1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

It wouldn't shock me.  Much like Doug in 2016, if they do hire a new HC this offseason, they'll have to find someone willing to defer to Howie.

And while the whole "only 32 seats at the NFL HC table lots of guys would kill for the job" rationale applies, the top 3-5 candidates in the cycle will hand pick the right situation.  Daboll will be THE guy in this process.  I doubt he signs up for this dumpster fire.  

And honestly, there might be some merit to this line of thinking. I think this organization loves Doug's personality for the role of Head Coach. He seems to defer to easily to the GM. Also, he's well liked by the players. Being an ex-player himself, he understands the trials and tribulations that they go through. If they let Doug go, it won't be because he's a bad head coach....he's going to be fired because he's a bad offensive coordinator. Hiring Duce (with the condition that he brings in a real offensive coordinator to handle play calling) would allow Lurie to essentially retain the aspects of Doug that he probably likes. 

To me, arm talent is the ability to throw the football with ease. Fluid motion. Little effort. Easy release. Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. Those guys have arm strength. Those top notch "arm talents" usually come with solid accuracy as well. They're just naturally better and more skilled throwers. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The logic that that post you’re commenting to is the same logic people used against deshaun Watson and why he felt a 12 but yet he is now a pro bowl caliber quarterback consistently. Like people kept nitpicking on Deshaun Watson and he dropped because they were stating he had regressed from the previous season and didn’t do this well enough. Folks remember his bad national championship game but sometimes you run into a better overall team. The LSU team he faced last year was better than the Alabama team he faced in the national championship game the year before. And the team last year around him while talented was not nearly as good as that 2018 team. 

and when you look at his numbers he really hasn’t regress. He’s improved his accuracy every single year.
 

If you watch the games you know Lawrence is a stud. All you have to do is compare the first ND game to the second. 
 

That LSU team was probably the best team since the early 2000s Canes. Only those teams had Ken Dorsey while LSU had a stud QB emerge out of nowhere. 

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

It wouldn't shock me.  Much like Doug in 2016, if they do hire a new HC this offseason, they'll have to find someone willing to defer to Howie.

And while the whole "only 32 seats at the NFL HC table lots of guys would kill for the job" rationale applies, the top 2-3 candidates in the cycle will hand pick the right situation.  Daboll will be THE guy in this process.  I doubt he signs up for this dumpster fire.  

We need to get rid of Howie too.

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I agree with the sentiment of Afan’s post, so I should probably step away from the boards for the evening.

The two hardest names of his to defend are a Rivers and Ryan, but they were also hyped up top 5 picks themselves.  

IDK why so many people on here slight Rivers.  Was Marino overrated?  It's not Rivers fault the Chargers organization failed him.  Much like Elway in the 80's on the Broncos as well.

23 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

This is probably a long shot, but it's worth considering taking a QB. Within the organization, if they believe that Wentz is unsalvageable (which is a real possibility) and they also believe that Hurts will never be anything more than a solid back-up (which is also a real possibility), then they might legitimately take a QB. Squeeze whatever draft resources you can out trades and move forward with an eye towards 2022. If Zack Wilson makes it to the Eagles' pick, I wouldn't be shocked if we call his name. 

I think at the Eagles didn’t look at all their options at where they’re picking including quarterback they would be doing a major disservice to the organization. It’s not as if Wentz or hurts are locks to be franchise quarterbacks. So they should be doing their due diligence with all 5 of those quarterbacks (Lawrence, Wilson, fields, lance and jones) even though Trevor Lawrence is not happening.  If they do their homework and they wind up falling in love with one of those kids more so than what they believe hurts or Wentz can be going forward then they should take that quarterback because you might not be in a position again to get the quarterback you ultimately love. That said everyone after Trevor Lawrence I think there’s a big drop.

Just now, Wentz_Era said:

IDK why so many people on here slight Rivers.  Was Marino overrated?  It's not Rivers fault the Chargers organization failed him.  Much like Elway in the 80's on the Broncos as well.

The Chargers had some good teams. Especially with LT in his prime. But having to beat Manning and/or Brady in a playoff game is hard. 

13 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Lawrence is not a once in a generation prospect.  The names you named were complete products/ready day 1 coming out.  Lawrence has regressed in every aspect of the QB game every year he's been in college.  He's got the tools...but he's far from the level of talent he's made out to be.

I'd agree that he regressed in the beginning of last season, but he has since rebounded and has been absolutely dominant.  Unless he physically turns into the Hulk in the playoffs, how would you expect him to improve, especially since he embarrassed Nick Saban in the national championship by tossing dimes and shredding their defense from the pocket in his true freshman year?  

