9 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

"Everybody wants an elite QB"

False.   I do not. 

Is that "elite" QB going to play 40 or 50 Million dollars a year better than the QB on the 2nd round rookie deal?

If your team is built around that "elite" QB,  what happens when he's hurt?  You're screwed.  If you're paying him a ton, there's no way whatever backup you have is going to be anywhere near good enough.

I'll take Jalen Hurts, and I'll bring in 2nd round or later running QB whenever I see one I like.  The Eagles have Greg Ward Jr, who got Heisman votes as a QB for Houston, he's playing WR, and has played well, despite not having the 4.4 speed.   Tyree Jackson was with the Bills  in the preseason as a QB in 2019.  He's being called a TE.   Both of those players could be QBs.  D'eriq King is shorter than most QBs,  but it's said he runs a 4.4 40.   He might be a position convert to wr/rb/qb weapon.  jet sweeper guy, but can throw. 

You can make that same argument for any position. You can try all you want to argue that the Eagles' defense was better off without Reggie White (and his huge salary at the time), but the Packers are hoisting a Lombardi Trophy with his help. 

Acting like a team is automatically screwed when their franchise QB gets hurt is ignoring history. Backups like Earl Morrall, Jeff Hostetler, Jason Garrett, Nick Foles, etc... have stepped up for their respective teams and performed capably. 

I realize you have a crush on the concept of running QBs. They are a dime a dozen in college. Some of the better athletes at the position are often asked to move to a different position in the NFL. All the backups I mentioned above that stepped in for their teams were adept at passing, not running. The list of Super Bowl winning QBs that could run, but not pass is extremely short. Some of the best running QBs the league has ever seen failed to win (or have yet to win) Super Bowls (Tarkenton, Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, Jackson) and all these guys can throw as well. Steve Young was mobile, but a great passer and he had success. Elway had success as well, but wasn't much as a runner by the time he won his Super Bowls. Cunningham's most successful season as a pro came when he settled in as a pocket passer late in his career. Vick wasted the first half of his career relying his athletic ability rather than trying to improve as a passer. 

I prefer my QBs to have mobility, but I doubt the patriots regret paying Brady all that money over the years. I doubt Tampa regrets paying him last year. 

You should continue to be you. However, if you want to sell everybody else on the idea that we should have a revolving door at QB with QBs that run first, you should probably have some examples of success to back up your sales pitch.

10 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

I know I am nitpicking here but I would say we again saw the best of Hurts and the worst of Hurts in this game. There was a lot more good than bad - absolutely great first half. In fact, the best half of Hurts career. Some of his throws were absolute gems - the two TDs to Smith, the back foot lop to Goedert. Always said we needed to let the season play out and give him time even if the signs earlier in the year weren't positive. This was the first time this season I thought he looked like a possible long-term QB solution for the franchise.

But his 3rd quarter really bugged me - two drives and on both he had plays which could have / should have easily swung the game's momentum the other way. The dropped INT by Surtain was a horrific decision and terrible throw in that situation. Then following that up horrible play which did end up INT - yes his arm got hit slightly but no reason to throw it into double coverage with the safety just sitting back there. Luckily that fumble and return from Slay bailed him out big time. Between that fumble score and the run game, we closed it out so he never got the chance to come back from his mistakes. But those two back to back drives coming out of his best half were quite disappointing. Hopefully he learns and grows from it 

Very rarely do you see any QB play a game without mistakes. This league has a lot more near-INTs than actual INTs. For discussion purposes, nitpicking has its place. The things you listed are "coachable moments." But overall, Hurts had a very good performance which is encouraging. 

