2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, nipples said:

Not saying it WILL happen, but hypothetically let’s say Hurts goes out there and turns out to be the real deal. Becomes a legitimate franchise QB... do you give Howie more leeway at that point for having the guts to take the QB in the second round knowing there’s going to be a lot of questioning that pick?

You could do yeah. But then you could also counter that with "why did he give Carson his huge pay day if 12 months later he's now having doubts". 

[nipples]

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

You could do yeah. But then you could also counter that with "why did he give Carson his huge pay day if 12 months later he's now having doubts". 

Well they were in a tough spot there I think. He had shown potential, and if they wait and he kept progressing they would have ended up paying even more. The Dak contract situation didn’t help, knowing that if Dak got a huge payday first then it would have directly impacted how much they’d need to spend on Wentz.
 

They had no way of knowing Dallas was going to keep stringing Dak along... which, on a side note, looks like it could bite them hard in the a** if he keeps playing lights out like he did last week. 

[20dawk4life]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:08 AM, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’m glad more people are seeing the light when it comes to Howie.  I’m not the crazy old man yelling at the sky anymore.   

You still are 

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, nipples said:

Not saying it WILL happen, but hypothetically let’s say Hurts goes out there and turns out to be the real deal. Becomes a legitimate franchise QB... do you give Howie more leeway at that point for having the guts to take the QB in the second round knowing there’s going to be a lot of questioning that pick?

In that scenario, they didn't trust Carson anymore and wanted to find insurance.  So the scouts put their ratings on the QBs. It's a team process then Howie has to make the final call, but I don't see Howie pushing hard for a guy that no one in the organization wants.  I think the better players they've drafted like Goedert and Sanders, they were consensus strong prospects.  Look at the speed at WR thing.  They needed speed, so Howie drafted 3 receivers, and used a draft pick to trade for one.  Next year they'll realize they need something else and throw a bunch of crap at the wall to see what sticks.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, nipples said:

Well they were in a tough spot there I think. He had shown potential, and if they wait and he kept progressing they would have ended up paying even more. The Dak contract situation didn’t help, knowing that if Dak got a huge payday first then it would have directly impacted how much they’d need to spend on Wentz.

If you aren't sure on a player then you don't give him big big money. You tag him and see what another year brings. If you still aren't sure then you move on. 

[Ray75]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

If you aren't sure on a player then you don't give him big big money. You tag him and see what another year brings. If you still aren't sure then you move on. 

I agree with Mr. Nipples here. What choice did they have?! At that point they were confident enough Wentz could be the guy and didn’t want to wait another season to sign him to a long term deal.

Let’s assume they would have let him play out his rookie deal. If he balls out, the price would have undoubtfully gone up. If he’d have a bad or mediocre season they could have used the tag next year but that’s a risk they clearly didn’t want to take.

[greend]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:31 AM, toughfighter83 said:

howie threw money at the wrong players and that's going to hurt us for a long time, pats were successful because they didnt overpay for anyone.

Fing Pats cheat. I wish people would stop using them as a good example.

[Godfather]

7 minutes ago, greend said:

Fing Pats cheat. I wish people would stop using them as a good example.

And the owner is a dirty old f that likes getting hummers from poor women that are forced by these human traffickers to make money

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

I agree with Mr. Nipples here. What choice did they have?! At that point they were confident enough Wentz could be the guy and didn’t want to wait another season to sign him to a long term deal.

Let’s assume they would have let him play out his rookie deal. If he balls out, the price would have undoubtfully gone up. If he’d have a bad or mediocre season they could have used the tag next year but that’s a risk they clearly didn’t want to take.

Its a difficult situation we all know that. But to have decided a year on that perhaps the guy you just gave a mega deal to isn't the guy? I mean you probably should lose your job for that. And that's just one of many reasons. 

[QBhunter58]

ugh this is not what I needed to read today... It doesn't surprise me, but I had been enjoying 2022 eagles cap ignorance.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

ugh this is not what I needed to read today... It doesn't surprise me, but I had been enjoying 2022 eagles cap ignorance.

I can put a little positive spin on things for you if you'd like?

[QBhunter58]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I can put a little positive spin on things for you if you'd like?

please do

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, QBhunter58 said:

please do

Well... To get out of this cap hell they'll have to cut and maybe trade players. At least with this current roster there are only about 3 or 4 players you wouldn't want to lose. 

[EagleVA]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:37 AM, paco said:

No.  You can pay a coach eleven billionty dollars and it doesn't affect the cap.

That's racist!!

[toughfighter83]

On 9/24/2020 at 1:46 PM, greend said:

Fing Pats cheat. I wish people would stop using them as a good example.

who freaking cares, it's about overpaying players is always a bad idea, im saying this the only reason you are defending howie is because he kept your favorite players and not care if they suck and hurt this team. heck even if this team was at the bottom for 10 years, you will want howie here and sign players you are personality attached to and not care about winning another sb.

