2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

[Talonblood]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:21 AM, nipples said:

And if they chose to get out of Wentz contract after 2021? Believe that adds another $24M in dead cap. So we are either stuck with a crap load of dead cap, an extremely expensive backup QB, or more of the same Wentz BS for the next few years. Wonderful. 
 

Thank god the Flyers look to be heading in the right direction or Philly sports would be entirely unbearable for the foreseeable future. 

"Thank god the Flyers look to be heading in the right direction????"

The Flyers are a bad joke. Saved $$ and be the worst team in your sport? No thanks. 😎

[Iggles_Phan]

9 hours ago, Vee said:

Seems like as good a year as any to go through the cap issues.  I see that he missed a window in 2020, but back then I think Howie was thinking Wentz could explode and play lights out.  COVID could have played itself out where a lesser team could have blown through better, more COVID affected teams.

In any case, like I said, you gotta pay the piper eventually, this is the year to do it.

Sadly, they will be paying a good chunk in 2023 as well.  Hargrave is almost $12M dead, Seumalo is nearly $4M... then there's the Kelce question and the delayed Brooks hit.   all told they are up to around $30M dead for 2023 right now.

So, that makes well over $100M in dead money in 2021, 2022 and 2023 combined... but Howie has handled the cap well.  

[NOTW]

 

 

[NOTW]

 

 

Speculation about Cox getting traded after the draft. Will be interesting to see if he drafts a DT.

 

 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

13 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

 

Speculation about Cox getting traded after the draft. Will be interesting to see if he drafts a DT.

 

 

 

Just hide it in hell

[Procus]

I read that the cap hit in 2022 for Cox is a record.  Wonder how the release affects later years.

[NOTW]

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/why-eagles-gm-howie-roseman-isnt-concerned-about-massive-salary-cap-dead-money

Quote

 

Why Roseman isn't concerned about millions in dead money

As of now, the Eagles have $36,149,164 in dead money counting against their adjusted 2022 cap figure of $224 million, according to Spotrac. Some of this is accidental dead money - from players they released or traded before their contract was up (Zach Ertz, Malik Jackson, etc.) - and some is intentional dead money - from players who had void years written into their contract for the sole purpose of spreading out their cap hit (Alshon Jeffery, Derek Barnett, etc.).

What is dead money?

In simplest terms, base salary in a player contract counts entirely against the cap in the year it’s paid, but the signing bonus is spread out equally over the life of the contract.

Using salary cap trickery, teams have the ability to carve out current cap space by adding void years to contracts, which moves money from the current cap to future caps.

So teams end up with significant cap hits in future years from players who have long since left the team.

Why does this make sense?

Roseman for the first time ever went into great detail explaining the team’s thinking in regard to dead money.

He used home ownership to help illustrate his point.

"It’s no different than – and I’m stealing this from Bryce [Johnston], our cap guy, so I’m not taking ownership of it – but it’s no different than when you’re trying to buy a house,” Roseman said. "If you have the opportunity to buy a house and put all the cash down or the interest rates are really good and you’re going to pay it over time, why wouldn’t you use that money now and understand that as it goes forward you’re going to be able to do that? 

"It’s the same money. If I give somebody $10 and I decide to prorate it, it’s the same $10 that’s going to affect my cap the same way, but if I’m doing it where the value of the cap is not $100 but now it’s $150, why wouldn’t I want to take it in those times?”

In other words, a $10 cap hit when the cap is $100 represents 10 percent of your available cap space. The exact same $10 cap hit when the cap is $150 represents only 6.7 percent of your available cap space.

So move the cap hit forward and the same amount is a lower percentage of your total cap.

Even with a temporary drop in 2020 because of COVID, the NFL’s unadjusted cap has increased from $123.6 million in 2013 to $208.2 million this year, an average increase of about 7 ½ percent. Current estimates – based on projected TV revenue increases - are that the cap will increase to $328.2 million by 2027, which would be an 11 ½ percent increase over the next five years.

"It’s all the same amount of money,” Roseman said. "It’s just when you choose to do it. From our perspective, it felt like the way the cap is going to go going forward, it made sense to have the option to take it in future years.”

The Eagles found themselves in serious cap trouble in 2021, mainly because COVID affected revenues so much in 2020 that the cap unexpectedly dropped from about $198 million in 2020 to just over $182 million in 2021.

"One of the reasons we were so aggressive with (Darius) Slay and (Javon) Hargrave was because we felt like the cap was going to up,” Roseman said. "Definitely did not think there was going to be a pandemic in the world. My fault. Definitely my bad. So that kind of set us back a little.”

Those were some seriously extenuating circumstances. Roseman is confident the Eagles’ policy of kicking the can forward will never hurt the product on the field.

Because even with all their dead money, the Eagles usually wind up with more cap space than most teams, not less.

According to Spotrac, the Eagles currently have the 5th-most 2022 dead money of any NFL team. But they have the 3rd-most cap space at $22.12 million.

"Coming out of (2017 and 2018), trying to be aggressive, we knew at some point we were going to have to take a step back, we were going to pay it, but I would do that 100 times out of 100 times,” Roseman said.

