33 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Many of us on here have been calling for one voice and a philosophy from the Eagles.  The org reflects the GM - the strategy drifts on the wind based on the advisor du jour and the owner dipping his hand in on his favourites.  The saying, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes springs to mind.

Lurie will do all he can to avoid it, but his boy needs to be removed from power and he has to accept that he will never sniff a SB while the current many heads approach is in place. It worked once, but the results after are incredibly mediocre.  It needs fresh eyes, fresh energy and a clear structure and accountability. 

Let's give Lurie credit for bringing Howie back in 2016.  There's no question that Howie helped build a great team with some terrific moves in order to land Wentz and then trade Bradford.  Bringing in Pederson and getting Schwartz as coaches were great. This dynamic, however, is the result of that success.  Part of it is because Howie is still not a football guy and "relies" on people like Weidl or Douglas in a way that absolves him of authority and responsibility.  I just hope Lurie realizes that 2017 is past and this dynamic will not work any longer.  

14 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Let's give Lurie credit for bringing Howie back in 2016.  There's no question that Howie helped build a great team with some terrific moves in order to land Wentz and then trade Bradford.  Bringing in Pederson and getting Schwartz as coaches were great. This dynamic, however, is the result of that success.  Part of it is because Howie is still not a football guy and "relies" on people like Weidl or Douglas in a way that absolves him of authority and responsibility.  I just hope Lurie realizes that 2017 is past and this dynamic will not work any longer.  

Whatever juju they had to put that 2017 season together... it is long dead now.  Credit where credit is due.  They got it done, and for that they will always be heroes in this town.    BUT... it might help their legacy of being the ones to end the drought to move on now before it gets worse.  

As Freddie Shiro once said, "Win today and we walk together forever"... and they will, and in the hearts of Eagles' fans everywhere.

But, living in the past is one of the issues the Flyers suffered with nearly 3 decades.  They embraced what made that group special and wouldn't let it go.  The God Bless America thing... nice and all, but that was the 1974-1975 teams, not the 1997 team, 2011 or whatever.   Why drag it out all the time?  Same for the Eagles... they need to pull the plug on the 2017 team.  It was a great run, but it's over now.  Turn the page.

Why have I been reading a few negatives about Jamarr Chase in here?  I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, because he looks to be the best college receiver and highest rated WR prospect since maybe Amari Cooper.  But now we don't want him because:

1) Justin Jefferson had a great rookie year so Chase must not be good, or:

2) The Eagles have a shot to get him, so now he sucks.  

You can't pass on a talent like this at a position like this.  For once, stop overthinking it and go with the obvious choice.  

5 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Why have I been reading a few negatives about Jamarr Chase in here?  I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, because he looks to be the best college receiver and highest rated WR prospect since maybe Amari Cooper.  But now we don't want him because:

1) Justin Jefferson had a great rookie year so Chase must not be good, or:

2) The Eagles have a shot to get him, so now he sucks.  

You can't pass on a talent like this at a position like this.  For once, stop overthinking it and go with the obvious choice.  

Don’t need Ja’Marr, already have J’Jaw we’re fine 

I think some people are being a little harsh towards Lurie.  You have to place yourself in his shoes post-Chip Kelly.

That lead-by-consensus dynamic absolutely worked after Chip, who was power hungry, and when we had a bunch of unproven coaches.  But over time it got stale, there were power grabs, and it went to S. Thats where Lurie failed, to identify when the structure needed to change with the state of the organization

You have to look at the environment in whic the decisions were made.  Like now, some people are clamoring for a Chip Kelly type.  The pendulum has swung.

But overall, Lurie has been an engaged and good owner 

32 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Let's give Lurie credit for bringing Howie back in 2016.  There's no question that Howie helped build a great team with some terrific moves in order to land Wentz and then trade Bradford.  Bringing in Pederson and getting Schwartz as coaches were great. This dynamic, however, is the result of that success.  Part of it is because Howie is still not a football guy and "relies" on people like Weidl or Douglas in a way that absolves him of authority and responsibility.  I just hope Lurie realizes that 2017 is past and this dynamic will not work any longer.  

Agreed

And think of Lurie, a non football guy, having to do the forensics on this, figuring out who to trust and who to blame.  

