With DB situation, Driscoll going down, and the cardinals scoring potential I think this is gonna be ugly for us, the following two weeks we can compete. 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the animosity and distrust is more from the drafting of a QB in the second round and not as much the benching due to poor play. I’ve been of the opinion you don’t draft a QB or any player in the second round with the idea they are going to be a backup or an insurance policy in case of injury. You do it assuming as a rookie or at some point in time they are going to be a starter. I think it was BS reasoning they wanted a cheap backup for a couple of years then trade him for more value/or what you spent and use him gadget plays. That was a concoction the eagles came up with when the ultimate reality is they might have thought wentz’s last four games of 2019 were fools gold and didn’t want to admit they drafted him to be a starter at some point. I just don’t think they thought it would come to that point this year. I think they thought they could make the transition after 2021. 

Uh, how many starting QBs have been drafted at #53 or later?  Very few.

If the Eagles drafted someone at #22, then Wentz would have a right to be freaked out, but #53 is where you draft backup QBs that might develop into starter quality in 3-4 years and then be traded for a 1st (best scenario), more likely, become solid backups who are extended at a reasonable cost.

1 minute ago, hputenis said:

I don't even know why you'd include 2017 as part of your argument.  Outside of the last 4 games of 2019 (and week 1), Wentz has been utilized terribly by Doug P, and I'd argue what Wentz did at the end of the season last year was unreal.   It was well documented how defenses defended this ridiculously slow, bunched up offense.  The weapons, the speed, the OL, and the play calling has gotten progressively worse year after year.  So has Wentz.  I'm not denying that.   

True but if you look at the numbers Carson has always been steady with Doug. My issue with Carson is this is year 5. This was supposed to be his best year. I know about the Oline and the WRs but if and only if Hurts continues to play well and this teams wins then I’m looking at Carson and saying he’s gotta go. If they lose and fail then you look at Doug. 
 

That’s why I say let’s what happens after the next 3 weeks which is crucial 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Could have signed a veteran back up.  Instead they drafted the player that was not the highest rated on the draft board.  That is what front offices who don't know what they are doing do.

Who. People suggested Winston and Newton, how are they working out?

There are few good backup QBs, and it's hard to sign a good one to sit behind a young QB, since they prefer situations where they have a legitimate chance of winning a starting job.

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts played against the Saints, who are the #2 ranked total defense in the NFL

This Sunday he’s facing the Cardinals, who are #12

Next Sunday he’s facing DAL, who are ranked #23

Should fans be concerned if his passing numbers stay below 200 yards per game?  I think most fans agree he can scramble and run against NFL defenses; I’m hoping to find out how well he can move the ball through the air in these last 3 games.

 

Rookie 1 game in it’s gonna take some time. Time we may not have this year. 

3 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

I agree. I never was a fan of Doug (strange cause it must seem like I’m defending him) I’m all for HC change after this season. 

The more and more I think about this the Eagles from 2011 to 2020 we’re just a dysfunctional mess outside of that Super Bowl run in 2017. I can name stories nearly every year where there’s some sort of dysfunction Going on. They were closer to being an average organization during those years without that 2017 run. Heck without the 2017 season their average was 8 wins. 

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For Mr. everyone throws for 4000 yards in this era @Arsenal79.

In the last 5 years, with 32 teams in the NFL, there was 160 opportunities to throw for 4000 yards.

56 times a QB has thrown for 4000 yards.  So that is 35% of the time QB's throw for 4000 yards.

Of those 56 times a QB has thrown for 5000 yards, 35 of those ( 62.5 % ) have has been by 10 QB's.

Once again, you guys like to make idiotic statements to discredit someone, when the facts are totally the opposite.

 

Thanks because your own stats torpedo your argument:

35% of the time QB's throw for 4000 yards.

How many times has Carson thrown for 4000 yards?  ONE time.  How many seasons has he played?  FIVE seasons.

What is 1 out of 5?  20%.  

So Carson is MUCH less likely (20%) than a typical QB (35%) to throw for 4000 yards in a season.

And you've been trying to claim he's so great because he threw for 4000 in 2019 for the last two days.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The more and more I think about this the Eagles from 2011 to 2020 we’re just a dysfunctional mess outside of that Super Bowl run in 2017. I can name stories nearly every year where there’s some sort of dysfunction Going on. They were closer to being an average organization during those years without that 2017 run. Heck without the 2017 season their average was 8 wins. 

You're correct.  The Howie era has been mediocre at best with a healthy dash of controversy and drama, aside from one FLUKE season of 2017 where magically the stars aligned and we won the Super Bowl.  I'm thankful for it, but I also acknowledge what it really was.  A FLUKE.

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Uh, how many starting QBs have been drafted at #53 or later?  Very few.

If the Eagles drafted someone at #22, then Wentz would have a right to be freaked out, but #53 is where you draft backup QBs that might develop into starter quality in 3-4 years and then be traded for a 1st (best scenario), more likely, become solid backups who are extended at a reasonable cost.

