Iggles_Phan Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 6 hours ago, Talonblood said: None of your business- I was talking to you. You are talking to everyone... this is a message board, not a DM. But, this thread is specifically about the cap... which you dont care about (so you claim). Just seems odd. I generally dont venture into threads that deal with topics I don't care about. Just seemed odd. But, carry on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonblood Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said: You are talking to everyone... this is a message board, not a DM. But, this thread is specifically about the cap... which you dont care about (so you claim). Just seems odd. I generally dont venture into threads that deal with topics I don't care about. Just seemed odd. But, carry on. That's fine. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochis_Calhoun Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 13 hours ago, Hawkeye said: That's a good way to put it. How teams allocate their cap space illuminates organizational priorities and focus. Many of us are generally interested in the business of sports. And, let's be real, very few teams are ever in real cap trouble. The cap was designed by the league and - and therefore ownership - to ensure some sort of parity but most GMs easily manipulate it to their benefit. The can was designed to be kicked down the road. There will never come a point where teams have to "settle up". We literally would have have had to settle up this year if we still had Wentz or Cox had refused to restructure, the only reason we're not completely screwed is because we have a second round rookie QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: We literally would have have had to settle up this year if we still had Wentz or Cox had refused to restructure, the only reason we're not completely screwed is because we have a second round rookie QB. Fortunately, this scenario is unlikely to happen unless the player is trying to actively stick it to the team. In almost every case when they restructure, it’s not taking money out of their pockets, it’s taking base salary and turning it into a guaranteed bonus. So for the player there is little reason not to, outside of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: We literally would have have had to settle up this year if we still had Wentz or Cox had refused to restructure, the only reason we're not completely screwed is because we have a second round rookie QB. The Cox situation was almost a refusal to restructure. They had to cut him (post-June 1) to get out of a roster bonus... and then resigned him to a ridiculously high base salary for this year. He didn't exactly do the team any favors. He still costs a ton on the cap for this year... and now has extra on the cap for next year when he's not under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 I believe @Bwestbrook36 was asking about the 2023 dead cap hit for players no longer on the team. Assuming nothing happens (contract extensions, post june 1 cuts, etc), this is what we are currently looking at: Cox (2022 cut) $15,359,292 Javon Hargrave $16,758,000 Brandon Brooks $9,797,237 Isaac Seumalo $3,838,000 James Bradberry $4,972,000 Kyzir White $1,572,000 Anthony Harris $997,412 T.J. Edwards $711,000 $54,004,941 @downundermike : You mentioned that it was a bit unclear about Cox's hit due to the cut. I found this on OverTheCap, pretty interesting read. That is where I got the $15,359,292 number from for 2023. It looks like there will be a second dead cap hit in 2024 for $7,500,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 23 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said: Better update this to cap hell 2023... This year's hell didn't work out Updated the topic title for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 23 hours ago, paco said: Actual: $42,393,396 ($36,454,161 + $5,939,235 (Brandon Brooks) (I may be missing another post June 1 cut) @downundermike? ) I dunno, looks like I pretty much nailed it. Or are you asking to start talking about the 2023 dead cap hit? Even more dead cap was pushed to 2023 so I'm happy to have that conversation as well. $42,393,396 in dead cap. The Eagles rolled over $16,481,493 into 2022. $25,911,903 in actual dead cap since we brought extra from 2021. Derek Barnett $7,248,800 - Anthony Harris $2,408,000 - Rick Lovato $375,000 - John Hightower $150,026 - All still on the team, 3 of which should contribute. $15,730,077 after factoring in those numbers. Most of which are Jeffrey and Jackson. Both awful contracts. I was told last year that we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone significant and would struggle signing our rookies. Our draft class is already signed. We picked up and paid some big pieces on the team including Brown. Yeah 2022 was a real hell🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 minute ago, MillerTime said: $42,393,396 in dead cap. The Eagles rolled over $16,481,493 into 2022. $25,911,903 in actual dead cap since we brought extra from 2021. Derek Barnett $7,248,800 - Anthony Harris $2,408,000 - Rick Lovato $375,000 - John Hightower $150,026 - All still on the team, 3 of which should contribute. $15,730,077 after factoring in those numbers. Most of which are Jeffrey and Jackson. Both awful contracts. I was told last year that we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone significant and would struggle signing our rookies. Our draft class is already signed. We picked up and paid some big pieces on the team including Brown. Yeah 2022 was a real hell🤣 By kicking it on to the future... again. $54M dead for 2023... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 58 minutes ago, paco said: I believe @Bwestbrook36 was asking about the 2023 dead cap hit for players no longer on the team. Assuming nothing happens (contract extensions, post june 1 cuts, etc), this is what we are currently looking at: Cox (2022 cut) $15,359,292 Javon Hargrave $16,758,000 Brandon Brooks $9,797,237 Isaac Seumalo $3,838,000 James Bradberry $4,972,000 Kyzir White $1,572,000 Anthony Harris $997,412 T.J. Edwards $711,000 $54,004,941 @downundermike : You mentioned that it was a bit unclear about Cox's hit due to the cut. I found this on OverTheCap, pretty interesting read. That is where I got the $15,359,292 number from for 2023. It looks like there will be a second dead cap hit in 2024 for $7,500,000. OTC is already showing the 15.3 dead on the 2023 tab. What is confusing is they are not showing the 2022 dead hit yet from his release from the first contract. This one is pretty complex, curious to see how all the numbers end up working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, MillerTime said: $42,393,396 in dead cap. The Eagles rolled over $16,481,493 into 2022. $25,911,903 in actual dead cap since we brought extra from 2021. Derek Barnett $7,248,800 - Anthony Harris $2,408,000 - Rick Lovato $375,000 - John Hightower $150,026 - All still on the team, 3 of which should contribute. $15,730,077 after factoring in those numbers. Most of which are Jeffrey and Jackson. Both awful contracts. I was told last year that we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone significant and would struggle signing our rookies. Our draft class is already signed. We picked up and paid some big pieces on the team including Brown. Yeah 2022 was a real hell🤣 The part you are missing, is we missed out on the big safeties we were interested in signing as other teams were able to pay more due to our cap situation. Instead of paying a top safety 15 million, we are not able to spend that money because of Malik Jackson and Alshon Jeffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, downundermike said: The part you are missing, is we missed out on the big safeties we were interested in signing as other teams were able to pay more due to our cap situation. I'm not sure why some people tend to take it to the extremes when having this discussion and say "SEE! We signed some people!" without looking at the whole picture. Yeah, we did. We also now created an even larger total of dead cap for the following year, which will likely need to jump through hoops again to get around. That's in addition to a large % of the 2022 money pool being unusable due to the prorated bonuses. Perhaps its the use of the word hell? Some people take it to mean total Armageddon. I view it as a endless cycle of pain, which 2022 was the beginning of. This was the first year of a big dead cap hit due to expiring contracts created by Howie trying to prop the championship window opened too long. Now 2023 has an even larger dead cap hit and will likely need to be managed in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, downundermike said: The part you are missing, is we missed out on the big safeties we were interested in signing as other teams were able to pay more due to our cap situation. The Eagles gave Brown $100 million contract. They could have signed any safety for what they wanted and drafted a WR. They had a set amount they were willing to spend on each safety. Other teams overspent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehardfan Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 minute ago, paco said: I'm not sure why some people tend to take it to the extremes when having this discussion and say "SEE! We signed some people!" without looking at the whole picture. Yeah, we did. We also now created an even larger total of dead cap for the following year, which will likely need to jump through hoops again to get around. Perhaps its the use of the word hell? Some people take it to mean total Armageddon. I view it as a endless cycle of pain, which 2022 was the beginning of. This was the first year of a big dead cap hit due to expiring contracts created by Howie trying to prop the championship window opened too long. Now 2023 has an even larger dead cap hit and will likely need to be managed in the same way. Seemed to work just fine this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Seemed to work just fine this year Because they created an even bigger hit next year. At some point they will need to reduce the bubble, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, MillerTime said: The Eagles gave Brown $100 million contract. They could have signed any safety for what they wanted and drafted a WR. They had a set amount they were willing to spend on each safety. Other teams overspent. ....which doesn't kick in till next year. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but that extension has nothing to do with 2022. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, paco said: I'm not sure why some people tend to take it to the extremes when having this discussion and say "SEE! We signed some people!" without looking at the whole picture. Yeah, we did. We also now created an even larger total of dead cap for the following year, which will likely need to jump through hoops again to get around. That's in addition to a large % of the 2022 money pool being unusable due to the prorated bonuses. Perhaps its the use of the word hell? Some people take it to mean total Armageddon. I view it as a endless cycle of pain, which 2022 was the beginning of. This was the first year of a big dead cap hit due to expiring contracts created by Howie trying to prop the championship window opened too long. Now 2023 has an even larger dead cap hit and will likely need to be managed in the same way. 2022 was the start? I thought 2019 was, then 2020 was, then 2021 was? It’s the same argument every year yet we roll over more money than 90% of teams each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, paco said: I'm not sure why some people tend to take it to the extremes when having this discussion and say "SEE! We signed some people!" without looking at the whole picture. Yeah, we did. We