"If you said to me in the next five years we’re going to go to the playoffs four of the five years, we’re going to win one World Championship and then we’re going to have a horrible, (crappy) year, would I sign up for that? Yes? Where do I sign up for that?"

 

 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/why-eagles-gm-howie-roseman-isnt-concerned-about-massive-salary-cap-dead-money

 

 

Quote

 

Those were some seriously extenuating circumstances. Roseman is confident the Eagles’ policy of kicking the can forward will never hurt the product on the field.

Because even with all their dead money, the Eagles usually wind up with more cap space than most teams, not less.

According to Spotrac, the Eagles currently have the 5th-most 2022 dead money of any NFL team. But they have the 3rd-most cap space at $22.12 million.

 

 

This is so stupid.   It means that they have spent a very small amount of money actually towards the players on the roster for this year.

Just consider this... $100 available to spend for 2022.  $16 in dead money (that's the percentage of dead money already used for 2022).  $9 left to spend... which means they've only spent $75 for this year of the allotted $100.  BUT... this doesn't hurt the team in any way on the field.

[paco]

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/why-eagles-gm-howie-roseman-isnt-concerned-about-massive-salary-cap-dead-money

 

  I've literally used the house\mortgage analogy (maybe even in this thread) to explain why I believe the future dead cap hit makes sense when done in moderation.

 

The lack of moderation part is what I take issue with.

[paco]

Found it. Was in the Cox thread from last years restructure

[NOTW]

7 minutes ago, paco said:

  I've literally used the house\mortgage analogy (maybe even in this thread) to explain why I believe the future dead cap hit makes sense when done in moderation.

 

The lack of moderation part is what I take issue with.

Well their story is that they have been successful in free agency by just keeping their own players, and among dead money leaders is good because they have created cap space this year.  We'll see how the strategy plays out in the next couple years. 

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, paco said:

  I've literally used the house\mortgage analogy (maybe even in this thread) to explain why I believe the future dead cap hit makes sense when done in moderation.

 

The lack of moderation part is what I take issue with.

It's his get out of jail free card.    Push it off, push it off, push it off and overvalue players and not worry about it today, because tomorrow's dollars won't be as significant as today's dollars.  

The biggest part is that the dead money is being spent on players that didn't do much of anything for two years on the roster.  Alshon?  Might as well have just burned the cash.  Malik Jackson?  Burn that money too.  Desean Jackson?  Sure, burn it.  More dead money for the Eagles last year than the cash he got from both teams he played for last year.  Brandon Brooks?  Same deal.    It isn't just about the bad structures, its about the horrid contract values given to players that have offered almost nothing on the field for the team.   That's what makes it so bad.

[NOTW]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It's his get out of jail free card.    Push it off, push it off, push it off and overvalue players and not worry about it today, because tomorrow's dollars won't be as significant as today's dollars.  

The biggest part is that the dead money is being spent on players that didn't do much of anything for two years on the roster.  Alshon?  Might as well have just burned the cash.  Malik Jackson?  Burn that money too.  Desean Jackson?  Sure, burn it.  More dead money for the Eagles last year than the cash he got from both teams he played for last year.  Brandon Brooks?  Same deal.    It isn't just about the bad structures, its about the horrid contract values given to players that have offered almost nothing on the field for the team.   That's what makes it so bad.

I think part of it is the foresight on the type of player.  Doing it for a beast like Kelce who has stayed healthy, sure.  Doing it for players like Cox or Graham on the decline, Johnson or Brooks who are declining and getting injured too often, Jeffrey and Jackson getting paid to be on IR for 2 years, stuff like that.  And it was too much of it to too many players (the moderation comment you and Paco made).

He used to shuffle money around like that to make room to sign players and it wasn't as big a deal because they were core players.  He started doing it with too many players from the SB, some of them he should have let walk in free agency. 

Plus you add in that he gave Wentz a $100m contract before he proved he could play a 2nd full season without injury and then immediately drafted an insurance policy.  Then traded Wentz which he got good picks in return but had to deal with more dead money.  

Some celebrate him for fixing problems but they are problems he created that should've not happened.  Again we'll see if he's learned his lesson and how he handles it going forward.

[Iggles_Phan]

14 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I think part of it is the foresight on the type of player.  Doing it for a beast like Kelce who has stayed healthy, sure.  Doing it for players like Cox or Graham on the decline, Johnson or Brooks who are declining and getting injured too often, Jeffrey and Jackson getting paid to be on IR for 2 years, stuff like that.  And it was too much of it to too many players (the moderation comment you and Paco made).

He used to shuffle money around like that to make room to sign players and it wasn't as big a deal because they were core players.  He started doing it with too many players from the SB, some of them he should have let walk in free agency. 

Plus you add in that he gave Wentz a $100m contract before he proved he could play a 2nd full season without injury and then immediately drafted an insurance policy.  Then traded Wentz which he got good picks in return but had to deal with more dead money.  

Some celebrate him for fixing problems but they are problems he created that should've not happened.  Again we'll see if he's learned his lesson and how he handles it going forward.

Not sure how 'fixed' any of these issues actually are.