10 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

But his 3rd quarter really bugged me - two drives and on both he had plays which could have / should have easily swung the game's momentum the other way. The dropped INT by Surtain was a horrific decision and terrible throw in that situation. Then following that up horrible play which did end up INT - yes his arm got hit slightly but no reason to throw it into double coverage with the safety just sitting back there. Luckily that fumble and return from Slay bailed him out big time. Between that fumble score and the run game, we closed it out so he never got the chance to come back from his mistakes. But those two back to back drives coming out of his best half were quite disappointing. Hopefully he learns and grows from it 

Blaming Hurts for the INT is just dumb. We are in max protect, 8 blockers against 5 rushers. The fact that someone came unblocked in that scheme is absolutely not on the qb. He had no choice but to throw it as far as he could and hope. Had he been able to get the throw off, it was either going to be incomplete, which is far better than taking a sack in that situation, intercepted, which in that case was about the same as a punt, or completed, which is a big play. So in the heat of the moment, he did the absolute right thing. His arm getting hit (or the ball getting tipped, it's hard to tell which it was) as he threw was something he could not have anticipated happening, and was simply bad luck.

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Agreed. Didn't feel like the offense was on the field much... I'd be interested to know how many minutes in the second half?

The fumble recovery touchdown also helped keep them off the field. They did have a drive late to make it a three score game too. The Eagles punted three times in the game. The offense wasn’t a complete mess, but they should have just run the ball when the got the ball early in the second and were pinned back. Instead they tried their trickery type plays and RPOs and the Broncos weren’t having it. 

59 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The fumble recovery touchdown also helped keep them off the field. They did have a drive late to make it a three score game too. The Eagles punted three times in the game. The offense wasn’t a complete mess, but they should have just run the ball when the got the ball early in the second and were pinned back. Instead they tried their trickery type plays and RPOs and the Broncos weren’t having it. 

They need to take the college run option play out of the playbook NFL teams are to fast for that sheet. 

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

They need to take the college run option play out of the playbook NFL teams are to fast for that sheet. 

That was part of the learning process, but I think they really want that to be their offense for some reason. They’re better running an NFL pro style offense. I agree they just need to dump that crap. Bring back a fullback too. 

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

That was part of the learning process, but I think they really want that to be their offense for some reason. They’re better running an NFL pro style offense. I agree they just need to dump that crap. Bring back a fullback too. 

That one where Hurts ran to the edge with no where to go then flipped it back to Gainwell was ugly. Those are the options that need to go. I'm ok with RPOs sprinkled in there is a place for that. 

4 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

That one where Hurts ran to the edge with no where to go then flipped it back to Gainwell was ugly. Those are the options that need to go. I'm ok with RPOs sprinkled in there is a place for that. 

There was like 4 Broncos on the play already. Another one was they tried an RPO screen, but the WR never looked for the ball so Hurts had to try and run and I think lost a yard. They have had those illegal man downfield penalties with it too. There are times when Hurts keeps it and he gets tackled in the backfield. There are plenty of ways to use Hurts as a viable runner. This RPO stuff isn’t a good way to do it. 

52 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

There was like 4 Broncos on the play already. Another one was they tried an RPO screen, but the WR never looked for the ball so Hurts had to try and run and I think lost a yard. They have had those illegal man downfield penalties with it too. There are times when Hurts keeps it and he gets tackled in the backfield. There are plenty of ways to use Hurts as a viable runner. This RPO stuff isn’t a good way to do it. 

Hurts needs a bit quicker on the decisions. Problem is when he does make a quick decision it's him just keeping it and going nowhere or when he does decide to pass he stairs down the receiver he is going to 

This is the first game where Jalen scanned the entire field and not just to his right side. I'm glad I seen that improvement at least

15 minutes ago, MagicMoment said:

This is the first game where Jalen scanned the entire field and not just to his right side. I'm glad I seen that improvement at least

This was what I've been waiting for. I don't care of he plays like Alex Smith with the ability to take off. Play within the system (much better system now) and try to see the field before making that decision to take off. This was growth game. 

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

There was like 4 Broncos on the play already. Another one was they tried an RPO screen, but the WR never looked for the ball so Hurts had to try and run and I think lost a yard. They have had those illegal man downfield penalties with it too. There are times when Hurts keeps it and he gets tackled in the backfield. There are plenty of ways to use Hurts as a viable runner. This RPO stuff isn’t a good way to do it. 

They also need to get rid of the designed rollouts too. They generally take longer to develop because you're cutting off half the field immediately and they pretty much never seem to work when we run them.

