August 12Aug 12 2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:Well, looks like the DSA nutter Hong lost in Wisconsin. thank gawd. Losing the Govship in Wisconsin is not what you'd like heading into '28.I don't see why people think DSA candidates are at a disadvantage vs MAGA in 2026. DSA is taking control of the protectionist/pro union/no-war rhetoric that got Trump elected in '16, they are the ones with the correct message and they don't carry the stink of getting thrashed the past decade by a game show host.
August 12Aug 12 7 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:I don't see why people think DSA candidates are at a disadvantage vs MAGA in 2026. DSA is taking control of the protectionist/pro union/no-war rhetoric that got Trump elected in '16, they are the ones with the correct message and they don't carry the stink of getting thrashed the past decade by a game show host."Pro-union" got Trump elected? I suppose you mean to say Trump was anti-globalist. He was hardly "pro-union" but rather just the opposite.Risking the middle isn't the right formula. Certainly blasting the war and focusing on the economy is part of a winning message but you don't have to do that from the far fringe with candidates that want to do away with the Senate, the police, and thanksgiving.
August 12Aug 12 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:"Pro-union" got Trump elected? I suppose you mean to say Trump was anti-globalist. He was hardly "pro-union" but rather just the opposite.Risking the middle isn't the right formula. Certainly blasting the war and focusing on the economy is part of a winning message but you don't have to do that from the far fringe with candidates that want to do away with the Senate, the police, and thanksgiving.Oh yes he was. It's exactly why he won too. I know it's hard to remember 10 years later but he won the rust belt specifically by promising to tear up NAFTA and rework the trade deals. He had more backing from unions than any other Republican pretty much ever. His coalition has shifted since then but that's how it started."Not risking" the middle is now a decade long proven failed strategy. The definition of insanity is, you know the drill. DSA candidates are culling the anger Trump once owned and using it against him for failing to deliver. That is by far the most winning message Democrats have had in a long time.
August 12Aug 12 Just now, dawkins4prez said:Oh yes he was. It's exactly why he won too. I know it's hard to remember 10 years later but he won the rust belt specifically by promising to tear up NAFTA and rework the trade deals. He had more backing from unions than other Republican pretty much ever. His coalition has shifted since then but that's how it started.I think you are conflating Trump being for support for measures that Unions like vs being pro Union. Trump offered no specific support for Union strength, collective bargaining agreements, right to strike, etc. It was all the indirect stuff like trade agreements, protection from the green economy, etc. He wasn't for them. He simply tricked them just like he tricked everyone else.
August 12Aug 12 Just now, DrPhilly said:I think you are conflating Trump being for support for measures that Unions like vs being pro Union. Trump offered no specific support for Union strength, collective bargaining agreements, right to strike, etc. It was all the indirect stuff like trade agreements, protection from the green economy, etc. He wasn't for them. He simply tricked them just like he tricked everyone else.He tricked them into thinking he was pro union? Yes, that's the point. I'm not the one that conflated, rust belt voters did. And now they are mad the reshoring efforts haven't gone their way. They don't want to go back to globalists democrats who back stabbed them for decades either, but the DSA candidates are actually pro union truebloods.
August 12Aug 12 2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:He tricked them into thinking he was pro union? Yes, that's the point. I'm not the one that conflated, rust belt voters did. And now they are mad the reshoring efforts haven't gone their way. They don't want to go back to globalists democrats who back stabbed them for decades either, but the DSA candidates are actually pro union truebloods.Again, he wasn't pro-union
August 12Aug 12 7 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:Again, he wasn't pro-unionHe was endorsed by about half of the top union organizations, broke the democrat stranglehold on unions in the process. You're arguing silly semantics and ignoring what he won on, and why the DSA candidates are the ones who can fix what he broke.
August 12Aug 12 10 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:He was endorsed by about half of the top union organizations, broke the democrat stranglehold on unions in the process. You're arguing silly semantics and ignoring what he won on, and why the DSA candidates are the ones who can fix what he broke.Some of the DSA guys read pro-union, El-Sayed sells it really well, but Hong just read woke. I'm glad she lost.
August 12Aug 12 20 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:He was endorsed by about half of the top union organizations, broke the democrat stranglehold on unions in the process. You're arguing silly semantics and ignoring what he won on, and why the DSA candidates are the ones who can fix what he broke.Let's try to reframe it then. Trump didn't win the union vote in '16 and he didn't win the African American vote in '24 but he took significant chunks of those votes in both cases and they were significant in his victories. Dems need to learn from both of those situations. Can we agree on that?
August 12Aug 12 28 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:Let's try to reframe it then. Trump didn't win the union vote in '16 and he didn't win the African American vote in '24 but he took significant chunks of those votes in both cases and they were significant in his victories. Dems need to learn from both of those situations. Can we agree on that?Trump won wayyyyy more of the union vote than he did the AA vote. Not a good analogy at all.
August 12Aug 12 2 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:He tricked them into thinking he was pro union? Yes, that's the point. I'm not the one that conflated, rust belt voters did. And now they are mad the reshoring efforts haven't gone their way. They don't want to go back to globalists democrats who back stabbed them for decades either, but the DSA candidates are actually pro union truebloods.The issue is the DSA folks don't do well with blue collar, rust belt types. They are the party of over educated, generally white liberals. The DSA sweet spot: highly educated, downwardly mobileEducation and economic security are usually correlated. But where the relationship breaks down is fertile territory for the new left.
