July 12, 20242 yr 7 minutes ago, Paul852 said: Yeah, holding ourselves to a higher standard is exhausting, huh? It honestly gets to a point where I almost stop caring. Like I said in another post, I'll be fine either way, but when Trump starts making cuts to veterans health care, disparages minorities, and enables and encourages every down ballot Republican to challenge the result of an election they lose then I'll just shrug my shoulders. We get the leaders we deserve and anyone that stays home because of a lack of enthusiasm whole heatedly deserves everything that comes with a second Trump term.
July 12, 20242 yr 11 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: No, there's a bunch of potential voters who will just not vote for president if these are the options. This is about turnout. And Biden in his present state is depressing turnout. Give a viable option who can string sentences together and you get better turnout. It's that simple. I think you're overestimating the enthusiasm for Harris. But if Biden does step aside, I truly hope you're right.
July 12, 20242 yr Just now, Mike31mt said: Bro, you're on here whining about Biden all the time. Have some self-awareness.
July 12, 20242 yr 40 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said: seriously that clip might as well have been a still frame - one guy touched his chin some people are really dumb
July 12, 20242 yr 4 hours ago, Paul852 said: You're arguing and yet you've already said you'd still vote for him. Votes aren't changing in a majority of cases. It's getting to the point that it is what it is and Biden stepping down will make very little difference. Embrace the madness, cast you vote, and sit back and watch. 3 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Dr Philly said the same. But apparently there’s a bunch of people out there who are gonna switch to Trump 3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I'm not the voter Biden needs to actually win. I'm voting against Trump. And plenty of us will do that. But that's not enough to win. A competent democratic candidate would be crushing Trump. Biden is losing it. 3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: No, there's a bunch of potential voters who will just not vote for president if these are the options. This is about turnout. And Biden in his present state is depressing turnout. Give a viable option who can string sentences together and you get better turnout. It's that simple. 100% agree with JohnSnow. It is about turnout. The smart Repubs now want Biden to stay in the race. Obviously it is a long shot for Harris or some other Dem but Biden isn't winning. There are almost four months left and plenty of times where Biden will continue to F up like he did last night. In all honesty, it was over after the debate but the Dems just do their Dems thing and thus the cluster F of a few weeks. Last week I suggested we would know by Wed/Thur and that he would be gone by the weekend. That prediction looks pretty good right now.
July 12, 20242 yr 2 hours ago, DrPhilly said: 100% agree with JohnSnow. It is about turnout. The smart Repubs now want Biden to stay in the race. Obviously it is a long shot for Harris or some other Dem but Biden isn't winning. There are almost four months left and plenty of times where Biden will continue to F up like he did last night. In all honesty, it was over after the debate but the Dems just do their Dems thing and thus the cluster F of a few weeks. Last week I suggested we would know by Wed/Thur and that he would be gone by the weekend. That prediction looks pretty good right now. I think the Dems are prevaricating because as I understand the rules and have seen them described, they can't just anoint Harris with Biden's primary delegates (such as the primaries were), he can only endorse, the delegates are freed from any obligation (in truth the delegates are never strictly obligated and that fact is the Nuclear option if Biden decides to hang on till the convention). It's an open floor at the Convention for anyone to throw their hat in for a run off vote to decide the new nominee. My guess is that the party grandees are frantically going round warning people they think may be tempted to challenge Harris that they will be absolutely destroyed if they f*** this up by creating a spectacle at Convention.
July 12, 20242 yr 43 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: I think the Dems are prevaricating because as I understand the rules and have seen them described, they can't just anoint Harris with Biden's primary delegates (such as the primaries were), he can only endorse, the delegates are freed from any obligation (in truth the delegates are never strictly obligated and that fact is the Nuclear option if Biden decides to hang on till the convention). It's an open floor at the Convention for anyone to throw their hat in for a run off vote to decide the new nominee. My guess is that the party grandees are frantically going round warning people they think may be tempted to challenge Harris that they will be absolutely destroyed if they f*** this up by creating a spectacle at Convention. Add in the fact that they have made this election about "saving democracy" and any perceived anti-democratic action at the convention will play right into the Republicans' hands.
July 12, 20242 yr 34 minutes ago, BBE said: Add in the fact that they have made this election about "saving democracy" and any perceived anti-democratic action at the convention will play right into the Republicans' hands. Right. Back room deals are the reason they created the 17th Amendment.
