desean they knew couldn't be counted on for 16 games... Conversely you look at the DT position... and they already had Cox ($17M) and Jackson ($4.6M this year, $13M next year) under contract.  (And if you look at the dead money on Jackson's contract it will make you sick.)

 

Bad roster building... bad way to help your franchise QB.  Is there another franchise in the NFL that anyone wouldn't be laughing at that has been so cavalier with surrounding their QB with receiving talent?  

1 hour ago, Ipiggles said:

 

Some of them admit, they never liked him to begin with.

 

 

If you didn't think Carson Wentz was the future during his "near MVP" 2017 season, then you probably weren't an Eagles fan.  I was sick to my stomach  (shocked) when I found out he was done for the season that year.  So I would tend to disagree that "some never liked him".  

Then the team goes on to win the Super Bowl with Nick Foles...with an exceptional performance from Foles during the NFCCG and and an even better Super Bowl as MVP.

The following year, most fans still supported Wentz and there really wasn't a "QB controversy" at the beginning of the season because Foles fully accepted the role of backup QB for the 2018 season.  

The team struggled for the first 10-11 or so games in 2018 then Wentz was injured again.   They were almost dead in the water when Foles took over.  I believe they had around a 15% chance of making the playoffs when Foles took over as starter in 2018.  The team rallied together to win their final 3 games and went on to win a playoff game.

It wasn't until late in the 2018 season when the real "divide" between fans that wanted to keep Foles vs fans that wanted Wentz occurred. 

And most of the fans that wanted Foles still "liked" Wentz but they felt that Foles was a better fit for the offense, he could win the most "high pressure games", he was a good leader and they would have received a plethora of draft picks for Wentz...and Foles would have been less expensive to keep, etc.   Those were the main reasons at the time.  Not because they didn't "like" Wentz.

It really wasn't until this season that a portion of the fans really started questioning Wentz' apparent regression.    But even most of those think that he might be able to turn it around in the off-season, with proper coaching, etc.  And the majority of fans still want Wentz here....but they just want to see what Hurts can do for the time being.

 

if you aren't taking a QB in the first round the goal is to either salvage Wentz or build up Hurts. Draft Chase. It's not that difficult. 

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

if you aren't taking a QB in the first round the goal is to either salvage Wentz or build up Hurts. Draft Chase. It's not that difficult. 

If they can get a windfall of picks in return, I'd be very happy to trade down.  The consolation prize of Waddle or Smith isn't exactly chopped liver.  Because this team needs a TON of help and will need a LOT of cheap talent as they dig out of the 2021 salary cap debacle.

 

If they move from (hopefully) #3 to #6, and get an extra early 2nd... or even a future 1, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I'd even look to do a double move... back from #3 to #6, then back to #10-13.  Draft Waddle/Smith... then trade back into Round 1 and grab Wyatt Davis.  Get a WR and a cornerstone piece for the OL for the next decade.

 

2 hours ago, greend said:

What bugs me the most is Reagor taking plays off (according to the video of the G.B. game). As a rookie especially where do you come off doing that? Again what are they looking at when they watch film. Are these guys getting corrected for stuff like this? 

I don't think he's taking plays off. The one clip I saw that criticized his route because he looked like he was jogging I think missed on what he was doing.  To me it looked like he was try to bait the DB and then get past him.  I think that's likely a coaching issue rather than some sort of attitude issue. 

Unless there is a clear "can't miss" star where they draft, I'd rather trade down this year, rebuild on the fly, work in a lot of young players, and have one more high pick draft in 2022 and finish the rebuild in two years. Then in 2023, use your new cap room to fill out the roster, but avoid big money to guys 29 or 30 where you're paying for their declining seasons. Look for players like Brooks who we signed as he entered his peak (the two injuries are unfortunate but not predictable).

First build up the roster, then look for a few players to put you over the top, don't focus on a few stars when you have more holes than swiss cheese, b/c good HCs will exploit your weaknesses and negate your strengths - eliminate the obvious holes and you make life harder on them.

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't think he's taking plays off. The one clip I saw that criticized his route because he looked like he was jogging I think missed on what he was doing.  To me it looked like he was try to bait the DB and then get past him.  I think that's likely a coaching issue rather than some sort of attitude issue. 

I haven't seen it, but I remember Westbrook doing this all the time, running like he's a 4.65 guy, then when the defender slowed to parallel him, turning on the jets.

