10 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I really don't think the medical staff is the problem, it's the strength and conditioning staff.  They aren't preparing the players bodies the right way.  It isn't like guys aren't recovering or they are misdiagnosing injuries.  DP is the one who sucks at telling us the truth about injuries.  We were told Nate Gerry had an ankle injury.  That ankle injury was surgery on his Achilles.  Huge difference in thinking it could be a sprain/fracture vs. major surgery.  

 

Josh Hingst is your problem.  He's been the Strength & Conditioning coach since 2013.  

 

To strength and conditioning team has very little, if anything, to do with all of these injuries. 

1 minute ago, greend said:

Do you think teams are hitting 100% in pre-season games? 

No but working from 80-90% is a lot better to prepare you body then no hitting at all then all of a sudden your taking the full 100% in a game. 

Same thing goes with non contact. When you are not making those cuts, digging in at min 75+% during practice, when you body does it at full speed in a game its a higher chance at an injury. Goes for both sides of the ball. Ive  seen it myself as a ex player. You have to prepare your body for the real thing or close to it. Pushing back only makes it worst. 

I just cant stand Dougs practice habits with this no hitting at all, 50% speed, and walk throught practices. The preseason bothers me just as much. Successive teams go old school. 1Q game 1, 2Q game 2, 3Q game 3 and then rest. Why go away from what works? 

2 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

To strength and conditioning team has very little, if anything, to do with all of these injuries. 

How do you figure that. Soft tissue injuries are mostly conditioning.

The medical staff has less to do with the injuries as they don't get the player until after he's injured.

1 minute ago, DeathByEagle said:

No but working from 80-90% is a lot better to prepare you body then no hitting at all then all of a sudden your taking the full 100% in a game. 

Same thing goes with non contact. When you are not making those cuts, digging in at min 75+% during practice, when you body does it at full speed in a game its a higher chance at an injury. Goes for both sides of the ball. Ive  seen it myself as a ex player. You have to prepare your body for the real thing or close to it. Pushing back only makes it worst. 

I just cant stand Dougs practice habits with this no hitting at all, 50% speed, and walk throught practices. The preseason bothers me just as much. Successive teams go old school. 1Q game 1, 2Q game 2, 3Q game 3 and then rest. Why go away from what works? 

See I disagree. I think players are trying to play 100% for the most part in pre-season. I don't think not playing in pre-season games makes 1 bit of difference to injury in fact in might even give you a higher chance for injury. I do think it gives you slow starts though.

27 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I dont think Howie is doing it by choice though. This teams injuries the last 3 years have been insane, record setting. Hes trying the best he can to fill a roster 5-7 times over after the next guy goes down. Not easy. So yes half the roster is JAGS but not by choice, its more forced on to him year in and year out. You have to again give him credit for putting together anything this year and the past two years and making playoffs. FYI To me PS guys are just as much JAGS as UDFAs. 

I still think a lot of our injury problems have to do with Dougs practice and preseason habits. When you practice light/soft, your body is not prepared for those hits, those cuts etc. Your at a higher amount of injury risk when your first 100% action is live in the game. I cant stand Doug saying they are doing walk throughts early in the week and they need to ease up even more. Never playing your starters in preseason games etc. Just blows my mind. There is a reason some of the least injury teams and team that go farther in the playoffs are teams that practice harder, more fully speed and play starters in the preseason. 

He is forced to sign JAGs because his draft picks can't step up and fill in for injured guys.  Look at the o-line this year.  14 different combinations?

Over the last 8 drafts they have drafted 10 "offensive lineman".  I put that in quotes because 2 were defensive lineman and 1 was a rugby player.  So essentially they drafted 7 college offensive lineman over the last 8 drafts.  When that is what you come away with in the draft then UDFA are going to be heavily relied on.

2013- Round 1, Lane Johnson.  Elite

2014- Round 5, Taylor Hart.  Drafted as a d-tackle, then moved to O-line.  Not exactly an investment in the line.

2015- Round 7, Brian Mihalik.  College d-end project for tackle.

2016- Round 3, Isaac Seumalo.  High draft pick turned in to a starter...go figure.

2016- Round 4, Big V.  Mid-level draft pick developed in to swing tackle essential in SB run.

2017- none

2018- Round 6, Matt Pryor.  Should have been cut long ago.  Disaster.

