3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Except for Stoutland, it appears we have zero coaches on this team that can develop players or coach to their strengths.

I think we have Stoutland up on too high of a pedestal.  He's done wonders with Mailata but who else has really improved?  Has he coached up Herbig? Opeta?  Juriga?  

He's done a nice job making sure they go out there on Sunday's but I don't see players really developing to be honest. 

Look back at Pryor's rookie year.  He was being touted as a possible starter at OG.  He's regressed every year.

Seumalo hasn't really improved.  He's just sort of steady but at the same time can give you a stinker of a game.  Has Stoutland got the best out of him?

When Driscoll was drafted he had the skill to be a swing lineman.  

He has the luxury of coaching HOF Peters (when he was good), Kelce, Brooks and Lane...all top performers at their position.  Top talent to coach.  I don't think Stoutland make them what they are.

Don't get me wrong, Stoutland is probably the best coach the Eagles have but I also don't think he's invincible.  

 

5 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

So his regression is the eye test.  Got it.  

 

The Mariota comparison is bizarre actually.  He’s thicker.  Stronger arm.  Doesn’t run near as much.   And doesn’t play in a gimmicky offense.  I mean they both play QB, so I guess you have a point.   

Crazy thought.  Surprised no one brought it up before.   

Stats > tape, got it.  Jags better pick Trask #1 overall then!!! 

The kids a twig, I said his arm was stronger and they averaged the same number of rushing attempts per game in college.  

Keep going though since you're actually right about them both playing QB and Clemson's O is slightly more NFL style...I'm saying he's not a can't miss prospect in response to people wanting to trade the next 40 years of draft picks.

12 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I give credit to Duce and the running backs as well. His issue is Doug wont be consistent with the run game to prove it. 

Not sure about that.  They all seem to have regressed in pass pro.  Sanders' fumbling hasn't improved.  Sanders involvement in the passing game has diminished, and he's dropping the ball way too much.

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think we have Stoutland up on too high of a pedestal.  He's done wonders with Mailata but who else has really improved?  Has he coached up Herbig? Opeta?  Juriga?  

He's done a nice job making sure they go out there on Sunday's but I don't see players really developing to be honest. 

Look back at Pryor's rookie year.  He was being touted as a possible starter at OG.  He's regressed every year.

Seumalo hasn't really improved.  He's just sort of steady but at the same time can give you a stinker of a game.  Has Stoutland got the best out of him?

When Driscoll was drafted he had the skill to be a swing lineman.  

He has the luxury of coaching HOF Peters (when he was good), Kelce, Brooks and Lane...all top performers at their position.  Top talent to coach.  I don't think Stoutland make them what they are.

Don't get me wrong, Stoutland is probably the best coach the Eagles have but I also don't think he's invincible.  

IMO Seumalo has improved, he did a great job with Vatai, Mailata.  Herbig, Opeta and Juriga are probably suffering from lack of offseason reps.

 

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think we have Stoutland up on too high of a pedestal.  He's done wonders with Mailata but who else has really improved?  Has he coached up Herbig? Opeta?  Juriga?  

He's done a nice job making sure they go out there on Sunday's but I don't see players really developing to be honest. 

Look back at Pryor's rookie year.  He was being touted as a possible starter at OG.  He's regressed every year.

Seumalo hasn't really improved.  He's just sort of steady but at the same time can give you a stinker of a game.  Has Stoutland got the best out of him?

When Driscoll was drafted he had the skill to be a swing lineman.  

He has the luxury of coaching HOF Peters (when he was good), Kelce, Brooks and Lane...all top performers at their position.  Top talent to coach.  I don't think Stoutland make them what they are.

Don't get me wrong, Stoutland is probably the best coach the Eagles have but I also don't think he's invincible.  

 

Herbig, Opeta and Juriga were UDFAs for a reason.   And Yes, Herbig has been coached up and is a qualty backup OG.  He's not a starter, but he's definitely an NFL quality player now.  I can't say that about Opeta or Juriga yet.

Seumalo has absolutely improved.  Yes, he's not perfect, no OL is.  But, he's way better than most of the other dreck they had to throw out there.  And he's absolutely 100% a starting OG NFL player, and likely top half of that group as well.

Driscoll was drafted with the ability to be a swing OT, eh?   Kind of makes you wonder why other teams didn't snap him up then.  ALL rookies entering the league need some coaching to get used to the NFL.  And Driscoll got BETTER as he played more.  He did not look ready in Week 1.  By his last game, even with a nasty sprain, he was still quite capable at RT.  But, he's best suited going inside.

Brooks was not the best OG in the league when he was brought in.  Stoutland took him (a former 4th round pick, btw) and turned him into the best OG in the league.   
Kelce was a 6th round pick, started with Mudd, but Stoutland maintained his level and then he rebuilt him and made him a perennial type All-Pro.

You also forget Vaitai, whom they drafted and he crafted into a great swing OT/OG and maintained the team through the Super Bowl run.  