Reagor is more of a burst guy than a speed guy, so changing speeds is a way to create separation. Just something to watch more carefully than a rush to judgement.

27 minutes ago, manz2821 said:

I totally agree on the OL as its a big need but I just feel we need a real game breaking number 1 receiver.  When was the last time the Eagles had one of those?.  TO for a season in 2004?. I just see around the league and teams with real weapons on the outside and us having none of that.  I know Chase would be the sexy pick but we just need a true number 1 receiver who opens up the passing game for other players as well.

How many of these guys are there? How many are 1st rd picks? And how long do they last?

I noticed looking at yardage leaders all were 28 or younger, and many weren't 1st rd picks.

So it may be that WR is a "numbers" position where you have to keep bringing in guys on a regular basis, Pittsburgh is a good example of that strategy.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If they can get a windfall of picks in return, I'd be very happy to trade down.  The consolation prize of Waddle or Smith isn't exactly chopped liver.  Because this team needs a TON of help and will need a LOT of cheap talent as they did out of the 2021 salary cap debacle.

 

If they move from (hopefully) #3 to #6, and get an extra early 2nd... or even a future 1, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I'd even look to do a double move... back from #3 to #6, then back to #10-13.  Draft Waddle/Smith... then trade back into Round 1 and grab Wyatt Davis.  Get a WR and a cornerstone piece for the OL for the next decade.

 

Yes, trade back is certainly on the table. I'd be wary of moving out of the top 10 though. They aren't in this position often where they get an elite prospect without having to give up assets. And Howie has gotten burned with trade backs in the past. So if that's the route they go hopefully it's not him in charge.

My unpopular draft take of the year is just say no to Smith. 

45 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This is one of the biggest problems, though.  He can be moved to inactive; the money is already spent.  Whether it's Lurie, Howie, or the coaching staff actually thinking this guy is an asset on the field -- it's poor talent evaluation.  

I would much rather have Hightower getting more snaps and beating CBs over the top, even if he only catches half of the throws it's far better than what Jeffery offers.  The coaching staff undervalued Mailata -- if they had evaluated him properly there'd have been no reason to bring Peters back in off the street; Herbig or Pryor or even Driscoll could have filled in at RG and saved money.

Without exhibition games they had no way of knowing how far Mailata progressed, practice only tells you so much (how many practice champions have gone belly up in real games?).

So it would have been gross negligence to depend on Mailata without an insurance policy.

2020 sucks.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

if you aren't taking a QB in the first round the goal is to either salvage Wentz or build up Hurts. Draft Chase. It's not that difficult. 

Fulgham should get as many snaps as possible during the remainder of the season. It has to be determined whether he’s a starter quality or just a flash in the pan (#4  WR). Reagor has a lot to prove as well. I agree, what we’ve seen so far would make Chase an uncontroversial pick.

 

1 hour ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I happen to think this is such a critical point.

Outside of a "Buddy Ryan" era type player you mentioned, maybe we also saw some consistency in player type on the defense under Jim Johnson for a period?

Once Jim Johnson died we went to Sean McDermott, to the Wide 9 (Jim Washburn), to Juan Castillo / Todd Bowles...all versions of the 4-3...to Chip Kelly's version of the 3-4 under Bill Davis...back to Jim Schwartz's version of the Wide 9.

Change has been also true on Offense...albeit to a lesser degree.

The only constant over the last 10+ years has been the state of change and flux with scheme and personnel on the Eagles roster.    Contrast that to Pittsburgh and Baltimore that have pretty much run the same general schemes and approach for the last 20 years.

As much as I like and respect Jeff Lurie, the root cause of this type of constant change is Ownership and the top individuals in the FO.   The one common denominator in the Front Office during this period of change / flux has been Howie Roseman.

Howie can no longer pass the blame for being forced to draft for changing schemes and visions when he has also played a major role in all that change and dysfunction. 

 

 

Yup exactly. I agree Jim Johnson had a clear vision of what he wanted his defense to be. Why they ever got away from what was so successful is was beyond me.

Sure the league has evolved and as such so have defenses but teams like pitt the Ravens though they may evolve they stay true to their basic philosophy and Tennant's and it's worked.

As stated that philosophy comes directly from the top, ownership and trickles down to management coaches players to the freaking water boy 

I agree the eagles franchise is at a critical point. 2017 looks more and more like a flash in the pan rather than the result of a sustainable organization wide vision and philosophy.