also now created an even larger total of dead cap for the following year, which will likely need to jump through hoops again to get around. That's in addition to a large % of the 2022 money pool being unusable due to the prorated bonuses. Perhaps its the use of the word hell? Some people take it to mean total Armageddon. I view it as a endless cycle of pain, which 2022 was the beginning of. This was the first year of a big dead cap hit due to expiring contracts created by Howie trying to prop the championship window opened too long. Now 2023 has an even larger dead cap hit and will likely need to be managed in the same way. When looking at the Bills, Rams and Bucs, they have 1/2 the dead cap the Eagles have this year, and no dead cap next year. That is why the rich get richer and sign the Von Miller's and Allen Robinson's of the world. I expect Odell Beckham to re sign with the Rams at some point. They are able to keep signing top tier talent, while having their own super stars under contract. Sure, we got AJ Brown, Rams could possibly have Kupp, Robinson, Beckham, Van Jefferson. Their #3 is as good as our #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Just now, paco said: ....because they created an even bigger hit next year. At some point they will need to reduce the bubble, IMO. Yup. This is unsustainable. Pushing some money to the future is SOP. Pushing the huge amounts they have over the past 4 years is just not a sustainable piece. But, they could get away with it because they've had cheap QBs (exception being the 2021 season, which had a cap hit value for the QB position more in line with the rest of the league, due to the cap hit for trading Wentz). As the team gets younger, I'd expect that the bubble would start to come down. Kelce, Cox, Hargrave, Slay... these cap hits will come off in 2024, and they can't afford to replace those hits with more hits of the same size. At some point, they have to 'take their medicine' for Howie's screw ups. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Just now, paco said: ....which doesn't kick in till next year. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but that extension has nothing to do with 2022. His cap his is $5,680,984 this year and $8,318,894 next year. Williams cap hit is $4,028,000 this year and $7,803,000 next year. We could have signed him if we wanted to go over our limit for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 Just now, MillerTime said: 2022 was the start? I thought 2019 was, then 2020 was, then 2021 was? It’s the same argument every year yet we roll over more money than 90% of teams each year. 2022 was the first year where a bunch of contracts with void years triggered and rolled up. I think its becoming very clear that you haven't looked at the numbers. At all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: Yup. This is unsustainable. Pushing some money to the future is SOP. Pushing the huge amounts they have over the past 4 years is just not a sustainable piece. But, they could get away with it because they've had cheap QBs (exception being the 2021 season, which had a cap hit value for the QB position more in line with the rest of the league, due to the cap hit for trading Wentz). As the team gets younger, I'd expect that the bubble would start to come down. Kelce, Cox, Hargrave, Slay... these cap hits will come off in 2024, and they can't afford to replace those hits with more hits of the same size. At some point, they have to 'take their medicine' for Howie's screw ups. Agreed. In moderation, its an effective way to manage your cap. Think the window is open? Great, borrow a bit from the future. Problem is we are now in a place where we HAVE to borrow from the future. I personally don't believe that is a healthy way to manage your cap. 3 minutes ago, MillerTime said: His cap his is $5,680,984 this year and $8,318,894 next year. Williams cap hit is $4,028,000 this year and $7,803,000 next year. We could have signed him if we wanted to go over our limit for him. Great. But why bring up his $100 million extension? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, paco said: 2022 was the first year where a bunch of contracts with void years triggered and rolled up. I think its becoming very clear that you haven't looked at the numbers. At all Joe Flacco $1,940,000 Steven Nelson $1,508,000 Eric Wilson $1,372,000 Ryan Kerrigan $1,140,000 Sorry I’m not worried about this. And wont be in future years. I’ll be worried when we are in a Cowboys situation and have to trade someone that’s 27 like Cooper for a 6th round pick because of cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerTime Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, paco said: Agreed. In moderation, its an effective way to manage your cap. Think the window is open? Great, borrow a bit from the future. Problem is we are now in a place where we HAVE to borrow from the future. I personally don't believe that is a healthy way to manage your cap. Great. But why bring up his $100 million extension? Because it was said we couldnt afford to sign a safety. We could have and drafted a WR instead of trading for Brown. They chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, MillerTime said: Joe Flacco $1,940,000 Steven Nelson $1,508,000 Eric Wilson $1,372,000 Ryan Kerrigan $1,140,000 Sorry I’m not worried about this. And wont be in future years. Very curious you only chose those 4 players and not included all of the players who's voided years rolled up 1 minute ago, MillerTime said: Because it was said we couldnt afford to sign a safety. We could have and drafted a WR instead of trading for Brown. They chose not to. It's becoming obvious you are either being overly emotional about the subject or trolling, but f it, I'll repeat this one more time: The extension has nothing to do with the 2022 cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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