41 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sanders was good in the passing game just last season.  Not sure why he regressed in that department this year.

It's what Eagles players do

10 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

This can't be. According to the haters he's never been very good. Throwing motion, mechanics, staring down receivers, leaving the pocket early, not seeing the field.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: Yes he had a bad year.

22 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think we have Stoutland up on too high of a pedestal.  He's done wonders with Mailata but who else has really improved?  Has he coached up Herbig? Opeta?  Juriga?  

He's done a nice job making sure they go out there on Sunday's but I don't see players really developing to be honest. 

Look back at Pryor's rookie year.  He was being touted as a possible starter at OG.  He's regressed every year.

Seumalo hasn't really improved.  He's just sort of steady but at the same time can give you a stinker of a game.  Has Stoutland got the best out of him?

When Driscoll was drafted he had the skill to be a swing lineman.  

He has the luxury of coaching HOF Peters (when he was good), Kelce, Brooks and Lane...all top performers at their position.  Top talent to coach.  I don't think Stoutland make them what they are.

Don't get me wrong, Stoutland is probably the best coach the Eagles have but I also don't think he's invincible.  

 

Big disagree with Brooks/Kelce/Johnson.

Johnson - Stoutland and Johnson came together in the same year. Johnson growing up played anywhere from QB to TE to DE. He only switched to OT two years before going pro. He went 4th overall because of his elite athleticism but he was still a project and a gamble. Stoutland made him a star. I don't understand how you can write off Stoutland since he was Johnsons only O Line coach for his career. He developed Johnson beautifully. 

Brooks - Brooks was solid in Houston, but not an all pro. He came here and his game when to completely different level. He became arguably the best RG in the game. You can't just say that all due to Brooks doing it on his own. Stoutland absolutely deserves credit.

Kelce - Kelce was similar to Brooks, he was solid. He was serviceable. Had some ups and had some downs. Never made a pro bowl though or an all pro. No individual accomplishments. Look at what happened after Stoutland came in 2013. Every year after that Kelce was either a pro bowler, first team all pro, or both. You can't say it was just Kelce doing it on his own. Stoutland elevated him to be one of the best centers in the league. 

You can't just write off the top talent because they are stars, especially since they all became top talent after Stoutland was hired. 

4 minutes ago, greend said:

It's what Eagles players do

Sad, but all too true.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Big disagree with Brooks/Kelce/Johnson.

Johnson - Stoutland and Johnson came together in the same year. Johnson growing up played anywhere from QB to TE to DE. He only switched to OT two years before going pro. He went 4th overall because of his elite athleticism but he was still a project and a gamble. Stoutland made him a star. I don't understand how you can write off Stoutland since he was Johnsons only O Line coach for his career. He developed Johnson beautifully. 

Brooks - Brooks was solid in Houston, but not an all pro. He came here and his game when to completely different level. He became arguably the best RG in the game. You can't just say that all due to Brooks doing it on his own. Stoutland absolutely deserves credit.

Kelce - Kelce was similar to Brooks, he was solid. He was serviceable. Had some ups and had some downs. Never made a pro bowl though or an all pro. No individual accomplishments. Look at what happened after Stoutland came in 2013. Every year after that Kelce was either a pro bowler, first team all pro, or both. You can't say it was just Kelce doing it on his own. Stoutland elevated him to be one of the best centers in the league. 

You can't just write off the top talent because they are stars, especially since they all became top talent after Stoutland was hired. 

OK, solid points.  Maybe having them play at such high levels for so long has made me forget how much he's coached them up.  I'm also in a hating today.

We have to bring in a Bills OC to "fix” him, why?

Looks like the Bills know the time is coming for Daboll to be a head coach, hopefully it is here.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/30/sean-mcdermott-excited-brian-daboll-leslie-frazier-may-draw-head-coaching-interest/

Head coach Sean McDermott didn’t say whether that had happened for either coach, but said the Bills will "abide by the rules” whenever they get a request for an interview. He also said that he and General Manager Brandon Beane will do their best to assist Daboll, Frazier, and anyone else’s ascent up the coaching ladder.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

100%.  We had the discussion a few days back that the Eagles almost refuse to play to their players strengths.  It's a huge problem.

Other than Reagor, who can we definitively say we aren’t calling plays or routes that are to their strengths?

Edit: And screens to Ward. 

24 minutes ago, greend said:

This can't be. According to the haters he's never been very good. Throwing motion, mechanics, staring down receivers, leaving the pocket early, not seeing the field.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You forgot to mention he's a ginger...

I'm not sold on just hiring the next "hot" offensive coordinator to be the head coach.  Or the next best exciting college offensive coach.  That is how we ended up with visor moron.

Some of these coordinators will be good or great head coaches.  Some belong as coordinators.  Doug has been a good or great head coach.  He was obviously great in 2017.  We've seen a number of deficiencies since that time.