I have no idea who the eagles are or what they want to be and I don't think the eagles have a clue either from top to bottom.

 

14 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't think he's taking plays off. The one clip I saw that criticized his route because he looked like he was jogging I think missed on what he was doing.  To me it looked like he was try to bait the DB and then get past him.  I think that's likely a coaching issue rather than some sort of attitude issue. 

Yup that's what I thought as well,looked to me like he was slow playing the DB.

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Unless there is a clear "can't miss" star where they draft, I'd rather trade down this year, rebuild on the fly, work in a lot of young players, and have one more high pick draft in 2022 and finish the rebuild in two years. Then in 2023, use your new cap room to fill out the roster, but avoid big money to guys 29 or 30 where you're paying for their declining seasons. Look for players like Brooks who we signed as he entered his peak (the two injuries are unfortunate but not predictable).

First build up the roster, then look for a few players to put you over the top, don't focus on a few stars when you have more holes than swiss cheese, b/c good HCs will exploit your weaknesses and negate your strengths - eliminate the obvious holes and you make life harder on them.

The issue with Brooks wasn't the original contract they signed him to...  That was a great decision, and one I was desperately hoping that they would make.  The issue was the 2nd contract they signed him to... just a year removed from an Achilles injury (which he did come back from amazingly well...) they signed him to make him the highest paid OG contract in the NFL... at 30 years old... a year removed from the Achilles.   That was a bad decision.  It was very risky, and frankly wasn't a move that they needed to make at the time.

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yes, trade back is certainly on the table. I'd be wary of moving out of the top 10 though. They aren't in this position often where they get an elite prospect without having to give up assets. And Howie has gotten burned with trade backs in the past. So if that's the route they go hopefully it's not him in charge.

My unpopular draft take of the year is just say no to Smith. 

Smith is rail thin... which scares me a little.    My ultimate dream draft choice this year (right now, it might change) is Wyatt Davis.  

37 minutes ago, manz2821 said:

I totally agree on the OL as its a big need but I just feel we need a real game breaking number 1 receiver.  When was the last time the Eagles had one of those?.  TO for a season in 2004?. I just see around the league and teams with real weapons on the outside and us having none of that.  I know Chase would be the sexy pick but we just need a true number 1 receiver who opens up the passing game for other players as well.

That receiver won't do much if our QB is getting crushed and running for his life though. I do like Chase though and it is tempting. But I think the smarter move is to build the foundation. To me, that's the o-line and the entire defense. 

50 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That sentence at the end.....

See you next year JP!

across the field

 

There's a lot of 20/20 hindsight going on.

Imagine a reasonable alternative season, the OL is intact except for Brooks, Dillard - Seumalo - Kelce - Peters - Lane, Mailata, Driscoll, Herbig, Pryor, Peters stays at RG through camp, and misses a few games, Mailata comes in for Lane for a couple games, otherwise a solid line that can run and pass block.

DeSean stays healthy most of the first half, Ertz is healthy, Reagor and Hightower get spot duty and a chance to learn the offense before DeSean inevitably goes down for a 4 game stretch. A lot of 2 TE sets and Sanders and Scott get 20 carries a game between them.

Not a great offense, but Wentz doesn't have to run for his life and has his favorite target all season, big plays to DeSean early and Reagor gradually worked in - doubt he would have regressed in that scenario.

Meanwhile, with the team controlling games and giving the defense leads, the D-line pressure forces mistakes and turnovers.

That is, the end of 2019 with a bit more talent in a weak division, and the Eagles go 10-6. And as a veteran team with PO experience, always a threat to go deep.

This scenario doesn't require complete health, nor anyone raising their game above their past production, just the normal couple guys lost for the season and a few more dinged.

But it also means, even with the veterans lost to the cap next year, this team isn't starting from ground zero, we're not the Jets.

1 minute ago, greendestiny27 said:

That receiver won't do much if our QB is getting crushed and running for his life though. I do like Chase though and it is tempting. But I think the smarter move is to build the foundation. To me, that's the o-line and the entire defense. 

Unless they do some type of crazy purge 4 of 5 spots are basically locked in. It would take a big trade back for me to consider filling in the last G/C spot. I wouldn't want to invest a top pick in a backup (assuming Sewell is off the table). I think the 3rd is the sweet spot to get some quality depth.