Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[MF POON]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes, someone made a post about the mph to show that they have different skill sets and that the Allen comparison is lazy and weak.

 

One of Hurts' issues is his arm strength.  Why is that, when players like Joe Montana, Drew Brees, Jeff Garcia and others have had just as weak an arm, if not weaker?   Because they had anticipation and vision that Hurts doesn't possess to compensate for that lack of zip.  Hurts' recognition is slow, and if Allen has the exact same recognition issues, he has the arm to be slow to recognize things and till rifle the ball in.  When one has a weaker arm, they need to compensate with other things.  It can work, but not having that arm to compensate for late recognition, and not having the recognition to compensate for the lack of elite arm strength is a bad combination... so he has to compensate with something else... and that's his legs.  He has gotten away with that at all levels of football, because of his legs.  But, Alabama (Saban) recognized his limitations, which is why he was benched at halftime in the National Championship game for a true freshman QB, who was a better passer.  

Well yeah, that's what we're all hoping Hurts fixes and gets better at, anticipation. His arm strength is fine. 

 

4 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

There was one that I used to attend but it's now under new ownership, not sure if they have the screens as I've never been there since the take over, I did however see their menu which looks scrumptious, I'll have to check them out in the near future.

 

Nice! Yeah if it's a good spot I'm always down to catch games with Eagles fans. I have a place near me but it's pretty sad, at least the bartenders are cool though lol

[MF POON]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

And when they do the MPH readings at the combine, there is no pass rush, and you can put your entire body into it.

Guys like Allen, Mahommes and Herbert, can still make those throws, with velocity, off platform and on the move, using just their arm, do not need to put their entire body into it.

That is why is is called arm strength.

I'm pretty sure the mph comparison was to show that Hurts' arm strength isn't as weak as many were making it out to be. he had a higher mph than Herbert, who everyone says has a strong arm.

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, MF POON said:

Well yeah, that's what we're all hoping Hurts fixes and gets better at, anticipation. His arm strength is fine. 

Not quite.  His arm strength is only fine, if he learns how to play from the pocket.   Trouble is, he seems to think that his legs are the best move for him.  A little bragadocious about getting freaky and all that.   And the OC is playing right into that.  And what we've seen... time and time again, QBs that play with that style have a very limited shelf life in the league.  Usually they take the one hit (sometimes just the accumulation of hits) and they lose that mobility, and the slide down the mountain is faster than the ascension up the mountain was.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I'm pretty sure the mph comparison was to show that Hurts' arm strength isn't as weak as many were making it out to be. he had a higher mph than Herbert, who everyone says has a strong arm.

But Herbert can make the throws in a game, off platform and on the move.

The #1 throw in this video, rolling right, has a second to plant and throw, does not get his body into it, and you see the results.

Hurts would need to do his little jump stop, get his entire body into it to make this throw, this is basically all arm from Herbert.

 

 

[EagleVA]

7 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I'm pretty sure the mph comparison was to show that Hurts' arm strength isn't as weak as many were making it out to be. he had a higher mph than Herbert, who everyone says has a strong arm.

Right, I've never bought into the weak arm thing with Hurts, his problem is confidence, when he underthrows a deep pass it's because he's afraid of overthrowing, dude needs just let it fly with no fear.

[MF POON]

13 minutes ago, downundermike said:

But Herbert can make the throws in a game, off platform and on the move.

The #1 throw in this video, rolling right, has a second to plant and throw, does not get his body into it, and you see the results.

Hurts would need to do his little jump stop, get his entire body into it to make this throw, this is basically all arm from Herbert.

 

 

I don't see much difference lol

[TorontoEagle]

33 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Right, I've never bought into the weak arm thing with Hurts, his problem is confidence, when he underthrows a deep pass it's because he's afraid of overthrowing, dude needs just let it fly with no fear.

That's some interesting mental gymnastics....

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

That's some interesting mental gymnastics....

He did his research ................

[Shalodeep]

59 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I don't see much difference lol

Which throw of Hurts is equivalent to #1

[MF POON]

6 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Which throw of Hurts is equivalent to #1

I've copied it at the throw to Djax in the dallas game. threw it from his 10 to the Dallas 39 for the TD. It may not work but start at the 33 second mark

[Shalodeep]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I've copied it at the throw to Djax in the dallas game. threw it from his 10 to the Dallas 39 for the TD

Best looking throw he has had definitely. Had to look for it because it started from the beginning. The thing is to do it consistently. He has a few throws where he looks the part, but they are surrounded by film that makes him look awful. Those who doubt want more of those highlights than his best runs filling up 70% of his highlights. That's where he needs to work on his game 

It's almost why I hate highlights. They are propaganda in the end because it ignores the dumpster fire that happened before lol

[Iggles_Phan]

6 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I've copied it at the throw to Djax in the dallas game. threw it from his 10 to the Dallas 39 for the TD. It may not work but start at the 33 second mark

1 - Hurts' throw is 50 yards.  Maybe 51 yards.  Roughly 4 second hang time.  Herbert's is 67 yards... slightly longer hang time.  Not the same at all.