 

[paco]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:09 AM, paco said:

Everyone is talking about how we are $71 million over the cap next year and there has been debate about "oh, we just cut this guy and restructure that guy and carry over this years space and..."  to handle our 2021 cap situation.  What is not being talked about is how Howie loves to build in "fake years" into ne contracts to further spread out the signing bonus to lower current year cap #'s.  ("Fake years" meaning the contract may be for 5 years, but the last two years automatically void when you get to year 4, so it has 2 fake years)  Sure, it looked great this year when we got Slay, Hargrave, etc for about 5 cents, but that bill will be paid at some point.  Its something I've been wondering.... how many of these contracts do we have on the books and when will it hit?

Well, I haven't done the entire roster yet (but I am at a point where I hit all the big contracts and wont find anything significantly different) and its already worse that I thought.  Below are all of the "fake years" and the dead cap hit for each player.  Note that the entirety of the dead cap hit takes place on the first of the fake years (it is not spread out)

 

Fletcher Cox - Fake year in 2023.  $3.6 million
Alshon Jeffery - Two fake years starting 2022.  $5 million
Zach Ertz - Two fake years starting 2022.  $3.5 million
Lane Johnson - Three fake years starting in 2026.  $1.2 million
DeSean Jackson - Two fake years starting 2022.  $3.86 million
Jason Kelce - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $7.2 million
Brandon Graham - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $12.2 million
Malik Jackson - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $9 million
Darius Slay - Two fake years starting 2022.  $2.5 million
Javon Hargrave - Two fake years starting 2023.  $5 million
Rodney McLeod - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $1.8 million
Isaac Seumalo - Two fake years starting 2023.  $2 million

 

 

What does this mean?  Well, assuming 1) everyone lives out their contract and 2) there is no further restructuring, in 2022 we are looking at a $45 MILLION DOLLAR DEAD CAP HIT.  

 

 

 

Now that the season is over, I wanted to revisit the above:

Cox: Restructured.  Added 2 fake years (2023-2025) and will now have a dead cap hit of $16,912,120 in the first fake year.  So the cap hit after he is gone increases roughly by 13.5 million

Alshon: Cut in 2021.  Has a 2022 dead cap hit of $5,435,706.  Roughly the same.

Ertz:  Traded.  Has a 2022 dead cap hit of $3,548,000.  Same

Lane: Contract remains the same.  

Desean: Released.  Entire dead cap hit was absorbed in 2021

Kelce: I'm honestly wrapping my head around this one still.  If I look at the table it looks like he now has void years 2023-2025 with a 9 million dead cap hit in 2023.  So for this conversation I'm keeping it simple and going with that, especially since he may retire and that opens up a whole other cap discussion.  There are some interesting details I'll put in the spoiler tag below. The change basically pushes his "fake year" to 2023 and increases it by 2 million.

Spoiler

Kelce signed a new contract with the Eagles in March of 2021. The new contract is a effectively a one year, $9 million contract that includes a $4.5 million raise from his prior salary. The contract contains what are effectively four dummy contract years for salary cap purposes which is designed to allow the Eagles to use a June 1 release on Kelce in 2022. The move created $2.84 million in 2021 cap room for Philadelphia.

Brandon Graham: Received a new 2 year contract.  His fake years are now 2024-2026 to the tune of $10,148,000.  Basically the fake years were pushed back and the dead cap hit was LOWERED by 2 million.  Get well soon, we missed you.

Malik Jackson: Cut.  Dead money for 2022 remains the same.

Darius Slay: Was extended since the original post.  He now has two fake years starting in 2024 to the tune of 4.6 million.  Basically the fake years were pushed back and the dead cap hit was RAISED by 2 million.

Javon Hargrave: Restructured in 2021.  Almost 12 million in salary was converted to bonuses and added a fake year.  As it stands right now, he is still gone in 2023 and that dead cap hit INCREASES by 7 million.

Rodney McLeod: I'm not seeing anything that suggests he restructured, and maybe the original data was wrong, but hes still a FA, but his dead cap hit is showing to be 2.1 million, not 1.8.  Whatever

Isaac Seumalo: Had a small restructure.  They added a fake year and increases his 2023 dead cap hit to 3.8 million, up almost 2 million since the OP.

 

 

Verdict:
For 2022, for the most part everything stayed the same from a dead cap perspective. Kelces fake year was pushed to 2023 (of course if he retires, that's a 13 million dead cap hit if they don't designate him as a June 1st retire), Brandon G was pushed to 2024, Slay signed a new contract and we absorbed all of Desean's contract last year.
2023 had more money pushed to it.  13.5 million for cox, 7 million for Hargrave plus a little more for Seumallo.  So to help 2022, $21 million in dead cap was added to 2023.  He basically took half the pain and shifted it to 2023.  

Final thoughts:
If I hear one more idiot on WIP (both hosts and callers) talk about how we fixed the cap and took our licks in 2021 and now are flush with cash, I'm going to f'n lose it.
 

