Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Mike030270]

5 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Disagree 100%.

That was a late hit that he left himself open for.  It was obvious that he had no shot at reaching the first down marker.  It was 3rd and 5.  The best play there, especially it being a preseason game, was to throw the ball away and line up again at 4th and 5, punt or kick the FG.  The worst thing he could do in a preseason game was go for that one extra yard.  What was to be gained?  He took an unnecessary hit, that he had the power to avoid.  He chose to leave himself in harms' way.

Secondly, the argument about that he could have been hit like that while in the pocket is a weak one.  QBs in the pocket get protections that 'runners' just don't have.  Granted, that's all well and good, but the damage is usually done already when the flag comes out.  BUT... the reverse side of that is that defenders approach hitting the QB in the pocket differently than out of the pocket, due to the protections and the training they have been getting for years and years.   We saw it with Cam Newton, who complained all the time that he wasn't afforded the same protections as pocket passers even when they were out of the pocket as well.  Long story short... running with the ball as a matter of design or as a major part of your game from the QB position means taking more hits... some legal, some illegal.  Some of the illegal hits will be flagged, but the reality is that some won't.  But, even if the late hit is penalized, what good is that if Hurts is knocked out of the game or for multiple games?

 

Exhibit A from this past weekend's games.   Qbs outside the pocket have liberties taken on them by the defense.

 

Actually looks like he led with his shoulder but it's still illegal because QB was sliding to end the play and so he's pretty much a red shirt at practice

[Iggles_Phan]

19 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Actually looks like he led with his shoulder but it's still illegal because QB was sliding to end the play and so he's pretty much a red shirt at practice

I agree.  But, he did slide before the hit.  The point being though, it was an unnecessary hit, and should have been called.  And more importantly, it will happen to Hurts.  He needs to know that and he needs to anticipate the late hits coming.

[EazyEaglez]

Well so much for that Jalen Hurts is Daniel Jones talk considering Jalen’s not the one splitting first team reps. 

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well so much for that Jalen Hurts is Daniel Jones talk considering Jalen’s not the one splitting first team reps. 

Jalen is pretty equivalent to Tyrod Taylor, not Jones...who the hell said he was Daniel jones? I'm on here about every day and have seen that zero times 

[EagleVA]

10 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Jalen is pretty equivalent to Tyrod Taylor, 

Tyrod Taylor is a very underrated QB, dude got game, he should have been a starter when he was in Baltimore and damn near everywhere else  he's been.

For some reason he has the shortest hook I've ever seen, OL plays like sheet, he runs for his life and the finger is pointed at him.

[birdman#12]

The giants did what so many teams do......they draft a QB very early, start him way too soon, surround him with a lousy offensive line and mediocre receivers, and expect him to "save" the franchise....then a team will change HC and OCs and expect the kid to develop when, in fact, he has to learn a new offense with a head coach who many not even want him there.

Teams stay in QB purgatory by their own doing.  The eagles might do it themselves again this year.......How much is Hurts expected to improve?  What does he have to accomplish?  The eagles could overreact to the "next big thing" coming out in the draft and unload Hurts for another project.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

then a team will change HC and OCs and expect the kid to develop when, in fact, he has to learn a new offense

So he's basically a rookie ..........................

[PhillyMG]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well so much for that Jalen Hurts is Daniel Jones talk considering Jalen’s not the one splitting first team reps. 

The only comparison between Hurts and Jones that I can think of, at least to me, are that they are two QBs who I don't want and wouldn't want as the starting QB on the Eagles.

[EazyEaglez]

30 minutes ago, PhillyMG said:

The only comparison between Hurts and Jones that I can think of, at least to me, are that they are two QBs who I don't want and wouldn't want as the starting QB on the Eagles.

Oh you don’t have to worry about Jones ever being the starting quarterback for the Eagles, but if Hurts starting really irks you that much then you might want to find a new team. 

[Shalodeep]

4 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Oh you don’t have to worry about Jones ever being the starting quarterback for the Eagles, but if Hurts starting really irks you that much then you might want to find a new team. 

Rinse and repeat 

[birdman#12]

6 hours ago, downundermike said:

So he's basically a rookie ..........................

No, not quite......but depending on how different it is, a young QB goes thru another learning curve. And it may be an offense that isn't ideal for his skill set.  But the biggest problem usually is the new HC wants to bring in "his" guy, whether drafted or traded for...and the new HC is less likely to be patient with the inherited young QB.

NFL HCs are under enormous pressure to win now....the 5 year plan is no longer.  A HC may get 3 years to make big jumps in performance. An NFL QB typically takes 2-3 years to master an offense......and the math doesn't add up when a HC is on the hot seat and they a QB high in the draft.  It's win now with this new shiny young QB, or get fired.  

The problem is that these teams that take QB in the first 1-10 picks, the team itself is bad and lacks the necessary offensive talent to support the QB.  

[MF POON]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:41 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

I agree, I'm just getting annoyed with the Allen comparisons lol. Physically yes Wentz is more comparable but, Wentz was a head case ahole who doesn't do sheet when it matters. Allen so far has been getting better and better in big games. 