56 minutes ago, MagicMoment said:

This is the first game where Jalen scanned the entire field and not just to his right side. I'm glad I seen that improvement at least

Yup.  He was clearly going through actual progressions vs. 1st-read failed/scramble.  Unsurprisingly, he made more plays.

3 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Blaming Hurts for the INT is just dumb. We are in max protect, 8 blockers against 5 rushers. The fact that someone came unblocked in that scheme is absolutely not on the qb. He had no choice but to throw it as far as he could and hope. Had he been able to get the throw off, it was either going to be incomplete, which is far better than taking a sack in that situation, intercepted, which in that case was about the same as a punt, or completed, which is a big play. So in the heat of the moment, he did the absolute right thing. His arm getting hit (or the ball getting tipped, it's hard to tell which it was) as he threw was something he could not have anticipated happening, and was simply bad luck.

The blocking failed for sure on that - OL didn’t pick-up rushers correctly and Gainwell failed to even chip the guy that came feee. But pretending he made the right play or "that he had no choice” there is dumb. The right play is to throw it away rather than a heave into double coverage. Very low chance of completion and big play. It was 2nd down as well (still wasn’t the right play on 3rd down either but even worse situational awareness on 2nd down)

The INT isn’t the same as a punt given it went 20 yards + return brought it back to LOS. If he didn’t get hit / tipped, it maybe goes another 5 yards - the receivers simply weren’t that far down the field for it to be same as a punt. He gave the Broncos the ball back in excellent field position and luckily D bailed us out. 

The play in itself was more frustrating because he had done the same thing on the previous drive as well - throwing it into double coverage as Surtain was backpedaling.

Not to take anything away from his 1st half as I said - he was excellent. We saw big time improvement in his passing accuracy and ball placement which have been frustrating areas. But just pointing out that he is young and needs to continue to learn and grow, especially his decision making. Wasn’t quite the complete game I am still hoping to see but major major improvement. 

2 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

The right play is to throw it away rather than a heave into double coverage.

Did you notice who was covering Watkins? A linebacker. So you are saying we shouldn't throw to Quez Watkins being covered by a linebacker? Isn't that a pretty favorable matchup?

It wasn't double coverage. It was a favorable matchup for the Eagles that was derailed by a series of poor plays and bad luck, none of which falls on the qb. The decision was sound.

But keep arguing. You are doing so well so far.

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Very rarely do you see any QB play a game without mistakes. This league has a lot more near-INTs than actual INTs. For discussion purposes, nitpicking has its place. The things you listed are "coachable moments." But overall, Hurts had a very good performance which is encouraging. 

Not asking for mistake free football. Mistakes happen but those were two big ones. With a more competent offensive opponent, back to back drives with critical mistakes like that can swing the game.

I absolutely agree though, it’s a coaching moment. This was his best game by far this season. Next step I want to see this year is a few complete games from him.

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Did you notice who was covering Watkins? A linebacker. So you are saying we shouldn't throw to Quez Watkins being covered by a linebacker? Isn't that a pretty favorable matchup?

It wasn't double coverage. It was a favorable matchup for the Eagles that was derailed by a series of poor plays and bad luck, none of which falls on the qb. The decision was sound.

But keep arguing. You are doing so well so far.

Favourable matchup in a one on one yes
But Simmons was sitting there on a deep zone and had already started sliding across to cover it. The hit/tip allowed him to stop and just stand there and grab the pick. 

1 hour ago, bitbased said:

They also need to get rid of the designed rollouts too. They generally take longer to develop because you're cutting off half the field immediately and they pretty much never seem to work when we run them.

Interesting thought.  I think this is an area that could work with more time.  Currently, it seems to take a long time to get rolled out and release. Hurts seems to hang onto it a bit longer than most (unverified).  It's just not a good play for him.

10 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah I don't know why they didn't do this sooner! I mean we all knew they needed to take the pressure off Hurts with a solid consistent run game. 

Funny thing is... us fans knew it from the jump, yet Siri took 1/2 a damn season to see it. Oh well, better late than.....