[Procus]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:09 AM, paco said:

Everyone is talking about how we are $71 million over the cap next year and there has been debate about "oh, we just cut this guy and restructure that guy and carry over this years space and..."  to handle our 2021 cap situation.  What is not being talked about is how Howie loves to build in "fake years" into ne contracts to further spread out the signing bonus to lower current year cap #'s.  ("Fake years" meaning the contract may be for 5 years, but the last two years automatically void when you get to year 4, so it has 2 fake years)  Sure, it looked great this year when we got Slay, Hargrave, etc for about 5 cents, but that bill will be paid at some point.  Its something I've been wondering.... how many of these contracts do we have on the books and when will it hit?

Well, I haven't done the entire roster yet (but I am at a point where I hit all the big contracts and wont find anything significantly different) and its already worse that I thought.  Below are all of the "fake years" and the dead cap hit for each player.  Note that the entirety of the dead cap hit takes place on the first of the fake years (it is not spread out)

 

Fletcher Cox - Fake year in 2023.  $3.6 million
Alshon Jeffery - Two fake years starting 2022.  $5 million
Zach Ertz - Two fake years starting 2022.  $3.5 million
Lane Johnson - Three fake years starting in 2026.  $1.2 million
DeSean Jackson - Two fake years starting 2022.  $3.86 million
Jason Kelce - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $7.2 million
Brandon Graham - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $12.2 million
Malik Jackson - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $9 million
Darius Slay - Two fake years starting 2022.  $2.5 million
Javon Hargrave - Two fake years starting 2023.  $5 million
Rodney McLeod - Three fake years starting in 2022.  $1.8 million
Isaac Seumalo - Two fake years starting 2023.  $2 million

 

 

What does this mean?  Well, assuming 1) everyone lives out their contract and 2) there is no further restructuring, in 2022 we are looking at a $45 MILLION DOLLAR DEAD CAP HIT.  

 

CAP GENIUS 

The cap is expected to rise by about $25 million in 2022 over 2021 for each team.  So the negative impact of all of this shouldn't be that bad.  The Eagles are not going to spend their way into strong contention via free agency in any event.

[paco]

17 minutes ago, Procus said:

The cap is expected to rise by about $25 million in 2022 over 2021 for each team.  So the negative impact of all of this shouldn't be that bad.  The Eagles are not going to spend their way into strong contention via free agency in any event.

Unless by "negative impact" you mean that the eagles wont have to cut everyone just to get under the cap, the fact it is going up is inconsequential.  We are still behind the 8 ball compared to almost everyone else.

 

Bottom line is, we are going to to have anywhere between $24 to $37 million in dead cap on players that arnt here.  Money that could be spent on extending young talent.  Only one other team is in worse shape from that perspective right now and that's the Texans.

[EazyEaglez]

The cap is a nightmare. The Eagles can not afford to give up picks for some veteran quarterback. They really need to replace these old guys with younger players. This team is in cap hell. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Procus said:

The cap is expected to rise by about $25 million in 2022 over 2021 for each team.  So the negative impact of all of this shouldn't be that bad.  The Eagles are not going to spend their way into strong contention via free agency in any event.

Good god man, the cap is set at 208.1 million for 2022.  All discussions about the cap have been based on this number.

[paco]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The cap is a nightmare. The Eagles can not afford to give up picks for some veteran quarterback. They really need to replace these old guys with younger players. This team is in cap hell. 

If he chills out on spending this year AND listens to his scouts and has a solid draft, we could be in much better shape in 2023 despite the additional dead cap that got shifted there.

 

But what you said is exactly what got us in the position.  Pissing away draft picks for older, expensive players is what got us here.  He was trying to keep the window open but left the pantry bare. 

[NOTW]

 

[paco]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Good god man, the cap is set at 208.1 million for 2022.  All discussions about the cap have been based on this number.

That's where he is getting the 25 million number from.  It was $182.5 in 2021 and $208.2 in 2022.  +$25.7 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, paco said:

That's where he is getting the 25 million number from.  It was $182.5 in 2021 and $208.2 in 2022.  +$25.7 

 

I am not so sure he is getting that all the discussions of the cap are based on 208.2 million.  I think he expects there to be 25 more million to spend than the numbers we are using.

[Procus]

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Good god man, the cap is set at 208.1 million for 2022.  All discussions about the cap have been based on this number.

It's going to rise by $25 million, yes. No, it's not good to have a lot of dead cap money tied up in that figure, but there's still plenty of money to sign free agents. 

I remember not so many years back that the team took a lot of heat for being at the top of the league in terms of cap space.  Well, here we are again - the Eagles will be a top ten team in cap space among playoff teams, but that's not good enough because there's a lot of the cap eaten up by dead money.   I guess what this ultimately translates into is a weak roster, which I agree is a problem - but there is enough money to bring new talent in, and more importantly, to build via the draft.

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I am not so sure he is getting that all the discussions of the cap are based on 208.2 million.  I think he expects there to be 25 more million to spend than the numbers we are using.

Instead of trying to read my mind, why not read what I'm writing.  I got the numbers from NFL.com.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-informs-clubs-2022-salary-cap-projected-to-be-208-2-million