August 12Aug 12 5 hours ago, DrPhilly said:Well, looks like the DSA nutter Hong lost in Wisconsin. thank gawd. Losing the Govship in Wisconsin is not what you'd like heading into '28.It would have been a blood bath had she won the primary. All of her TV ad buys were done by GOP fronts, who would have cut them the minute the primary was over, and she didn't have a war chest.
August 12Aug 12 17 minutes ago, vikas83 said:The issue is the DSA folks don't do well with blue collar, rust belt types. They are the party of over educated, generally white liberals.The DSA sweet spot: highly educated, downwardly mobileEducation and economic security are usually correlated. But where the relationship breaks down is fertile territory for the new left.The true die socialists and the wokes are not natural allies, they only band together to survive when they are on the margins. The Bernie Bros were man o sphere type terrors. Look, I'm not rooting for these DSA candidates, but I'm not clutching my pearls if they seize legitimate power in the Democrat party. Let the candidates who are reaching disaffected MAGA win.
August 12Aug 12 The real story of the Dems this primary cycle isn't that the DSA is taking over, it's that the old guard is being purged. Plenty of young moderates have taken down old establishment candidates too. The overarching theme is that the old Dems aren't getting the job done and need to go. And if Dems were Republicans that's how the media would cover it. Since they're Dems though, the media has to frame it as extremism because that's the framing that helps Republicans.
August 12Aug 12 4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:The real story of the Dems this primary cycle isn't that the DSA is taking over, it's that the old guard is being purged. Plenty of young moderates have taken down old establishment candidates too. The overarching theme is that the old Dems aren't getting the job done and need to go. And if Dems were Republicans that's how the media would cover it. Since they're Dems though, the media has to frame it as extremism because that's the framing that helps Republicans.Well, this is the trend we've seen for a while now - revolt against incumbents and a desire for change no matter what it is. Happening on the left and the right. Voting for change simply for the sake of change is generally a bad idea, but...voters are stupid.
August 12Aug 12 4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:The real story of the Dems this primary cycle isn't that the DSA is taking over, it's that the old guard is being purged. Plenty of young moderates have taken down old establishment candidates too. The overarching theme is that the old Dems aren't getting the job done and need to go. And if Dems were Republicans that's how the media would cover it. Since they're Dems though, the media has to frame it as extremism because that's the framing that helps Republicans.All about headlines and clicks of course.Dumping a large chunk of the old guard is a big plus. Just need to make sure the few really good ones are kept and also that the others aren't replaced with sheet and especially not the further left sheet like Hong.
August 12Aug 12 3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:Well, this is the trend we've seen for a while now - revolt against incumbents and a desire for change no matter what it is. Happening on the left and the right. Voting for change simply for the sake of change is generally a bad idea, but...voters are stupid.Usually I'd agree, but these old guard Dems need to go no matter what. We're a decade into the Trump era and they still don't fully understand that the old rules are long dead.
August 12Aug 12 4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:Usually I'd agree, but these old guard Dems need to go no matter what. We're a decade into the Trump era and they still don't fully understand that the old rules are long dead.Unless what you replace them with is even worse (e.g., MAGA replacing old school GOP).
August 12Aug 12 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:All about headlines and clicks of course.Dumping a large chunk of the old guard is a big plus. Just need to make sure the few really good ones are kept and also that the others aren't replaced with sheet and especially not the further left sheet like Hong.Meh. Hong sucked but I don't mind tossing out some duds to get the Dems to change. The right had to cycle through quite a few witch ladies and Michelle Bachmann's to get to Trump and the hard right's ended up getting everything they've ever wanted out of it: no Roe, concentration camps, foot soldiers in the streets killing liberals, a complete grift-based economy, protectionism. All those things suck obviously, but that's what they wanted and, after taking some lumps, that's what they ended up getting.
August 12Aug 12 1 minute ago, vikas83 said:Unless what you replace them with is even worse (e.g., MAGA replacing old school GOP).Depends on what you mean by worse. I just want Dems that know how to fight the GOP like the GOP fights them. The new crop is much better equipped for it.
August 12Aug 12 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:Depends on what you mean by worse. I just want Dems that know how to fight the GOP like the GOP fights them. The new crop is much better equipped for it.DSA Members pushing insane ideas is worse, in my opinion.
August 12Aug 12 Just now, vikas83 said:DSA Members pushing insane ideas is worse, in my opinion.No one really cares about insane ideas though. It's all about how the ideas are presented. Trump ran in '16 on defaulting on the debt and giving the Saudi's a nuke and no one seemed to care.
August 12Aug 12 14 minutes ago, vikas83 said:Unless what you replace them with is even worse (e.g., MAGA replacing old school GOP).i remember getting annoyed at the neocons, but also thinking to myself, well this is rock-bottom for my party, so it could only go up from here. 😒
August 12Aug 12 15 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:No one really cares about insane ideas though. It's all about how the ideas are presented. Trump ran in '16 on defaulting on the debt and giving the Saudi's a nuke and no one seemed to care.I cared
August 12Aug 12 22 minutes ago, vikas83 said:DSA Members pushing insane ideas is worse, in my opinion.No way the ones far out win a general election. Not in any purple or red states.
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