2018- Round 7, Jordan Mailata.  Not exactly investing but a gamble/project that is working out very well.  Potential starter for decade.

2019- Round 1, Andre Dillard.  Jury is still out but not promising for a 1st round tackle.  However, the effort to improve the line was there in round 1.

2020- Round 4, Jack Driscoll.  Could be new swing tackle.  Same round as Big V.  Round 4 is essential for depth players.

2020- Round 6, Tega Wanogho.  Good prospect with injuries.  Late round lottery ticket.  

 

If they had any clue on how to draft we wouldn't be relying on JAGs.

 

6 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

To strength and conditioning team has very little, if anything, to do with all of these injuries. 

Strength & Conditioning 100% has to do with lots of these injuries.  How many hamstring and soft tissue issues have we had?  It's maddening.  Not saying that S&C is the root cause of all of them but he's been the one constant over all these years.  Much like Howie has been the 1 constant in building the roster.  

 

14 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

He is forced to sign JAGs because his draft picks can't step up and fill in for injured guys.  Look at the o-line this year.  14 different combinations?

 

Your giving a perfect example of how he actually made it work though

Why have we had 14 different combinations? Injuries, well and Doug being brain dead at some points of the season. 

We went through 4 of the 5 starters getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt again. We went through all the backups getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt. You have to admit, some of these guys didnt look bad. Mailata, Herbig, Driscoll look like solid players, esp in a backup role. Dillard we still have no clue. Thats actually more you can say about most other teams. Our 3rd and 4th backups have looked better then some teams 1st and 2nd teams.

You cant just draft the same positions over and over with your higher draft picks. I think the Oline depth has been surprisingly a positive given the situations we have been in this year. We saw that we do have some solid backups in there. You also can blame Doug for a lot of these different combinations. Everyone at times thought he was brain dead for putting certain players over others on the bench creating even more combination changes. 

I get it, you hate Howie. yes He is flawed, but you have to give him credit where credit is do and Oline has had some really good surprises in depth that we found out this year. Credit to him and the oline coaching staff. 

2 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Your giving a perfect example of how he actually made it work though

Why have we had 14 different combinations? Injuries, well and Doug being brain dead at some points of the season. 

We went through 4 of the 5 starters getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt again. We went through all the backups getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt. You have to admit, some of these guys didnt look bad. Mailata, Herbig, Driscoll look like solid players, esp in a backup role. Dillard we still have no clue. Thats actually more you can say about most other teams. Our 3rd and 4th backups have looked better then some teams 1st and 2nd teams.

You cant just draft the same positions over and over with your higher draft picks. I think the Oline depth has been surprisingly a positive given the situations we have been in this year. We saw that we do have some solid backups in there. You also can blame Doug for a lot of these different combinations. Everyone at times thought he was brain dead for putting certain players over others on the bench creating even more combination changes. 

Testament to Stoutland.

4 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Your giving a perfect example of how he actually made it work though

Why have we had 14 different combinations? Injuries, well and Doug being brain dead at some points of the season. 

We went through 4 of the 5 starters getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt again. We went through all the backups getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt. You have to admit, some of these guys didnt look bad. Mailata, Herbig, Driscoll look like solid players, esp in a backup role. Dillard we still have no clue. Thats actually more you can say about most other teams. Our 3rd and 4th backups have looked better then some teams 1st and 2nd teams.

You cant just draft the same positions over and over with your higher draft picks. I think the Oline depth has been surprisingly a positive given the situations we have been in this year. We saw that we do have some solid backups in there. You also can blame Doug for a lot of these different combinations. Everyone at times thought he was brain dead for putting certain players over others on the bench creating even more combination changes. 

I get it, you hate Howie. yes He is flawed, but you have to give him credit where credit is do and Oline has had some really good surprises in depth that we found out this year. Credit to him and the oline coaching staff. 

I'm not trying to hate on Howie.  I agree with you that he has done a good job at finding UDFA to come in and contribute.  I just think we've relied on that too much.  I don't want them to draft 3 lineman per year...especially for a team that lacks serious playmakers on both sides of the ball.  However, when your investment in the draft includes 2 d-lineman and a rugby player (I'm thrilled with Mailata, just for the point of the investment argument) leaving you with only 7 true lineman drafted in 8 years I think that's a problem.  

