May 5, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: This really can't be overstated as a disastrous consequence. If the government can simply steal any IP for something it calls an "emergency," no one will ever spend real R&D money again. At the very minimum, this better only apply to companies who took money from OWS, and only under the assumption it was disclosed that any IP developed as a result of that agreement / funding would be own by the federal government. If that's not the case, then this is even more ridiculous than it appears on the surface.
May 5, 20214 yr And before anyone comes in and screams "but they took money from Operation Warp Speed," let's cover two things. 1. They didn't all take money 2. If waiving IP rights was a condition of taking government funding, then that needed to be disclosed at the time the funding was offered. The government can't just unilaterally change the contract after the fact because they want to. They tried to screw GM bank debt holders this way and got laughed out of court (they did monstrously screw bondholders and upend all established bankruptcy law, however) These companies should make like the Joker in The Dark Knight and burn the entire vaccine stockpile in front of this idiot trade rep. Just now, we_gotta_believe said: At the very minimum, this better only apply to companies who took money from OWS, and only under the assumption it was disclosed that any IP developed as a result of that agreement / funding would be own by the federal government. If that's not the case, then this is even more ridiculous than it appears on the surface. SPOILER ALERT: it wasn't.
May 5, 20214 yr 19 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Biden's trade rep is advocating for waiving patent rights on the vaccines. Not a fan of this at all. Not good. I agree with the echo chamber in here: waiving patents will provide little result regarding limited worldwide supply. It's simply impossible to make unlimited vaccine.
May 5, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said: They've been polled on the matter, and roughly half of them want us out. The Taliban portrays us as invaders, and a lot buy into the notion, because we are. You are entitled to agree with the Taliban (and @Kz!). The facts are that we were attacked, and retaliated.
May 5, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, vikas83 said: And before anyone comes in and screams "but they took money from Operation Warp Speed," let's cover two things. 1. They didn't all take money 2. If waiving IP rights was a condition of taking government funding, then that needed to be disclosed at the time the funding was offered. The government can't just unilaterally change the contract after the fact because they want to. They tried to screw GM bank debt holders this way and got laughed out of court (they did monstrously screw bondholders and upend all established bankruptcy law, however) These companies should make like the Joker in The Dark Knight and burn the entire vaccine stockpile in front of this idiot trade rep. SPOILER ALERT: it wasn't. How does this work? The federal government would force them to release the patent, or they just wouldn't enforce it, if a vaccine were reversed engineered?
May 5, 20214 yr Author 19 minutes ago, Gannan said: You are entitled to agree with the Taliban (and @Kz!). The facts are that we were attacked, and retaliated. And 50% of Afghanis...and every foreign policy authority. But yeah, we retaliated against Al Qaeda...20 years ago, and it doesn't make it any less of an invasion, even though most of the 9/11 attacks were largely planned elsewhere in places like Germany. Literally every source refers to it as "The U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan." To argue that it was anything otherwise is sort of odd and is really a point about semantics more than anything else. It's beside the point. I think the initial invasion was justified, but we've been there way longer than is justifiable.
May 5, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, Gannan said: How does this work? The federal government would force them to release the patent, or they just wouldn't enforce it, if a vaccine were reversed engineered? The latter I believe. FWIW, I just read that moderna already agreed not to do that back in November. It's still F'ing stupid for the aforementioned reasons though.
May 6, 20214 yr The reality show grifter wanted to make America great again with words, Joe IS making America great again with action.
May 6, 20214 yr 21 hours ago, vikas83 said: Complete insanity. If I were Moderna/Pfizer/JnJ, I'd stop producing doses if they go through with this. Yeah, use the threat of Covid to spread like wildfire, if they go through with it. I'm sure that would go over well.
May 6, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Yeah, use the threat of Covid to spread like wildfire, if they go through with it. I'm sure that would go over well. Right, so they should just bow down to the mob tactics of the government and have their property stolen from them. Makes sense. It's not like property rights are at all important.
May 6, 20214 yr 32 minutes ago, downundermike said: The reality show grifter wanted to make America great again with words, Joe IS making America great again with action. Now do math and science, Joe, and how about we fix that instead.
May 6, 20214 yr Author 8 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Right, so they should just bow down to the mob tactics of the government and have their property stolen from them. Makes sense. It's not like property rights are at all important. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. This is a global war. I'm not saying there aren't grounds for arguing against waiving the patent, but essentially threatening to intentionally worsen the pandemic would be nakedly sadistic and along the lines of something an evil villain in a comic book series would do. Doesn't Congress have to approve the waiver? In which case, the move would have been authorized by a majority of the people's duly elected representatives.
May 6, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Right, so they should just bow down to the mob tactics of the government and have their property stolen from them. Makes sense. It's not like property rights are at all important. Are they complaining about it?
