Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[ManchesterEagle]

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

 

 

You are looking at Allen's rushing totals, but not applying any analysis to the raw numbers.

 

 

So, you expect Hurts this year to run 37 less times and pass 140 more times ??

Allen also had 4500 passing yards and 37 passing TD's in hear 3.  I just do not see Hurts doing it, as he will resort to running, and I bet that % stays over 20 %

 

Hurts needs to run less and pass more this year. I agree that what he did last year is not what we want long term, 

But too many people are just assuming he will do pretty much what he did last year and that will not necessarily be the case, particularly now he has AJ Brown.

[Iggles_Phan]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Because Allen is definitely a running QB. He’s improved dramatically as a passer, but he ran it 122 times last year.

If Hurts can get anywhere close to Allen, then we want him, even if he flames out at 31 rather than 40.

No.  He's not.  There's a difference between being able to run, and being a running QB.

[Iggles_Phan]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

He’s still a running QB and his stats were nearly identical to Jalen’s in his first 2 years. Then he got a top 10 WR and became a really good passer as well.

Jalen now has the same opportunity. 

I do love the Jalen Hurts - Josh Allen comparisons.  Hysterical. 

[nipples]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

He’s still a running QB and his stats were nearly identical to Jalen’s in his first 2 years. Then he got a top 10 WR and became a really good passer as well.

Jalen now has the same opportunity. 

The difference is Allen was a first round pick because he has a rocket for an arm so teams already viewed him as having elite potential. 

[ManchesterEagle]

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I do love the Jalen Hurts - Josh Allen comparisons.  Hysterical. 

 

8 minutes ago, nipples said:

The difference is Allen was a first round pick because he has a rocket for an arm so teams already viewed him as having elite potential. 

Rocket arms are overrated. See Carson Strong.

Yes Allen was a more highly regarded prospect. But he was also meant to be more NFL ready.

His stats in his first 2 years were very similar to Hurts. They both received a top 10 receiver in year 3. So the comparisons are valid.

[Iggles_Phan]

9 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Rocket arms are overrated. See Carson Strong.

Yes Allen was a more highly regarded prospect. But he was also meant to be more NFL ready.

His stats in his first 2 years were very similar to Hurts. They both received a top 10 receiver in year 3. So the comparisons are valid.

False.  He was meant to be more raw, but ridiculously talented. 

Please stop comparing box scores to determine how similar in talent players are.  It's lazy, but more importantly, it's completely inaccurate.

[pallidrone]

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

False.  He was meant to be more raw, but ridiculously talented. 

Please stop comparing box scores to determine how similar in talent players are.  It's lazy, but more importantly, it's completely inaccurate.

Incorrect. Josh Allen came from Wyoming where they ran a more pro style offense that Craig Bohl brought over from NDSU.

That alone made him a much better prospect then most that came out of places like Oklahoma and Alabama who both run RPO uptempo offenses that do not translate well into the NFL.

He had done 3 and 5 step drops and played under center in college where a lot of these guys have not.

He was considered raw because teams felt they could untap something from him that he didn't show in college.

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I do love the Jalen Hurts - Josh Allen comparisons.  Hysterical. 

What's hysterical, it seems, are the people that get worked up about comparisons. 

 

We don't know how Hurts' 3rd season will go yet, but his 1st two seasons compare favorably with Allen's. Hurts' first two seasons are also very similar to McNabb's in terms of growth and events. People compared Jerome Bettis to a bus and nobody balked. A person could compare a RB like Ricky Williams to Cheech & Chong if they want. They can compare John Elway to a horse ... 

[Iggles_Phan]

31 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Incorrect. Josh Allen came from Wyoming where they ran a more pro style offense that Craig Bohl brought over from NDSU.

That alone made him a much better prospect then most that came out of places like Oklahoma and Alabama who both run RPO uptempo offenses that do not translate well into the NFL.

He had done 3 and 5 step drops and played under center in college where a lot of these guys have not.

He wad considered raw because teams felt they could untap something from him that he didn't show in college.

Really?  That alone, eh?  Bohl came to Wyoming in 2013.  How many QBs have been drafted from there?  

Let me help you.  The answer is exactly 1 - his name is Josh Allen.

Meanwhile, since 2018 (half that time) Oklahoma and Alabama have had 3 QBs drafted that played there.  Hurts, Tua and Mac Jones for Alabama.  Oklahoma has Hurts (nice that he can count twice), Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield.