No coincidence that hes bringing in outsiders as consultants, to try and bring clarity to this mess and piece together what happened

8 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Why have I been reading a few negatives about Jamarr Chase in here?  I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, because he looks to be the best college receiver and highest rated WR prospect since maybe Amari Cooper.  But now we don't want him because:

1) Justin Jefferson had a great rookie year so Chase must not be good, or:

2) The Eagles have a shot to get him, so now he sucks.  

You can't pass on a talent like this at a position like this.  For once, stop overthinking it and go with the obvious choice.  

There are always contrarians — in many cases I’m one of them.

WR1 is such a glaring need for this offense, though.  To be competitive you need to score 30 points with regularity.  The Eagles are incapable of even doing it occasionally.  As bad as the defense is, before the secondary got depleted with injury it was a top-15 group — especially once Gerry went out.  This draft looks deep enough at CB to get a good one at pick #38, and there are quite a few good safeties as well.  I don’t see the WR class being as deep as it was last season; it looks top-heavy to me.

Remember, next season Jeffery is gone, Jackson is gone, JJAW is gone.  Is Hightower good enough to make the 53-man roster in 2021.  Quez?  I’d like to see them both make it, but they’re not locks to be contributors.  Ward needs to be upgraded on.

2 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Heard this take...

Doug is a good coach that is having a bad 2020, whereas Howie is a mediocre GM that had a great 2017.

Thoughts?

I just don't understand how anyone with eyes thinks that he is a good coach.  He has proven in all 10 losses this year that he has absolutely no idea how to make adjustments throughout a game, and without looking at it, he has probably been outcoached in every 2nd half in every single game this season.  2017 was the perfect storm.  Time to move on.  

6 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I just don't understand how anyone with eyes thinks that he is a good coach.  He has proven in all 10 losses this year that he has absolutely no idea how to make adjustments throughout a game, and without looking at it, he has probably been outcoached in every 2nd half in every single game this season.  2017 was the perfect storm.  Time to move on.  

All I have to give you is 1 stat.

Since Hurts became the starter, the Eagles have scored on 2 of 18 second half possessions.

3 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I just don't understand how anyone with eyes thinks that he is a good coach.  He has proven in all 10 losses this year that he has absolutely no idea how to make adjustments throughout a game, and without looking at it, he has probably been outcoached in every 2nd half in every single game this season.  2017 was the perfect storm.  Time to move on.  

This is my thinking as well.  Any move that is influenced by the Super Bowl 52 win at this point is the wrong move.  This organization needs to get hungry to do it again like it’s the first time.

2 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Was 2017 really a Howie thing or a Joe Douglas thing (or a combination of both together)?

Joe Douglas's only contribution to that team would have been Derek Barnett because of his plays in the NFC championship game and the lucky strip sack recovery that fell into his lap.  

Chip Kelly had a much bigger contribution to 2017 than Joe Douglas.  

Reading between the lines, I think Lurie and Howie gave Pederson more power in 2018 and 2019, saw the team spiraling down, and pulled back on the reins this season.

Extending Jeffrey, for example, doesn't sound like a Howie move, but Pederson is a player's coach who prefers veterans.

Putting a lot of money into DTs sounds like Schwartz lobbying.

We'll have a better idea when Lurie fires Pederson, Howie or both - because he's probably the only one who really knows how the decisions were made.

To me, Howie is the consensus guy who tries to do what his people want done, and it works when they have good people who know what they're doing.

Pederson is a HC for a veteran team that needs a light hand, but you want a strong GM.

5 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

PLEASE. TELL. ME. THEY. AREN'T. THIS. STUPID!

You're reading too deep into this.  He's ready for parts of team work drills.  They're giving him the opportunity to do stuff in legal fashion within the CBA.  I mentioned it a week or so ago, if you watch the videos he posts on instagram, he's already sprinting and doing footwork drills.  These aren't the droids you're looking for.

34 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Why have I been reading a few negatives about Jamarr Chase in here?  I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, because he looks to be the best college receiver and highest rated WR prospect since maybe Amari Cooper.  But now we don't want him because:

1) Justin Jefferson had a great rookie year so Chase must not be good, or:

2) The Eagles have a shot to get him, so now he sucks.  