 

2 - The big question is... has Hurts ever made a throw like Herbert's 2nd throw that was tied for 2nd?  That's the type of zip that I just don't think Hurts has, or ever will.  That's a throw where he's moving to his left, has to tight his body around and make a tight window throw.  That's a play where the QB just trusts his arm to get the ball there.  In that exact same scenario, I'm sure Hurts pulls the ball down and runs for it.  Might pick up 5-10 yards and get it closer to the goalline.  Likely takes a shot too if he decides he wants to go for the goal line instead of just taking what's there.   That's what folks are talking about.  I've never seen Hurts ever even attempt that type of throw.   If he has and I forgot about it, I'd love to be shown it.

[MF POON]

24 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

1 - Hurts' throw is 50 yards.  Maybe 51 yards.  Roughly 4 second hang time.  Herbert's is 67 yards... slightly longer hang time.  Not the same at all.

 

2 - The big question is... has Hurts ever made a throw like Herbert's 2nd throw that was tied for 2nd?  That's the type of zip that I just don't think Hurts has, or ever will.  That's a throw where he's moving to his left, has to tight his body around and make a tight window throw.  That's a play where the QB just trusts his arm to get the ball there.  In that exact same scenario, I'm sure Hurts pulls the ball down and runs for it.  Might pick up 5-10 yards and get it closer to the goalline.  Likely takes a shot too if he decides he wants to go for the goal line instead of just taking what's there.   That's what folks are talking about.  I've never seen Hurts ever even attempt that type of throw.   If he has and I forgot about it, I'd love to be shown it.

There's throws in there that match the tied for 2nd. There's one against Washington, it just doesn't go for a TD as the eagles are about 10 yards back from where the chargers are. If you don't see them, you aren't looking lol.  In terms of the distance on the #1, sure Herbert has the longer throw, but it's silly to say the passes aren't similar. it's still an accurate deep ball. I'm not going to shrug off the pass simply because the WR wasn't further down field. 

[Iggles_Phan]

42 minutes ago, MF POON said:

There's throws in there that match the tied for 2nd. There's one against Washington, it just doesn't go for a TD as the eagles are about 10 yards back from where the chargers are. If you don't see them, you aren't looking lol.  In terms of the distance on the #1, sure Herbert has the longer throw, but it's silly to say the passes aren't similar. it's still an accurate deep ball. I'm not going to shrug off the pass simply because the WR wasn't further down field. 

No one is shrugging it off.  

If you mean the one at the 1:00 mark of the video, that's not the same at all.   Herbert is moving to his left, then throws against his body to get the ball into double coverage.  The one against Washington, Hurts is running forward and throws the ball directly in front of himself.  It's a good throw, but still not the same. 

 

[EagleVA]

6 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

That's some interesting mental gymnastics....

Why else would he underthrow a 40 yard pass? 

Hell, Payton Manning could throw 40 yards even when his arm was shot.

[TorontoEagle]

53 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Why else would he underthrow a 40 yard pass? 

Hell, Payton Manning could throw 40 yards even when his arm was shot.

I’ll let you connect the dots 

[opa-opa]

I dunno seems to me raw arm strength is one of the easier things one can improve on? Just lift more weights?

[birdman#12]

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

I dunno seems to me raw arm strength is one of the easier things one can improve on? Just lift more weights?

You can improve arm strength for passing a football from repetition.  Strength training helps, and improving arm strength means little if you can't do it accurately.  Also, throwing that many passes, it's imperative to do it without losing fundamentals of throwing and footwork.  It's not as easy as it sounds but it can be done.

[brkmsn]

8 hours ago, opa-opa said:

I dunno seems to me raw arm strength is one of the easier things one can improve on? Just lift more weights?

There are different measures of arm strength for QBs. Some can throw darts (like John Elway) and some can really air out a deep pass (like Herbert). Not all QBs can do both and a lot of it comes down to natural physical attributes. Typically a taller QB with longer arms has the advantage on distance. Guys like Russell Wilson and Jalen Hurts aren't likely to get more than about 55 air yards on a deep pass. Shorter QBs aren't typically known for having rifles either. One exception I can think of is Vick.  One other thing to consider here is that arm muscle mass can plausibly get to the point where it hinders a QB's throwing mechanics (see Tebow). You don't see a lot of pro QBs with chiseled arms.  