Just now, Giddyunc said:

And honestly, there might be some merit to this line of thinking. I think this organization loves Doug's personality for the role of Head Coach. He seems to defer to easily to the GM. Also, he's well liked by the players. Being an ex-player himself, he understands the trials and tribulations that they go through. If they let Doug go, it won't be because he's a bad head coach....he's going to be fired because he's a bad offensive coordinator. Hiring Duce (with the condition that he brings in a real offensive coordinator to handle play calling) would allow Lurie to essentially retain the aspects of Doug that he probably likes. 

Tony Dungy, Tomlin, and Bill Cowher all excelled as players' coaches who kept an even keel, were good, likable leaders, captained the ship well....and just went along for the ride from an x's and o's perspective.  Their coordinators called the plays, drew up the game plans, etc.

Doug has succeeded in that HC role in the past and that's how he could potentially succeed again.  When Doug took more intellectual control over the direction of this offense and team, that's part of what sent things south.

The issue with this type of HC, as opposed to a Belicheat/AR/Mcvay (less coordinator dependent) is that any success will immediately lead to the poaching of your OC and will saddle you with a constant cycle of hiccups and regression.  

And let’s not forget TL can hit a home run at any given time with his legs too no matter how far out. Dude is fast and can run effortlessly to the house from distance.

5 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

If you watch the games you know Lawrence is a stud. All you have to do is compare the first ND game to the second. 
 

That LSU team was probably the best team since the early 2000s Canes. Only those teams had Ken Dorsey while LSU had a stud QB emerge out of nowhere. 

I don’t know Alabama had some really good team since that Miami hurricanes run with Ken Dorsey. But LSU was definitely on the level with the team last year as some of those great Alabama and Miami teams. 

11 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Yep, some people are WAY overthinking things because he is 175 lbs.

Desean dropped over same concerns, plus he had attitude concerns, people were worried he was too small.

I imagine Smith will drop for same reasons probably not to the second, if he was  bigger he'd go a lot higher.

Personally if the eagles stay at 6 that's way too high for Smith 

I think there are 3 can't miss prospects in this draft, sewell at LT and the LT from Northwestern and Micah parsons at LB.

I know chase gets a lot of hype but I don't think he's a sure thing, he's not a great route runner nor does he have elite speed or size 

He wins a lot of contested catches and is physical but at 6 ft 200 lbs it's not like he's going to bully nfl dbs like TO or julio jones.

I don't think he's a can't miss wr prospect and I think 6 is too high for him.

 

1 minute ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

And let’s not forget TL can hit a home run at any given time with his legs too no matter how far out. Dude is fast and can run effortlessly to the house from distance.

Yeah. When it comes to his legs he’s a middle-class man’s Vince Young. Which is freakin good. 

This current Alabama teams offense is so damn good nobody even really talks about the best player on it which is Harris lol.

4 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I'd agree that he regressed in the beginning of last season, but he has since rebounded and has been absolutely dominant.  Unless he physically turns into the Hulk in the playoffs, how would you expect him to improve, especially since he embarrassed Nick Saban in the national championship by tossing dimes and shredding their defense from the pocket in his true freshman year?  

Honestly it’s the same thing people did to Deshaun Watson when he was at Clemson. The more he starts he had, the more tape he had, the more people began to nitpick at his game and chip away at it. Meanwhile watson gets to the pros and he’s been a pro bowl caliber quarterback since stepping onto the field. 

1 minute ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Yeah. When it comes to his legs he’s a middle-class man’s Vince Young. Which is freakin good. 

Ridiculous fact that Vince young has more pro bowl appearances than Stafford. 2 to 1. Which when you think about it is ridiculous. 

11 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

To me, arm talent is the ability to throw the football with ease. Fluid motion. Little effort. Easy release. Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. Those guys have arm strength. Those top notch "arm talents" usually come with solid accuracy as well. They're just naturally better and more skilled throwers. 

I'd add they can throw the ball from different angles as well.

 

Just now, Utebird said:

Desean dropped over same concerns, plus he had attitude concerns, people were worried he was too small.

I imagine Smith will drop for same reasons probably not too the second, if he was  bigger he'd go a lot higher.

Personally if the eagles stay at 6 that's way too high for Smith 

I think there are 3 can't miss prospects in this draft, sewell at LT and the LT from Northwestern and Micah parsons at LB.

I know chase gets a lot of hype but I don't think he's a sure thing, he's not a great route runner nor does he have elite speed or size 

He wins a lot of contested catches and is physical but at 6 ft 200 lbs it's not like he's going to bully nfl dbs like TO or julio jones.

I don't think he's a can't miss wr prospect and I think 6 is too high for him.

 

The concerns with Desean were valid.  His frailty prevented him from being a reliable, perennial, probowl WR.  At his absolute peak, despite being one of the most dangerous weapons in the NFL of the decade, it was extremely risky to his health to give him a heavy volume of targets.  