This isn't just me complaining now either.  We can go back and look at draft analysis and conversations about how the Eagles failed to fill the cupboard at OG.  Now we are going to be facing that same issue with Kelce.  We are RELYING on guys like Juriga to potentially replace him.  We could have drafted his replacement this year instead of trading with the Cowboys allowing them to take Tyler Biadasz.  

There are so many valid criticisms of the Eagles, that I don't understand why people would choose to attack the OL. The OL is one of the few bright spots year in, year out. 

6 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Your giving a perfect example of how he actually made it work though

Why have we had 14 different combinations? Injuries, well and Doug being brain dead at some points of the season. 

We went through 4 of the 5 starters getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt again. We went through all the backups getting hurt, coming back, getting hurt. You have to admit, some of these guys didnt look bad. Mailata, Herbig, Driscoll look like solid players, esp in a backup role. Dillard we still have no clue. Thats actually more you can say about most other teams. Our 3rd and 4th backups have looked better then some teams 1st and 2nd teams.

You cant just draft the same positions over and over with your higher draft picks. I think the Oline depth has been surprisingly a positive given the situations we have been in this year. We saw that we do have some solid backups in there. You also can blame Doug for a lot of these different combinations. Everyone at times thought he was brain dead for putting certain players over others on the bench creating even more combination changes. 

I get it, you hate Howie. yes He is flawed, but you have to give him credit where credit is do and Oline has had some really good surprises in depth that we found out this year. Credit to him and the oline coaching staff. 

When a team has been bleeding talent for this long, it needs impact players, at any position.  You can't just have "solid depth" on your offensive line and be great.  You need to be great on your offensive line.  You need to be great on your defensive line.  And you need to have difference makers.  I don't care if the Eagles have to keep drafting OL and DL, they need to get it right first before we worry about other positions.  As Eagles fans, we understand the lines and the QB come first.  We have seen this work.  Look at how the Giants used to do things... they would prioritize the lines and QB.  Went to and won several super bowls.  They would have the best D line in the league, and then in round 1 they would take Matthais Kiwanuka.  Something changed.  The sons took over, they hired the wrong people, started drafting a lot of other positions higher and more frequently.  Missed on the OL/DL evaluations.  Spend the last decade more or less picking in the top 10.

Can't focus on what you have on the team, when you are in a rebuild.  You need the best players.  It will work itself out.  Also need to prioritize the positions appropriately, and understand how badly the team needs difference makers, at any position.  It's about BPA, it's about adding talent, period.  It's not about finding that final safety, that starting LB for next year, or that running back to give the offense a boost.  Good teams have that luxury.  That time has passed for the Eagles.  We are now in a new phase.

Howie Roseman has been the most ineffective GM in the NFL, by almost any measure, for years now.  Drafting, trades, roster construction, contracts, cap planning, important strategic decisions... he has failed across the board.  Supporting the job he has done is an indefensible position at this point.  You can apply credit for hitting on 7th round draft picks or UDFAs, but it is not like he has found any Jason Kelce's or Trent Coles.  We have one guy (Mailata) who looks like after 3 years he may be developing into something.  It's not like we have pro bowlers in the works.  Finding depth with late draft picks and UDFAs is what you are supposed to do.  None of that comes close to making up for the amount of blown high draft picks, questionable decisions, awful contracts etc.

If you need a more definitive review, you can find one here:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-stay-or-go-howie-roseman-2020-0599970/

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm not trying to hate on Howie.  I agree with you that he has done a good job at finding UDFA to come in and contribute.  I just think we've relied on that too much.  I don't want them to draft 3 lineman per year...especially for a team that lacks serious playmakers on both sides of the ball.  However, when your investment in the draft includes 2 d-lineman and a rugby player (I'm thrilled with Mailata, just for the point of the investment argument) leaving you with only 7 true lineman drafted in 8 years I think that's a problem.  

This isn't just me complaining now either.  We can go back and look at draft analysis and conversations about how the Eagles failed to fill the cupboard at OG.  Now we are going to be facing that same issue with Kelce.  We are RELYING on guys like Juriga to potentially replace him.  We could have drafted his replacement this year instead of trading with the Cowboys allowing them to take Tyler Biadasz.  

I fully agree on that one. Was thinking the same during the draft when it happened. Plus they traded that pick 164 down the line as well that turned into nothing. Now we did land Driscoll with the pick right before. He looks like a positive. Lets just hope that 5th rounder we picked up from Dallas in this years draft turns into something. Hope is the key of course. 