[EazyEaglez]

On 8/17/2022 at 5:23 PM, Shalodeep said:

Jalen is pretty equivalent to Tyrod Taylor, not Jones...who the hell said he was Daniel jones? I'm on here about every day and have seen that zero times 

Actually Taylor, and Hurts careers are nothing alike. Taylor was given 4 years to groom while Jalen wasn’t. Taylor has also progressively gotten worse every season while Jalen hasn’t. The only thing comparable to them is they both are black and can use their legs. This has nothing to do with how their careers will fall. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:38 PM, Shalodeep said:

Rinse and repeat 

You boys crying about Hurts being the quarterback? Couldn’t agree more with you. 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

There are different measures of arm strength for QBs. Some can throw darts (like John Elway) and some can really air out a deep pass (like Herbert). Not all QBs can do both and a lot of it comes down to natural physical attributes. Typically a taller QB with longer arms has the advantage on distance. Guys like Russell Wilson and Jalen Hurts aren't likely to get more than about 55 air yards on a deep pass. Shorter QBs aren't typically known for having rifles either. One exception I can think of is Vick.  One other thing to consider here is that arm muscle mass can plausibly get to the point where it hinders a QB's throwing mechanics (see Tebow). You don't see a lot of pro QBs with chiseled arms.  

Yeah... this isn't true.  A QB who can throw a dart, can also throw a deep pass.  Elway easily threw the ball 70 yards in the air.  The difference you are looking to describe is the release time.  Long loping deliveries are generally not considered to be as hard a throw, because the time from the decision to throw, until the ball is delivered is longer, than a QB who has a much shorter delivery.   Focus on Marino, not Elway for that, but Marino could still air it out like very few ever could, but he generally didn't need to, because he could just throw it basically on a line 55 yards rather than drop in a rainbow.  But the real question about arm strength has nothing to do with how far they can throw the ball, or how fast they can throw the ball when they have a proper platform... it has everything to do with how hard (and accurately) they can throw the ball when they don't have a proper base, proper body mechanics, can't push off their back foot, have to contort their torso to just get their shoulders turned to make the throw, etc.  That is where true 'arm' strength is determined.  

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

There are different measures of arm strength for QBs. Some can throw darts (like John Elway) and some can really air out a deep pass (like Herbert). Not all QBs can do both and a lot of it comes down to natural physical attributes. Typically a taller QB with longer arms has the advantage on distance. Guys like Russell Wilson and Jalen Hurts aren't likely to get more than about 55 air yards on a deep pass. Shorter QBs aren't typically known for having rifles either. One exception I can think of is Vick.  One other thing to consider here is that arm muscle mass can plausibly get to the point where it hinders a QB's throwing mechanics (see Tebow). You don't see a lot of pro QBs with chiseled arms.  

Overall there’s more to football than just size and even skill. We have seen plenty of the big guy/big arm guys come into this league year after year and frankly fail. Arguably the two greatest quarterbacks ever were drafted in the 3rd and 6th rounds so clearly neither guy had all the attributes of what is ASSumed the wreath quarterbacks are supposed to have. How many years now has Arron Rodgers been considered the best yet he has as many SB victories as Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Phill Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and many more average to below average quarterbacks. This idea that you need a certain type of mold of quarterback to win is false. I will add nothing kills a team that has invested so heavily financially on a quarterback than when that quarterback goes down with injury. Anytime Rodgers got hurt (another stupid ASSumption that only running quarterbacks get hurt) his team is basically doomed from that point on, because most of these teams can’t afford to have a solid backup quarterback and often times have to let talented players walk out the door to maintain the cap. 

[Shalodeep]

47 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

You boys crying about Hurts being the quarterback? Couldn’t agree more with you. 

Elementary comeback from an elementary man. Telling others to find another team proves you have nothing to add to the discussion. So don't discuss...or to use your logic. You don't like the discussion, find another board

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Actually Taylor, and Hurts careers are nothing alike. Taylor was given 4 years to groom while Jalen wasn’t. Taylor has also progressively gotten worse every season while Jalen hasn’t. The only thing comparable to them is they both are black and can use their legs. This has nothing to do with how their careers will fall. 

Their playing styles and how much they are loved by their teammates and coaches are identical.... Yes Tyrod waited longer for an opportunity, but watching their highlights is a mirror image of one another. 

Also jalen was a second round pick that was drafted to be a high end back up for cheap and will say respectfully has lived up to that need. Tyrod was drafted in the sixth round and has wildly overachieved for a shot in the dark draft pick. You are pretty good at talking about something without any context to make you sound smarter than you really are. Should teach a class in it.