May 6, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. This is a global war. I'm not saying there aren't grounds for arguing against waiving the patent, but essentially threatening to intentionally worsen the pandemic would be nakedly sadistic and along the lines of something an evil villain in a comic book series would do. Doesn't Congress have to approve the waiver? In which case, the move would have been authorized by a majority of the people's duly elected representatives. Oh, so theft is OK so long as a majority of people approve? I guess that is basically the guiding principle of the Democratic party now. I'll get Congress to vote to seize all your assets. You can't whine because it was "authorized by a majority of the people's duly elected representatives." And the companies will bend over and take it, because they can't fight the mob tactics employed by the government and morons. That doesn't make it disgusting and wrong.
May 6, 20214 yr Author 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Oh, so theft is OK so long as a majority of people approve? A majority of elected officials can change any law at any time, and we have a sprawling network of federal courts to determine whether such a move is Constitutional. This is nothing new. I can imagine you would've been against the vast majority of everything the government did in the 40s to fight WWII. They essentially nationalized entire industries. 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I'll get Congress to vote to seize all your assets. Ever heard of Eminent Domain?
May 6, 20214 yr Author 47 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Now do math and science, Joe, and how about we fix that instead. Our society is intellectually broken. Even if we put the educational resources in place to improve our standing in these areas, I doubt many would take advantage by this point.. Math and science requires a level of thought and focus that the vast majority of Americans just aren't interested in applying to anything, let alone subjects that most of them find "boring." They'd much rather binge on streaming services. Doing things is hard; most Americans would rather take it easy for their lifetimes.
May 6, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Our society is intellectually broken. Even if we put the educational resources in place to improve our standing in these areas, I doubt many would take advantage by this point.. Math and science requires a level of thought and focus that the vast majority of Americans just aren't interested in applying to anything, let alone subjects that most of them find "boring." They'd much rather binge on streaming services. Doing things is hard; most Americans would rather take it easy for their lifetimes. Not that you asked, but my sixth-grader is taking Algebra I next year.
May 6, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Not that you asked, but my sixth-grader is taking Algebra I next year. Isn't that the class we are told, we would never have to use this info again for the rest of our lives. Hell, I still don't know what 5/16 x 2/3 = LOL
May 6, 20214 yr 43 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: A majority of elected officials can change any law at any time, and we have a sprawling network of federal courts to determine whether such a move is Constitutional. This is nothing new. I can imagine you would've been against the vast majority of everything the government did in the 40s to fight WWII. They essentially nationalized entire industries. Ever heard of Eminent Domain? You can't violate a Constitutional protection by a majority vote of Congress. But the bigger issue is the government is supposed to PROTECT property rights, not strong arm companies into surrendering them. I'm sure you were all for cell companies turning over mass amounts of data for the greater good in fighting terrorism? Eminent Domain is an abortion.
May 6, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Isn't that the class we are told, we would never have to use this info again for the rest of our lives. Hell, I still don't know what 5/16 x 2/3 = LOL You think multiplying fractions is algebra... That pretty much makes the point perfectly.
May 6, 20214 yr how can a company be legally compelled to give away IP? it would be nice to see these companies have a Jonas Salk moment, and it's also fair to say that a lot of what the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are based on is broadly understood from a scientific standpoint so I'm not even sure what aspects of these vaccines might be considered novel? frankly it would likely be a reputational nightmare for Pfizer/etc. to be seen as withholding the vaccine for monetary gain. I don't think the government needs, or should be, involved.
May 6, 20214 yr Im surprised Biden feels the need to address infrastructure after Obamas insanely successful stimulus programss. How is this all still a problem???
May 6, 20214 yr Author 6 minutes ago, vikas83 said: You can't violate a Constitutional protection by a majority vote of Congress. No, but that part of the Constitution was voted on at the Convention. I'm not sure if it was adopted by a majority or supermajority, but essentially the process was the same. I'll admit the situation is very dicey. Eminent domain is hugely controversial, and for good reason. I'm just trying to show that the move wouldn't be entirely unprecedented.
May 6, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: No, but that part of the Constitution was voted on at the Convention. I'm not sure if it was adopted by a majority or supermajority, but essentially the process was the same. I'll admit the situation is very dicey. Eminent domain is hugely controversial, and for good reason. I'm just trying to show that the move wouldn't be entirely unprecedented. I agree -- government abuse and intimidation aren't unprecedented. Frankly they are par for the course. That doesn't make it acceptable.
May 6, 20214 yr Author 16 minutes ago, vikas83 said: You think multiplying fractions is algebra... That pretty much makes the point perfectly. I suck at math, but even I can multiply fractions. It's like the easiest thing in the world next to simple arithmetic, lol.
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