I simply made the comparison due to "absolute canon" being thrown around as a requirement for success, and how QB's with that attribute can fall from grace easily. I don't think it'll happen with Allen, but I didn't think it would happen to Wentz either. 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

I simply made the comparison due to "absolute canon" being thrown around as a requirement for success, and how QB's with that attribute can fall from grace easily. I don't think it'll happen with Allen, but I didn't think it would happen to Wentz either. 

Nope.  That didn't happen.

[MF POON]

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nope.  That didn't happen.

It's been repeatedly used in regard to why Hurts needs to be replaced.  That, and him being a running QB.

[EagleVA]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I simply made the comparison due to "absolute canon" being thrown around as a requirement for success, and how QB's with that attribute can fall from grace easily. I don't think it'll happen with Allen, but I didn't think it would happen to Wentz either. 

When your accuracy is up and down it'll happen to any QB, this is what's hampering Hurts more than his run right antics. 

[MF POON]

1 minute ago, EagleVA said:

When your accuracy is up and down it'll happen to any QB, this is what's hampering Hurts more than his run right antics. 

I agree. 

[EagleVA]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I agree. 

What county are you in?

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

It's been repeatedly used in regard to why Hurts needs to be replaced.  That, and him being a running QB.

Nope.  It has been used as a reason that the comparison to Allen is nonsense, because their skill sets are so different.  Hurts can never become Allen.  As I laid it out here.

 

On 8/16/2022 at 5:43 PM, Iggles_Phan said:

Simple.   People are saying that Hurts cannot become Josh Allen, because he's not Josh Allen's size, nor does he have his arm.  IF, and that's a huge if right now, he can become as productive as Allen, he will need to do it very differently.  He can't do it with the gun slinging style that Allen has.  He won't be able to throw it deep like he does, nor throw the outs that he does, or so many other things he does.  They are very different styles of QB.

So, when people scoff at the comparison to Allen, it's because it's not a realistic comp.  Find a different mediocre QB for his first two years that fits Hurts' style to make a comp.  Yes, tall, big armed QBs have failed, time and again.  And short, weak armed QBs have failed more frequently.    Most QBs fail, that's the reality of the NFL.  But, guys that meet the prototypical criteria generally have a better chance than those that are starting off with less than prototypical physical attributes.  Sure, there are examples of those who didn't who went on to have great success, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.  

[MF POON]

9 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

What county are you in?

I'm in Fredericksburg, you?

[MF POON]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nope.  It has been used as a reason that the comparison to Allen is nonsense, because their skill sets are so different.  Hurts can never become Allen.  As I laid it out here.

 

I recall someone making a post about mph and what not, and I don't think Hurts' arm strength is the issue, it's his decision making on the deep ball that is. He usually pulls the trigger too late, or doesn't at all.

[EagleVA]

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

I'm in Fredericksburg, you?

Prince William

[MF POON]

1 minute ago, EagleVA said:

Prince William

There any good bars to catch games at there? I used to go to Ventnor in DC sometimes as it was a good Eagles spot, but it shut down. 

[EagleVA]

3 minutes ago, MF POON said:

There any good bars to catch games at there? I used to go to Ventnor in DC sometimes as it was a good Eagles spot, but it shut down. 

There was one that I used to attend but it's now under new ownership, not sure if they have the screens as I've never been there since the take over, I did however see their menu which looks scrumptious, I'll have to check them out in the near future.

 

[Iggles_Phan]

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I recall someone making a post about mph and what not, and I don't think Hurts' arm strength is the issue, it's his decision making on the deep ball that is. He usually pulls the trigger too late, or doesn't at all.

Yes, someone made a post about the mph to show that they have different skill sets and that the Allen comparison is lazy and weak.

 

One of Hurts' issues is his arm strength.  Why is that, when players like Joe Montana, Drew Brees, Jeff Garcia and others have had just as weak an arm, if not weaker?   Because they had anticipation and vision that Hurts doesn't possess to compensate for that lack of zip.  Hurts' recognition is slow, and if Allen has the exact same recognition issues, he has the arm to be slow to recognize things and till rifle the ball in.  When one has a weaker arm, they need to compensate with other things.  It can work, but not having that arm to compensate for late recognition, and not having the recognition to compensate for the lack of elite arm strength is a bad combination... so he has to compensate with something else... and that's his legs.  He has gotten away with that at all levels of football, because of his legs.  But, Alabama (Saban) recognized his limitations, which is why he was benched at halftime in the National Championship game for a true freshman QB, who was a better passer.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts' recognition is slow, and if Allen has the exact same recognition issues, he has the arm to be slow to recognize things and till rifle the ball in.  When one has a weaker arm, they need to compensate with other things.  It can work, but not having that arm to compensate for late recognition, and not having the recognition to compensate for the lack of elite arm strength is a bad combination... so he has to compensate with something else... and that's his legs.

And when they do the MPH readings at the combine, there is no pass rush, and you can put your entire body into it.

Guys like Allen, Mahommes and Herbert, can still make those throws, with velocity, off platform and on the move, using just their arm, do not need to put their entire body into it.

That is why is is called arm strength.