July 12, 20242 yr 4 hours ago, DrPhilly said: 100% agree with JohnSnow. It is about turnout. The smart Repubs now want Biden to stay in the race. Obviously it is a long shot for Harris or some other Dem but Biden isn't winning. There are almost four months left and plenty of times where Biden will continue to F up like he did last night. In all honesty, it was over after the debate but the Dems just do their Dems thing and thus the cluster F of a few weeks. Last week I suggested we would know by Wed/Thur and that he would be gone by the weekend. That prediction looks pretty good right now. He said he’s not dropping out. What part of "no” don’t you understand?
July 12, 20242 yr 8 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: He said he’s not dropping out. What part of "no” don’t you understand? The same part as Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, and the others
July 12, 20242 yr 10 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: I think you're overestimating the enthusiasm for Harris. But if Biden does step aside, I truly hope you're right. it's not about enthusiasm for Harris. it's about a good chunk of people who won't vote for Trump, but also can't vote for someone who appears as incompetent as Biden. they're literally looking just for some competent adult under 65 years old.
July 12, 20242 yr 46 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: it's not about enthusiasm for Harris. Of course it is, otherwise she'd be polling far higher than she currently is. Quote it's about a good chunk of people who won't vote for Trump, but also can't vote for someone who appears as incompetent as Biden. they're literally looking just for some competent adult under 65 years old. The problem is you'll have some disaffected older voters who are going to be seriously turned off by who they perceive as party elites pushing out Biden against his will. You're gambling that the older voting bloc will be okay with watching Biden get stabbed in the back on the hopes that younger voters will jump aboard. It's an incredibly risky play, and the risk profile only gets worse the longer this plays out.
July 12, 20242 yr 3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Of course it is, otherwise she'd be polling far higher than she currently is. The problem is you'll have some disaffected older voters who are going to be seriously turned off by who they perceive as party elites pushing out Biden against his will. You're gambling that the older voting bloc will be okay with watching Biden get stabbed in the back on the hopes that younger voters will jump aboard. It's an incredibly risky play, and the risk profile only gets worse the longer this plays out. I don't know how good polling for Trump vs Harris is. She hasn't even campaigned, she's literally been just a name and has not been featured by the Biden administration in any way. Anecdotally, old democrats I think are some of the most strident detractors of Biden because they understand better than most how age impacts performance. Most older democrats I know absolutely want someone younger.
July 12, 20242 yr These are the types of voters I'm talking about and I feel like there could be a lot of them in the states that really matter (WiMiPa)
July 12, 20242 yr But to be sure, Biden would have to gracefully exit and campaign for Harris. I'm not dismissing that there are Biden supporters who would be pissed off if they thought he was being "pushed out". Which is why how he exits is as important as getting him to step aside. He has to come out and say "upon reflection, and after a hard look at my performances over the last month, I understand why I cannot continue. the American people deserve a candidate they have faith in to bring the stamina and energy necessary for this role, and while it hurts my pride to admit it, I cannot in good conscious ask the American people to put that faith in me." I don't know that he would go that far, but that would be the way to do it.
July 12, 20242 yr Sorry but one debate performance is not going to cause Biden to drop out no matter how much maga hopes it does.
July 12, 20242 yr Just now, jsdarkstar said: Sorry but one debate performance is not going to cause Biden to drop out no matter how much maga hopes it does. Sorry to break it to you, but the majority of republicans likely want Biden to stay in at this point.
July 12, 20242 yr 3 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Sorry but one debate performance is not going to cause Biden to drop out no matter how much maga hopes it does. If you think this is just about "one debate performance" you're fooling yourself. And MAGA is hoping and praying Joe stays in. His performance on camera in the last month has caused a lot of people to flip from going and voting for Biden against Trump to deciding they can't vote for either. That's the reality.
July 12, 20242 yr 2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: But to be sure, Biden would have to gracefully exit and campaign for Harris. I'm not dismissing that there are Biden supporters who would be pissed off if they thought he was being "pushed out". Which is why how he exits is as important as getting him to step aside. He has to come out and say "upon reflection, and after a hard look at my performances over the last month, I understand why I cannot continue. the American people deserve a candidate they have faith in to bring the stamina and energy necessary for this role, and while it hurts my pride to admit it, I cannot in good conscious ask the American people to put that faith in me." I don't know that he would go that far, but that would be the way to do it. Absolutely, preaching to the choir here, and that's why this has to happen soon to avoid those kinds of optics. I'd even go a step further and have him say he was given a neurological exam and didn't fare as well as a President should. Then even toss in a comment about Trump certainly would fail the same exam. Then hopefully his of Harris is enough to avoid a turbulent scenario at the convention. Of course, this takes a ton of coordination behind the scenes to get the logistics right and at this point, I'm almost convinced the democrats would F that up too. As a party, they're woefully incompetent and thoroughly incapable of playing the game.
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