They did there was a rumor the Eagles were thinking about taking Jordan love. Caplan put it out there they were super interested in Jordan love. Only way that was happening is if they took him where they were picking at 20 and he wasn’t falling to 53

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The more and more I think about this the Eagles from 2011 to 2020 we’re just a dysfunctional mess outside of that Super Bowl run in 2017. I can name stories nearly every year where there’s some sort of dysfunction Going on. They were closer to being an average organization during those years without that 2017 run. Heck without the 2017 season their average was 8 wins. 

Sad to because I really bought into the "new norm” after the SB. The biggest shock is Howie. He fell so far from grace its ridiculous. It does seem like he forgot how to GM lol. It’s absurd how bad his drafts have been

2 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

Rookie 1 game in it’s gonna take some time. Time we may not have this year. 

This is all the time he’s gonna get, though, before the Eagles may have to make a decision that will decide the course of the franchise over the next 5-6 years.

They can go with Wentz as #1 and Hurts as backup next season, but is that realistic?  They can’t go with Hurts as #1 and Wentz as backup — I think most will agree 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

but #53 is where you draft backup QBs that might develop into starter quality in 3-4 years and then be traded for a 1st (best scenario), more likely, become solid backups who are extended at a reasonable cost.

False

In the last 10 drafts, 10 QB's have been drafted in the second round.  3 are current starters ( 5 counting Hurts and Dalton ) 2 were previous starters ( Dalton and Kap ) 1 is a back up and the other two are out of the league.

If you move Hurts and Dalton to the back up column, only 3 of the current NFL back up QB's were drafted in the second round. And two of them, Geno Smith and Andy Dalton were drafted to be the starter.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

This is all the time he’s gonna get, though, before the Eagles may have to make a decision that will decide the course of the franchise over the next 5-6 years.

They can go with Wentz as #1 and Hurts as backup next season, but is that realistic?  They can’t go with Hurts as #1 and Wentz as backup — I think most will agree 

I don't think the decision hinges on Hurts at all.  The decision is ONLY about Carson:

1) If Carson can be "the guy", then bring him back.  Hurts can stay as a backup.

2) If Carson cannot be "the guy", then trade him away.  Hurts becomes the bridge starter.  If he becomes a stud great.  If not, oh well we needed to find someone else anyway.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

They did there was a rumor the Eagles were thinking about taking Jordan love. Caplan put it out there they were super interested in Jordan love. Only way that was happening is if they took him where they were picking at 20 and he wasn’t falling to 53

 

And of course we do something after the NFL has already started to catch up with it.  Lamar has been figured out as a passer, Murray has had some horrid games.

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This is all the time he’s gonna get, though, before the Eagles may have to make a decision that will decide the course of the franchise over the next 5-6 years.

They can go with Wentz as #1 and Hurts as backup next season, but is that realistic?  They can’t go with Hurts as #1 and Wentz as backup — I think most will agree 

Man I’ll be honest I haven’t even gotten that far yet. I’m still holding out hope for this season and hoping we make the playoffs. Once we are officially eliminated I’ll put more though into it. I know this changes need to be made and it could be QB HC or GM. Possibly all 3. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And of course we do something after the NFL has already started to catch up with it.  Lamar has been figured out as a passer, Murray has had some horrid games.

Lol Lamar is a baller and Murray is special.

4 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

"Offensive line has done a commendable job".  

 

WOW. 

 

That's like saying: "So Mrs. Lincoln aside from that, how was the play"?

 

Honest Abe had better prospects in his future when he picked up his tickets from the box office than this team currently has

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And of course we do something after the NFL has already started to catch up with it.  Lamar has been figured out as a passer, Murray has had some horrid games.

I don’t know if I’m right or wrong but my personal belief has always been they didn’t  draft a quarterback in the second round to be a back up and insurance that if Carson got hurt that Hurts would play well. then they could trade them off and get more draft picks. I think that was concoction they came up because fans would buy into it with with their cap space being what it was. I think they drafted him knowing that they could get out of Carson Wentz his contract after 2021 and if Carson hadn’t made the jump that they thought back to 2017 Carson they’d move on with hurts. I do not believe for a second their thought was we are just going to draft a back up in the second round and especially not when the Jordan love rumors surfaced. 

1 hour ago, hputenis said:

I don't even know why you'd include 2017 as part of your argument.  Outside of the last 4 games of 2019 (and week 1), Wentz has been utilized terribly by Doug P, and I'd argue what Wentz did at the end of the season last year was unreal.   It was well documented how defenses defended this ridiculously slow, bunched up offense.  The weapons, the speed, the OL, and the play calling has gotten progressively worse year after year.  So has Wentz.  I'm not denying that.   