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Interesting thought.  I think this is an area that could work with more time.  Currently, it seems to take a long time to get rolled out and release. Hurts seems to hang onto it a bit longer than most (unverified).  It's just not a good play for him.

I don't mind them and wouldn't mind incorporating them more in the future but I feel like we need to keep with a somewhat simplified until they get more comfortable with playcalling. It seems like we get really random/bad playcall selections in spurts when they try to deviate from what's working. 

Also Hurts is having running success when being able to find holes in the defense while standing in the pocket. When you get the whole defense flowing to one immediately you take away his running potential.

3 hours ago, MagicMoment said:

This is the first game where Jalen scanned the entire field and not just to his right side. I'm glad I seen that improvement at least

 

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

This was what I've been waiting for. I don't care of he plays like Alex Smith with the ability to take off. Play within the system (much better system now) and try to see the field before making that decision to take off. This was growth game. 

 

2 hours ago, MIRV Griffen said:

Yup.  He was clearly going through actual progressions vs. 1st-read failed/scramble.  Unsurprisingly, he made more plays.

The other encouraging thing was he was making pre-snap reads and changing the play accordingly.

Hurts was already more effective than some people were giving credit for, but for us to be a true threat going forwards with him as QB1, Sunday was exactly what we need. Play like a proper QB but with his legs and mobility as an extra threat. Rodgers, Wilson and Mahomes can all run (Wilson the best of them in his prime), but they all look to pass and buy time first. They will also beat you with their legs if nothing is on/if the field opens up while the D is in man. 

To be fair to Hurts the pass blocking has been pretty poor at times. He doesn't trust the protection because it hasn't been there. Guys like Driscoll and Dickerson are improving (and it helped not having Von Miller out there on Sunday) and Hurts was noticeably more comfortable.

Definitely a positive step forward.

4 hours ago, Talonblood said:

Funny thing is... us fans knew it from the jump, yet Siri took 1/2 a damn season to see it. Oh well, better late than.....

I think part of their plan early on from FO down was to load up Hurts and see how much he could handle and carry. Not saying it was right but I think that's one of the things they were trying to assess

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Play like a proper QB but with his legs and mobility as an extra threat. Rodgers, Wilson and Mahomes can all run (Wilson the best of them in his prime), but they all look to pass and buy time first. They will also beat you with their legs if nothing is on/if the field opens up while the D is in man. 

The other point around QBs who aren't just mobile but actually a legitimate threat running the ball is that it really does help open the running game a little more.

Hurts without a doubt has had a positive impact on the success our RBs are having. His presence alone means its something that the D needs to account for which opens up running lanes, takes a defender out, buys an extra second more. Hurts needs to improve in the passing game (repetitive accuracy, decision making and reading defences being the keys)  but those don't need that be at the same level of say a typical pocket QB because an offence designed around him can also hurt you in other ways.   

14 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

The other point around QBs who aren't just mobile but actually a legitimate threat running the ball is that it really does help open the running game a little more.

Hurts without a doubt has had a positive impact on the success our RBs are having. His presence alone means its something that the D needs to account for which opens up running lanes, takes a defender out, buys an extra second more. Hurts needs to improve in the passing game (repetitive accuracy, decision making and reading defences being the keys)  but those don't need that be at the same level of say a typical pocket QB because an offence designed around him can also hurt you in other ways.   

A valid point on Jalen’s legs and being a real threat with his running and how his running actually makes things better for the backs as a whole. I think as he progresses as a quarterback I’d like to see him continue to improve as a passer and eventually using his legs when he needs them to move the chains rather than relying on them as much as he does now, but I understand it’s going to take some time. He hasn’t even officially started a full season of games yet. 

17 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

I think part of their plan early on from FO down was to load up Hurts and see how much he could handle and carry. Not saying it was right but I think that's one of the things they were trying to assess

I think they thought they could have success doing what they were but realized much too late that weren't going to. I assume they were giving Hurts time to adapt but eventually realized they needed to change course and adapt to Hurts.