You can't pass on a talent like this at a position like this.  For once, stop overthinking it and go with the obvious choice.  

I'll mention that I'm wary of him for sitting out the full season.

5 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

You're reading too deep into this.  He's ready for parts of team work drills.  They're giving him the opportunity to do stuff in legal fashion within the CBA.  I mentioned it a week or so ago, if you watch the videos he posts on instagram, he's already sprinting and doing footwork drills.  These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Well yea, I posted this within seconds of the tweet so it was a reactionary take. I still think it’s kind of pointless though 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Doug and Jeff Mclane should be the first ones up in the offseason to do the feats of strength.  

8 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Joe Douglas's only contribution to that team would have been Derek Barnett because of his plays in the NFC championship game and the lucky strip sack recovery that fell into his lap.  

Chip Kelly had a much bigger contribution to 2017 than Joe Douglas.  

Blount, Long, Robinson, Wis, Smith, Jeffery, Foles, Jernigan and Ajayi were all acquired in 2017 and were all pretty big in that championship run though 

13 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Joe Douglas's only contribution to that team would have been Derek Barnett because of his plays in the NFC championship game and the lucky strip sack recovery that fell into his lap.  

Chip Kelly had a much bigger contribution to 2017 than Joe Douglas.  

He was also supposedly connected to Alshon Jeffery.   So... we can thank him for 2017... and then blame him for what happened after that.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Blount, Long, Robinson, Wis, Smith, Jeffery, Foles, Jernigan and Ajayi were all acquired in 2017 and were all pretty big in that championship run though 

Agreed, but wasn't Joe Douglas only in charge of the draft?  And Howie was the one in charge of all free agents/trades?  I don't have a source for that, but I've read it multiple times and thought that was the way they were structured.  

Actually, now that I think about it, we can add Clement someone Joe Douglas most likely had a hand in picking as an UDFA.  

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Reading between the lines, I think Lurie and Howie gave Pederson more power in 2018 and 2019, saw the team spiraling down, and pulled back on the reins this season.

Extending Jeffrey, for example, doesn't sound like a Howie move, but Pederson is a player's coach who prefers veterans.

Putting a lot of money into DTs sounds like Schwartz lobbying.

We'll have a better idea when Lurie fires Pederson, Howie or both - because he's probably the only one who really knows how the decisions were made.

To me, Howie is the consensus guy who tries to do what his people want done, and it works when they have good people who know what they're doing.

Pederson is a HC for a veteran team that needs a light hand, but you want a strong GM.

Well... now we know how it will be spun on Monday. 

2 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Agreed, but wasn't Joe Douglas only in charge of the draft?  And Howie was the one in charge of all free agents/trades?  I don't have a source for that, but I've read it multiple times and thought that was the way they were structured.  

Actually, now that I think about it, we can add Clement someone Joe Douglas most likely had a hand in picking as an UDFA.  

He was VP of player personnel so I’d think he had some input on all players, but who knows with this organization. We can’t even get a clear answer if the coach is allowed to bench players or not. 

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Well yea, I posted this within seconds of the tweet so it was a reactionary take. I still think it’s kind of pointless though 

Far from pointless, remove any notion that he's gonna play or be out there in contact drills.  This is strictly part of his rehab timeline.  He doesn't count against roster numbers or anything.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well... now we know how it will be spun on Monday. 

I guess Afan is putting it out there as as trial to see if they can pin the bad contracts on Doug.

2 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Far from pointless, remove any notion that he's gonna play or be out there in contact drills.  This is strictly part of his rehab timeline.  He doesn't count against roster numbers or anything.

Pointless because it’s only two days, and in a normal season this would never happen or be a step in his rehab program. In the grand scheme of things I don’t see this swaying anything one way or another. I guess pointless is the wrong word. It’s just whatever. 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I guess Afan is putting it out there as as trial to see if they can pin the bad contracts on Doug.

Its just ridiculous.    Even if Doug is the one who wanted these players... he's not the one who structures the deals.   But can someone tell me what it will take for Howie to actually take responsibility for anything?

 

I said it a couple days ago, but I'll say it again... If Howie gets credit for 2017, then he gets credit for the mess we're in.   If he doesn't, then get rid of him anyway, because he's not bringing anything to the table anyway, besides being a playmate for Lurie.