In fairness, they started playing 12 personnel, "bunched up" offense once Wallace went down in 2018.  Prior to that, if they had a healthy vertical threat (Smith in 2017) the offense would be much more spread out.  That's why Howie wanted to trade for DJax at the trade deadline in 2018 but Tampa's GM wouldn't trade him.  So they ended up with Golden Tate who earlier in his career was a decent vertical threat but by then, was most efficient out of the slot.  I think they were hoping Agholor could perform better outside and vice versa with Tate.  That didn't work out great because defenses didn't respect either Agholor's or Tate's deep ball threat.  So they would play them basically the same way.  

Come 2019, DJax is back...and what happens the very first game?  The most spread out, big play, vertical offense this team has seen since 2017. DJax gets hurt.... back to 12 personnel.

So obviously Doug Pederson and the coaches prefer having an offense capable of going vertical.  But because of injuries, they couldn't.

2020 comes around, they went after speed hard in the offseason.  Drafted 3 fast WR's, signed Marquise Goodwin and DJax was coming back.  Obviously the vertical threat should be back.  Well, in their first few games this year, there were long plays called quite a bit.  They hit on a few but unfortunately they missed on more.  Many times the throw was way off target or the deep WR not targeted or the play took too long to develop or it was dropped. Then DJax and Reagor get hurt so they go to Hightower as a vertical threat.  Hightower showed some flashes but  same thing.  Missed throws, dropped passes, not targeted.  So what do the coaches do?  They tighten up the offense because the deep ball wasn't working.

Now that Reagor seems to be coming onto his own, I believe we should begin to see more vertical shots.  They had a "near miss" against the Saints.  Had that ball been about a foot closer to Reagor it would have gone for a 70 yard TD,  That has more to do with timing, than anything but it's good to see that they're starting to go back to it. 

9 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

Thanks because your own stats torpedo your argument:

35% of the time QB's throw for 4000 yards.

How many times has Carson thrown for 4000 yards?  ONE time.  How many seasons has he played?  FIVE seasons.

What is 1 out of 5?  20%.  

So Carson is MUCH less likely (20%) than a typical QB (35%) to throw for 4000 yards in a season.

And you've been trying to claim he's so great because he threw for 4000 in 2019 for the last two days.

Way to change the narrative once your original statement was destroyed.

You said it is done all the time, when it is only done 35% of the time.  Carson is the ONLY QB in Eagles franchise history to do it.  Multiple teams only have one player to ever do it.

And of the 25 that have done it, 7 have only done it once.  The 4000 yards passing is skewed by the guys that have done it 4 or 5 times in that 5 year span.

7 teams have not had a 4000 yard passer in the last 5 years, but you discredit Carson for doing it, because EVERYONE does it.

You have been exposed for making idiotic statements that are false.

6 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Lol Lamar is a baller and Murray is special.

Lamar's numbers have regressed, pretty significantly in some categories from last year, and Murray has had some absolute duds this year.

Running QB's always get figured out.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Way to change the narrative once your original statement was destroyed.

You said it is done all the time, when it is only done 35% of the time.  Carson is the ONLY QB in Eagles franchise history to do it.  Multiple teams only have one player to ever do it.

And of the 25 that have done it, 7 have only done it once.  The 4000 yards passing is skewed by the guys that have done it 4 or 5 times in that 5 year span.

7 teams have not had a 4000 yard passer in the last 5 years, but you discredit Carson for doing it, because EVERYONE does it.

You have been exposed for making idiotic statements that are false.

You've been crowing for 2 days about Carson being great because he threw for 4000 yards.  Now you yourself proved that QB's throw for 4000 yards 35% of the time, but Carson has only done it 20% of the time. 

Take the L and move on instead of embarrassing yourself further.

Just now, downundermike said:

Lamar's numbers have regressed, pretty significantly in some categories from last year, and Murray has had some absolute duds this year.

Running QB's always get figured out.

Wentz has been a dud every single game this year and outside of Wentz Washer reality nobody anywhere would take Wentz over Kyler Murray or Lamar.

2 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

You've been crowing for 2 days about Carson being great because he threw for 4000 yards.  Now you yourself proved that QB's throw for 4000 yards 35% of the time, but Carson has only done it 20% of the time. 

Take the L and move on instead of embarrassing yourself further.

You said it is done all the time to discredit him.  Proven false.

 

1 minute ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Wentz has been a dud every single game this year and outside of Wentz Washer reality nobody anywhere would take Wentz over Kyler Murray or Lamar.

Who scored the most points against the #1 scoring defense in the NFL ??

27 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts played against the Saints, who are the #2 ranked total defense in the NFL

This Sunday he’s facing the Cardinals, who are #12

Next Sunday he’s facing DAL, who are ranked #23

Should fans be concerned if his passing numbers stay below 200 yards per game?  I think most fans agree he can scramble and run against NFL defenses; I’m hoping to find out how well he can move the ball through the air in these last 3 games.

 

That will come in time but they will do whatever works and whatever it takes to win.  So no, you shouldn't be disappointed if Hurts has less than 200 yards passing.