 

Now... can we stop with the false narratives.  Allen came from a pro system, but HE (not the system) was an untapped potential.  He had the raw tools, aka, his arm, height athleticism.  But, he was far from a polished QB, and wasn't looked at as a sure thing.  But given his raw abilities, he was looked at as a better prospect, not more NFL ready.

 

If it were all about that pro-style offense at Wyoming (aka, 'that alone'), I wonder why no other QB has been drafted in that time.  I'm guessing its something a little more than just that... maybe talent.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I do love the Jalen Hurts - Josh Allen comparisons.  Hysterical. 

Yeah, Hurts is gonna grow 4” and have an arm transplant

[Iggles_Phan]

14 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

What's hysterical, it seems, are the people that get worked up about comparisons. 

 

We don't know how Hurts' 3rd season will go yet, but his 1st two seasons compare favorably with Allen's. Hurts' first two seasons are also very similar to McNabb's in terms of growth and events. People compared Jerome Bettis to a bus and nobody balked. A person could compare a RB like Ricky Williams to Cheech & Chong if they want. They can compare John Elway to a horse ... 

Wow.  That's really quite the amazing false equivalency you've got going on.  

So close...

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Wow.  That's really quite the amazing false equivalency you've got going on.  

Nope. The hysteria is from you complaining about comparisons. No false equivalency. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Nope. The hysteria is from you complaining about comparisons. No false equivalency. 

There is no comparison between Allen and Hurts.

Hurts will never have the physical gifts of Josh Allen.

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Nope. The hysteria is from you complaining about comparisons. No false equivalency. 

Bettis is to a bus as Hurts is to Josh Allen?  

Nope.  Sorry.  That's textbook false equivalency.    

[brkmsn]

Just now, downundermike said:

There is no comparison between Allen and Hurts.

Hurts will never have the physical gifts of Josh Allen.

Comparing Hurts and Allen's Pass velocity at combine:

Hurts --- 54 MPH

Allen --- 62 MPH

 

That's a comparison. Are you saying we can't compare that?

[brkmsn]

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Bettis is to a bus as Hurts is to Josh Allen?  

Nope.  Sorry.  That's textbook false equivalency.    

I never said that. I said they were all comparisons, not that the comparisons were equal. Go look up some new fallacies and see which one you did there. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Comparing Hurts and Allen's Pass velocity at combine:

Hurts --- 54 MPH

Allen --- 62 MPH

 

That's a comparison. Are you saying we can't compare that?

As you can see, there is no comparison. 
 

Allen is bigger, stronger, and has an elite arm.  Hurts will never be able to do things from the pocket that Josh Allen can.

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

As you can see, there is no comparison. 
 

Allen is bigger, stronger, and has an elite arm.  Hurts will never be able to do things from the pocket that Josh Allen can.

"There is no comparison" is an expression, not a fact. There absolutely is a comparison. Brees threw at 52 MPH and was able to do plenty from the pocket on the way to a probable HOF career. The only thing a QB needs to do is help his team win games. Pass velocity doesn't determine the QB's success. Herbert, btw, threw 53 MPH. 

[Infam]

31 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

They can compare John Elway to a horse ... 

I see it.. 👀

[Bwestbrook36]

 

[Shalodeep]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:45 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Rocket arms are overrated. See Carson Strong.

Yes Allen was a more highly regarded prospect. But he was also meant to be more NFL ready.

His stats in his first 2 years were very similar to Hurts. They both received a top 10 receiver in year 3. So the comparisons are valid.

Yes overrated....it's overrated for a play to always be available vs being outran because the receiver is 40 yards...it's overrated to be able to throw a 20 yard out route to the far side quick enough so the coverage can't cut underneath....it's overrated to be able to consistently throw a laser through a tight window before it closes up....yes, rocket arms are overrated.  You know what's not overrated? Running the ball when there are passing opportunities everywhere on the field. 

Allen is a tall QB who sees the field and distributes anywhere on the field with his rocket arm. He didn't receive decent coaching until he arrived in the NFL and it took a few seasons. Jalen is 6"1, but crouches to like 5"10. It's the weirdest thing I've seen. He doesn't keep his eyes down field, and had the top coaches through college and still came out raw as hell....maybe he isn't as coachable as he is spoken about because with those guys, he should of been top notch.