[Iggles_Phan]

24 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Well their story is that they have been successful in free agency by just keeping their own players, and among dead money leaders is good because they have created cap space this year.  We'll see how the strategy plays out in the next couple years. 

Incidentally, anyone who buys that part is a fool.  Retaining your own players is a net neutral move.  Losing your players is genuinely a net negative and adding new pieces is a net positive.  

[NOTW]

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not sure how 'fixed' any of these issues actually are.

Well they argue staying under the cap (every team does that) and creating cap space is fixing it.

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, NOTW said:

Well they argue staying under the cap (every team does that) and creating cap space is fixing it.

Foolish thinking.

[NOTW]

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Incidentally, anyone who buys that part is a fool.  Retaining your own players is a net neutral move.  Losing your players is genuinely a net negative and adding new pieces is a net positive.  

Agree. They are trying to sell that and check out the media regurgitating. 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Agree. They are trying to sell that and check out the media regurgitating. 

Roob is aptly named.  

 

Did signing those guys improve the team from what it was last year?  Nope.  And calling Sweat a Pro Bowl edge is just an indicator of how meaningless that accolade is now. with so many players backing out and having 3rd and 4th alternates being added.  

If I were on Twitter I might explain that to him.  But, I don't think he'd get it.

[Bwestbrook36]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

Well they argue staying under the cap (every team does that) and creating cap space is fixing it.

So we are still in hell or???

[NOTW]

11 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So we are still in hell or???

Barely out of hell, dealing with cap issues and dead money, can kicked to future years again, a handful of aging injury prone players with crap draft picks behind them...great draft capital with a guy who can't draft...

[Infam]

13 hours ago, NOTW said:

I think part of it is the foresight on the type of player.  Doing it for a beast like Kelce who has stayed healthy, sure.  Doing it for players like Cox or Graham on the decline, Johnson or Brooks who are declining and getting injured too often, Jeffrey and Jackson getting paid to be on IR for 2 years, stuff like that.  And it was too much of it to too many players (the moderation comment you and Paco made).

He used to shuffle money around like that to make room to sign players and it wasn't as big a deal because they were core players.  He started doing it with too many players from the SB, some of them he should have let walk in free agency. 

Plus you add in that he gave Wentz a $100m contract before he proved he could play a 2nd full season without injury and then immediately drafted an insurance policy.  Then traded Wentz which he got good picks in return but had to deal with more dead money.  

Some celebrate him for fixing problems but they are problems he created that should've not happened.  Again we'll see if he's learned his lesson and how he handles it going forward.

Still not buying it. I think you underestimate how valuable Cox and BG are beyond their still respectable production. Johnson is still one of if not the best RT so I have no idea where your problem is with him. Brooks has had mental issues but when on the field played excellent.

Jeffrey and Jackson was a mistake, though to be fair Jackson was never injured before he came here (figures) so if your crystal ball saw that coming congrats.

Wentz was a terrible contract which almost everyone applauded. You got him early and would’ve payed so much more if he was actually good. But let’s play the hindsight game: Aren’t we better off now with pick 15 and a lot of dead cap in the past over not extending him and he just is gone?

Sounds crazy, but we are actually better off ‘buying’ that first - if we get a good player with it. But even if we had the money your point is that we aren’t that good spending it so might as well have the cheap first rounder, hm?

I’ll never understand your cap fetish. How many years of it not mattering does it take for you to let it go? Will we really be here 2030 arguing how kicking the can gave us a bad situation in 2031? Just open your eyes: All the good teams follow Rosemans example. The teams with tons of cap are broken.

[paco]

16 hours ago, NOTW said:

Agree. They are trying to sell that and check out the media regurgitating. 

Drafting well and retaining your own talent is the Joe Banner model.  Or the Ravens.  Or the Steelers. etc.  One things those teams all have in common is that they were constantly competitive.  

 

I have no problem with a quiet FA period where we lock up our own talent.  The Barnett contract aside, I have few complaints.

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, paco said:

Drafting well and retaining your own talent is the Joe Banner model.  Or the Ravens.  Or the Steelers. etc.  One things those teams all have in common is that they were constantly competitive.  

 

I have no problem with a quiet FA period where we lock up our own talent.  The Barnett contract aside, I have few complaints.

That's all fine and good, and it is what it should be.  BUT... trying to pretend that the Eagles "added" any of those players during Free Agency is a false narrative.  They weren't added, they were retained, which is net neutral.  That's not to say it's a 'bad' thing, but it's not adding to the roster.  The roster still has the same problems it did at the end of last season, with the exception of adding Reddick and White.  We'll see if the minor gamble on White pays off.  But, in the grand scheme of roster building, they've not added significant pieces, which is what the Roobster was implying by wording his Tweet the way he did to shill for the Eagles' FO.  

The moves were fine.  But, they shouldn't be spun as having added a LT, DE, or TE.  They were all here last year.  

[paco]

11 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

So we are still in hell or???

Isn't one way hell is envisioned is where you have to do an unpleasant task over and over for eternity? 

 

Well, we are now in year 6 of him continuously pushing money into the future just to get under the cap to field a team.  And unless he pulls back the throttle this will continue.  So to answer your question, yes.