1 hour ago, greend said:

She's 86 now so you probably have a chance

So you’re  saying there’s a chance!! 😆😆

13 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm not trying to hate on Howie.  I agree with you that he has done a good job at finding UDFA to come in and contribute.  I just think we've relied on that too much.  I don't want them to draft 3 lineman per year...especially for a team that lacks serious playmakers on both sides of the ball.  However, when your investment in the draft includes 2 d-lineman and a rugby player (I'm thrilled with Mailata, just for the point of the investment argument) leaving you with only 7 true lineman drafted in 8 years I think that's a problem.  

This isn't just me complaining now either.  We can go back and look at draft analysis and conversations about how the Eagles failed to fill the cupboard at OG.  Now we are going to be facing that same issue with Kelce.  We are RELYING on guys like Juriga to potentially replace him.  We could have drafted his replacement this year instead of trading with the Cowboys allowing them to take Tyler Biadasz.  

I felt at the time, and still believe it today, that Driscoll's best position in the NFL will be center.

5 minutes ago, John_C said:

When a team has been bleeding talent for this long, it needs impact players, at any position.  You can't just have "solid depth" on your offensive line and be great.  You need to be great on your offensive line.  You need to be great on your defensive line.  And you need to have difference makers.  I don't care if the Eagles have to keep drafting OL and DL, they need to get it right first before we worry about other positions.  As Eagles fans, we understand the lines and the QB come first.  We have seen this work.  Look at how the Giants used to do things... they would prioritize the lines and QB.  Went to and won several super bowls.  They would have the best D line in the league, and then in round 1 they would take Matthais Kiwanuka.  Something changed.  The sons took over, they hired the wrong people, started drafting a lot of other positions higher and more frequently.  Missed on the OL/DL evaluations.  Spend the last decade more or less picking in the top 10.

Can't focus on what you have on the team, when you are in a rebuild.  You need the best players.  It will work itself out.  Also need to prioritize the positions appropriately, and understand how badly the team needs difference makers, at any position.  It's about BPA, it's about adding talent, period.  It's not about finding that final safety, that starting LB for next year, or that running back to give the offense a boost.  Good teams have that luxury.  That time has passed for the Eagles.  We are now in a new phase.

Howie Roseman has been the most ineffective GM in the NFL, by almost any measure, for years now.  Drafting, trades, roster construction, contracts, cap planning, important strategic decisions... he has failed across the board.  Supporting the job he has done is an indefensible position at this point.  You can apply credit for hitting on 7th round draft picks or UDFAs, but it is not like he has found any Jason Kelce's or Trent Coles.  We have one guy (Mailata) who looks like after 3 years he may be developing into something.  It's not like we have pro bowlers in the works.  Finding depth with late draft picks and UDFAs is what you are supposed to do.  None of that comes close to making up for the amount of blown high draft picks, questionable decisions, awful contracts etc.

If you need a more definitive review, you can find one here:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-stay-or-go-howie-roseman-2020-0599970/

So your saying that our starters this year if they were healthy were not one of the best on paper in the NFL? Id say our Oline is very good with our starter 5. 

What Im getting your your first few sentences is that we need to have HOFer backups as well and that good backups........, Ill repeat, good backups are not enough. 

 

I think some peoples hate for Howie is clouding the subject more and people dont want to give him any credit where it is do. He has his problems but Oline is far from it. 

13 minutes ago, RLC said:

There are so many valid criticisms of the Eagles, that I don't understand why people would choose to attack the OL. The OL is one of the few bright spots year in, year out. 

I would hardly call the o-line a bright spot.  The only true bright spot is Mailata and we don't even know what his role is going to be next year.

Driscoll, swing tackle.  We knew this when they drafted him.

Herbig has been ehh.  He looks like the fat kid forced to play football at this point.  He needs to be in Brandon Brooks shadow this summer and train with him.

Who else is a bright spot?  Pryor, Juriga, Opeta, Brown

Dillard wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire in camp.

Seumalo still isn't consistent.  Some games he looks like a good starter other games it's WTF.

Kelce hasn't been invisible either.  He's had a bunch of bad snaps which is strange for him.

Lane Johnson and Brandon Brooks are now injury prone players and hard to depend on.  

Jason Peters played for some reason.

 

Not trying to be negative, just trying to understand what other bright spots there were on the o-line.