[brkmsn]

56 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Yes overrated....it's overrated for a play to always be available vs being outran because the receiver is 40 yards...it's overrated to be able to throw a 20 yard out route to the far side quick enough so the coverage can't cut underneath....it's overrated to be able to consistently throw a laser through a tight window before it closes up....yes, rocket arms are overrated.  You know what's not overrated? Running the ball when there are passing opportunities everywhere on the field. 

Allen is a tall QB who sees the field and distributes anywhere on the field with his rocket arm. He didn't receive decent coaching until he arrived in the NFL and it took a few seasons. Jalen is 6"1, but crouches to like 5"10. It's the weirdest thing I've seen. He doesn't keep his eyes down field, and had the top coaches through college and still came out raw as hell....maybe he isn't as coachable as he is spoken about because with those guys, he should of been top notch.

A "rocket arm" is a luxury like running ability. It's not a requirement for a successful NFL career (See Montana, Brees, Wilson, etc...) It can be a blessing and a curse (see Wentz) just like running ability. 

As far as coaching, once again, take a prospect like Lawrence with all the hype, from a big college football program with great coaching --- he still needs time in the NFL to develop at the next level. Is he improving? I'm sure we'll find out more this year, but Hurts is improving, which indicates he does respond positively to the coaching. That he came out of college "raw" in your opinion is an indication of how he was used in college. They weren't asking him to be a Pro at Alabama or Oklahoma, they were asking him to be a college QB and coaching him as such to win at that level. 

[Shalodeep]

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

A "rocket arm" is a luxury like running ability. It's not a requirement for a successful NFL career (See Montana, Brees, Wilson, etc...) It can be a blessing and a curse (see Wentz) just like running ability. 

As far as coaching, once again, take a prospect like Lawrence with all the hype, from a big college football program with great coaching --- he still needs time in the NFL to develop at the next level. Is he improving? I'm sure we'll find out more this year, but Hurts is improving, which indicates he does respond positively to the coaching. That he came out of college "raw" in your opinion is an indication of how he was used in college. They weren't asking him to be a Pro at Alabama or Oklahoma, they were asking him to be a college QB and coaching him as such to win at that level. 

They were using what he had, and that wasn't an NFL QB skill set or mindset. I've listed the things I dislike about his game and all the things I do like about him. The luxury that Allen has with arm strength is far superior than Jalens legs ....even though Allen runs just as well as Hurts....that's why it's not fair to compare, or just not equivalent I guess. You can compare apples to ass droppings if you want, but common sense says don't do it. Both of their running ability is 9 out of 10.... But get to arm strength it's a 5/10 compared to a 12/10 

Proof of Alabama being able to put out a pro QB is Mac Jones. A dude without any insane traits, but knew how to be a pro QB and looked the part. Probably going to be a headache for the next decade. Alabama is capable of making NFL QBs, but couldn't with Hurts because that's not his skill set coming out and hasn't shown it yet 

[Iggles_Phan]

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

A "rocket arm" is a luxury like running ability. It's not a requirement for a successful NFL career (See Montana, Brees, Wilson, etc...) It can be a blessing and a curse (see Wentz) just like running ability. 

As far as coaching, once again, take a prospect like Lawrence with all the hype, from a big college football program with great coaching --- he still needs time in the NFL to develop at the next level. Is he improving? I'm sure we'll find out more this year, but Hurts is improving, which indicates he does respond positively to the coaching. That he came out of college "raw" in your opinion is an indication of how he was used in college. They weren't asking him to be a Pro at Alabama or Oklahoma, they were asking him to be a college QB and coaching him as such to win at that level. 

Actually, Alabama asked him to be a backup college QB because he wasn't a good enough passer.

[ManchesterEagle]

On 8/14/2022 at 8:43 PM, brkmsn said:

"There is no comparison" is an expression, not a fact. There absolutely is a comparison. Brees threw at 52 MPH and was able to do plenty from the pocket on the way to a probable HOF career. The only thing a QB needs to do is help his team win games. Pass velocity doesn't determine the QB's success. Herbert, btw, threw 53 MPH. 

Exactly - there are many other QBs who took a big leap in year 3. Rivers, Ryan, Brees and Tannehill to name just a few.

Yes Allen has more physical gifts, but it still doesn’t change that he was also a QB who ran a lot and had very similar stats to Hurts in his first 2 years and then received a gift at receiver.

Plus Allen is a top 3 QB in the NFL. We want Hurts to realistically get into the 8-12 range. It is possible he takes that step with the help of Brown and more familiarity with the offense. It amazes me how many people are shut off to the possibility of a young raw QB continuing to get better.