Smith has similar rail thin concerns, yet doesn't have Desean's afterburners either.  So how can we justify Smith at 6 with that frame when he's not even a burner?

Agreed completely about Chase.  Different playing style, but he still reminds me quite a bit of Lamb...great in college because he was bigger, stronger, and faster than the competition...but will no longer be any of those things in the NFL.  Still may be enough of the complete package to have wild success in the NFL, but none of those individual traits are exceptional enough to hang your hat on for definitive success in the NFL.

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Tony Dungy, Tomlin, and Bill Cowher all excelled as players' coaches who kept an even keel, were good, likable leaders, captained the ship well....and just went along for the ride from an x's and o's perspective.  Their coordinators called the plays, drew up the game plans, etc.

Doug has succeeded in that HC role in the past and that's how he could potentially succeed again.  When Doug took more intellectual control over the direction of this offense and team, that's part of what sent things south.

The issue with this type of HC, as opposed to a Belicheat/AR/Mcvay (less coordinator dependent) is that any success will immediately lead to the poaching of your OC and will saddle you with a constant cycle of hiccups and regression.  

A lot of people over the years have mentioned the inability to retain an OC as a downside of having a "captain of the ship" type head coach. Personally, I think that fear is slightly overrated. The NFL is such a fickle league that it's nearly impossible to plan out more than three years. I'll take in a heartbeat an up and coming OC that brings tremendous success and then moves on in a couple of years. Furthermore, being a "captain of the ship" HC would make the OC spot more attractive for the young, innovative offensive minds from around the league/college ranks.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The concerns with Desean were valid.  His frailty prevented him from being a reliable, perennial, probowl WR.  At his absolute peak, despite being one of the most dangerous weapons in the NFL of the decade, it was extremely risky to his health to give him a heavy volume of targets.  

Smith has similar rail thin concerns, yet doesn't have Desean's afterburners either.  So how can we justify Smith at 6 with that frame when he's not even a burner?

Agreed completely about Chase.  Different playing style, but he still reminds me quite a bit of Lamb...great in college because he was bigger, stronger, and faster than the competition...but will no longer be any of those things in the NFL.  Still may be enough of the complete package to have wild success in the NFL, but none of those individual traits are exceptional enough to hang your hat on for definitive success in the NFL.

Funny you mention chase comparable to lamb,as I was thinking the same. Lamb doesn't have any elite traits either but in college he was better than a lot of bad college corners.

Having said that I didn't think jefferson had any elite traits either and he is an elite route runner and was in college.

Chase isn't an elite route runner

8 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

This current Alabama teams offense is so damn good nobody even really talks about the best player on it which is Harris lol.

Well, a 6'2" 230lb RB isn't going to have much of a future in the NFL outside of RB rotations, unless someone out there is secretly coveting the next Brandon Jacobs or Eddie George, 2 decades later.

2 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

A lot of people over the years have mentioned the inability to retain an OC as a downside of having a "captain of the ship" type head coach. Personally, I think that fear is slightly overrated. The NFL is such a fickle league that it's nearly impossible to plan out more than three years. I'll take in a heartbeat an up and coming OC that brings tremendous success and then moves on in a couple of years. Furthermore, being a "captain of the ship" HC would make the OC spot more attractive for the young, innovative offensive minds from around the league/college ranks.

I'd be OK with that if that were the hand we were dealt.  It worked for us in 2017 and we are dealing with the wake of that now without Reich.  Unfortunately, we have failed horribly to find decent offensive assistants.  It went from bad with Groh to silly with whatever it is we have now.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Well, a 6'2" 230lb RB isn't going to have much of a future in the NFL outside of RB rotations, unless someone out there is secretly coveting the next Brandon Jacobs or Eddie George, 2 decades later.

Big backs that can't change direction should be left in the 80s.

Henry is the exception because of his speed and he's not as stiff for a guy that's 250.

Most 250 guys move like brandon jacobs not Henery

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Well, a 6'2" 230lb RB isn't going to have much of a future in the NFL outside of RB rotations, unless someone out there is secretly coveting the next Brandon Jacobs or Eddie George, 2 decades later.

You do realize that Jacobs was 6'4 265 and George was 6'3 240.  Harris is far more comparable to someone like Zeke or Barkley in terms of size and stature than a Jacobs type, with George somewhere in the middle.

Speaking of Brandon Jacobs never forget 

 

6 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

You do realize that Jacobs was 6'4 265 and George was 6'3 240.  Harris is far more comparable to someone like Zeke or Barkley in terms of size and stature than a Jacobs type, with George somewhere in the middle.

Najee Harris is 6'2" 230

Barkley and Zeke are 6 ft even 

2 extra inches may not seem like a big deal but my wife disagrees 😉