3 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

So your saying that our starters this year if they were healthy were not one of the best on paper in the NFL? Id say our Oline is very good with our starter 5. 

What Im getting your your first few sentences is that we need to have HOFer backups as well and that good backups........, Ill repeat, good backups are not enough. 

 

I think some peoples hate for Howie is clouding the subject more and people dont want to give him any credit where it is do. He has his problems but Oline is far from it. 

"has his problems" is one way to put it.  

The offensive line has sustained multiple serious injuries for multiple years.  Part of the risk you take with older players is that they will break down.  

Where does it leave the Eagles next year if Kelce retires, Lane is much less effective with whatever this ankle injury is and Brooks is not the same player?  What does the line look like 2-3 years out?  I agree the Eagles have done a good job prioritizing the line appropriately.  My argument is that they have some question marks coming up, and future planning to do, even if things work out.  We don't know what Dillard is, especially with the reported issues with his mentality and toughness.  Mailata is a revelation, hopefully he continues to develop.  Is Driscoll the future?  Herbig?  Those guys showed some promise, but did not look like locks to be top players.  

That said, I would not cross off the offensive line and say the Eagles don't need any help there.  Quite the contrary.  Prioritize the offensive and defensive line and QB first, as all good teams do... and if you end up with too many good players it will sort itself out.  Of course, that pretty much never happens.

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

No it's not.  Ertz got hurt,  and also didn't care about playing.  And Jackson got hurt.  

Miles Sanders supposedly worked on route running and pass catching all off-season and seemed less utilized in the passing game than last year. 

 

Is built around other players who let us down. 

Sanders is not good in the passing game.  
 

Jackson getting hurt was an inevitability.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

I see the conversations going back and forth about drafting talent, finding talent,etc. 

 

Has anyone thought some of our picks may be a lot better then we think but because the lack of game plan it makes them look bad.

Doug runs the same plays no matter the player. What works for Agholar may not have worked for Golden Tate. (they told us this.)

So maybe someone like Quez Watkins is the next coming of Tyrik Hill but because the coaches cant spot talent, and cant put him in positions to win, he looks like a bust

100%.  We had the discussion a few days back that the Eagles almost refuse to play to their players strengths.  It's a huge problem.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Sanders is not good in the passing game.  
 

Jackson getting hurt was an inevitability.

Sanders was good in the passing game just last season.  Not sure why he regressed in that department this year.

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

Not that theyre model citizens but Scandrik, JJAW, Mack Hollins, Golden Tate and Nelson Agholar all said the same thing. 

We dont know our true defined roles. they dont know how to use us. etc. 

Don;t forget Will Parks.  In 3 games with the Broncos he has 15 tackles and a sack.  He didn't handle himself the best after getting cut but he can clearly be a productive player.  

Something weird happened with him.  He was touted as the 12th starter on the team with the big role he was going to play.  Got hurt then couldn't see the field. 

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Sanders is not good in the passing game.  
 

Jackson getting hurt was an inevitability.

That was a huge disappointment for me.

In the first half of his rookie season, he sucked running the ball, but made big plays in the passing game. As he developed as a runner, he continued to make plays as a pass catcher. Then this offseason there were all these reports about him working on route running and pass catching. I thought we would end up seeing him used like Westbrook/Faulk/Tomlison. Instead he was utilized less as a pass catcher. And we never got to see him line up out wide or in the slot at all. And, yes his performance as a pass catcher regressed when he did have opportunities. 

At least he became amazing running the ball. When he wasnt fumbling. 

10 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Don;t forget Will Parks.  In 3 games with the Broncos he has 15 tackles and a sack.  He didn't handle himself the best after getting cut but he can clearly be a productive player.  

Something weird happened with him.  He was touted as the 12th starter on the team with the big role he was going to play.  Got hurt then couldn't see the field. 

Except for Stoutland, it appears we have zero coaches on this team that can develop players or coach to their strengths.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Except for Stoutland, it appears we have zero coaches on this team that can develop players or coach to their strengths.

I give credit to Duce and the running backs as well. His issue is Doug wont be consistent with the run game to prove it. 

26 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

100%.  We had the discussion a few days back that the Eagles almost refuse to play to their players strengths.  It's a huge problem.

Development is a major issue with me. We can’t find a couple stable to adequate guys in the secondary for the past 4 years? There’s a few guys doing OK with other clubs.