Bottom line, I want the best HEAD coach.  Leader who establishes culture and leads every aspect of the team.  I don't want someone coming in that cares only about offense and wants to outsource the rest.  That is how you end up with an Adam Gase.

Who would fit the bill?  I have no idea.  I don't know enough about the available coordinators, including Daboll.  There are so many aspects to being a successful head coach.  Who would have thought Joe Judge would be a strong head coach?  Early returns are pretty good with him.

Two guys I would absolutely have interest in, from the college ranks.  Urban Meyer - this is too obvious.  One of the best coaches on the planet, understands and utilizes multiple systems and methods.  Will identify and coach to a team's and players strengths.  Not a gimmick "system" guy (visor moron an excellent example).  I don't think the Eagles will have a prayer, as he will have his pick if he is indeed interested in trying the pros.  Probably will choose Jacksonville and starting with Spicolli.  
If Jim Harbaugh had interest in returning to the pros, I'd be on board.  Had tremendous success before.  Understands the pro game well.  An effective head coach who is likely to succeed again in the right opportunity.

I'm not sure who from the coordinators or the other college coaches to be excited about.  Lincoln Riley will be a popular name, and perhaps he could be a good candidate, but I would need to see a lot more to be convinced.  I'm sure he will have more and more interest as time goes on if he maintains the level of success.

The Bills have been good this season.  They have been on a up trend in last couple seasons.  McDermott turned that team around.  Yet he was let go in the AR era.  Go figure.

Re Stouland as OL coach, he had been billed as a super coach.  IMHO, he has done a fine job though no miracle, as the players' talent play a critical role as well.  It took Mailata 3 seasons to make a starter, partly helped by the injuries to players above him on depth chart.  He came in with off-the-chart physical measurement (He looks like a giant among the fellow OL players) but with no NFL experiment. 

Well, Doug's magical plan to fix this team looks screwed. NFLPA pushing to eliminate OTA's and any non virtual offseason activities 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

My wish list.

Brian Daboll ( Bills OC )

Nate Hacket (Packers OC). 

Nick Siraninni ( Colts OC )

Lincoln Reilly (especially after what he did last night) 

Arthur Smith ( Titans OC )

Re did the list in my order of preference.

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Other than Reagor, who can we definitively say we aren’t calling plays or routes that are to their strengths?

Edit: And screens to Ward. 

Our OL as currently constructed is built to run-block, and against a bottom 3 run D, we passed significantly more than we ran.
Our WRs don't run slants! Given that we have Jeffrey, Reagor, etc. that's crazy.

1 minute ago, Penn7980 said:

The Bills have been good this season.  They have been on a up trend in last couple seasons.  McDermott turned that team around.  Yet he was let go in the AR era.  Go figure.

He had to fill the shoes of a giant, and only had two years experience as a positional coach. He was doomed from the start. 

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Our OL as currently constructed is built to run-block, and against a bottom 3 run D, we passed significantly more than we ran.
Our WRs don't run slants! Given that we have Jeffrey, Reagor, etc. that's crazy.

The slants I’ll give you. We’re just not a good run blocking team. We look better than we are because Sanders popped three long runs. 

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Where do you want me to start?

Goedert seems to be a run down the seam type of guy. a Travis Kelce type. We use him like its 1980, hes 500lbs and he has to go sit in soft zones and never catches the ball on the run. 

You have a top 10 running back in the league who averages 12 rushes a game

You have Wentz who loves play action(see above) love to roll out, love to use his athletics, sprint outs etc.

They sent Alshon on 14 go routes, dudes probably slower than me. (should be quez) 

Quez Watkins had less than 100 snaps 

Reagor has 4 punt returns

Want me to keep going

 

Then there's the defensive side of the ball.

2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

I really don't think the medical staff is the problem, it's the strength and conditioning staff.  They aren't preparing the players bodies the right way.  It isn't like guys aren't recovering or they are misdiagnosing injuries.  DP is the one who sucks at telling us the truth about injuries.  We were told Nate Gerry had an ankle injury.  That ankle injury was surgery on his Achilles.  Huge difference in thinking it could be a sprain/fracture vs. major surgery.  

 

Josh Hingst is your problem.  He's been the Strength & Conditioning coach since 2013.  

 

Is it though? I recall the Eagles being pretty healthy under Chip other than a rash of OL injuries one season.

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Well, Doug's magical plan to fix this team looks screwed. NFLPA pushing to eliminate OTA's and any non virtual offseason activities 

Doug can't even find a way to call more run plays. He had a whole year to try to fix Wentz but couldn't.  We need to move on.  The trajectory of this team is downward.  Frank Reich was a major influence on our success on offense.  Doug is in a rut and has shown no signs of taking steps to getting out of it and his personnel playing time decisions have been highly questionable all year long.  He hasn't been using common sense, especially when it came to giving Jeffery playing time over Fulgham at a point when Fulgham was arguably the hottest WR in the League.