Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Wentz_Era]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You know what the bold names have in common?   Their arms.

 

You know what Hurts lacks?   

Not to mention that Randall had one year of 'elite' QB play, McNabb might have been a victim of Andy (who at this point is lucky he has his SB) or himself.  Elway was one of the best QB's to ever play the game from day 1, Young is a moot point because he sat for a while and then took over for one of the best and never skipped a beat, Allen hasn't won ish either.

[opa-opa]

I'm kinda hoping that a team would try to trade for Minshew. It doesn't seem like an impossibility with so many teams out there needing QBs.

What if a team is willing to give up a 3rd rounder, or even a 2nd, for Minshew? 

What does Howie do at that point?

If he doesn't do the trade, wouldn't it mean he doesn't really have full confidence in Hurts?

If he trades Minshew, isn't he admitting he was letting a starter-level QB sit on the bench while he tries to "develop" Hurts?

Something like that would give us much more insight into how this FO really values both QBs.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

I'm kinda hoping that a team would try to trade for Minshew. It doesn't seem like an impossibility with so many teams out there needing QBs.

What if a team is willing to give up a 3rd rounder, or even a 2nd, for Minshew? 

I have to be honest... I don't know why they wouldn't give up say a third.

Minshew is better than some of the starters in the league no question about it. He's better than Darnold or Newton. He's better than Mills. He's better than Siemian or whoever starts for the Saints. He's better than Heincke and I'd even say he's better than Jones. And then the Steelers need a QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I have to be honest... I don't know why they wouldn't give up say a third.

Minshew is better than some of the starters in the league no question about it. He's better than Darnold or Newton. He's better than Mills. He's better than Siemian or whoever starts for the Saints. He's better than Heincke and I'd even say he's better than Jones. And then the Steelers need a QB.

Are you forgetting someone?  Name rhymes with squirts.  All advanced QB metrics and analysts say you did.. 

[ManchesterEagle]

4 hours ago, opa-opa said:

I'm kinda hoping that a team would try to trade for Minshew. It doesn't seem like an impossibility with so many teams out there needing QBs.

What if a team is willing to give up a 3rd rounder, or even a 2nd, for Minshew? 

What does Howie do at that point?

If he doesn't do the trade, wouldn't it mean he doesn't really have full confidence in Hurts?

If he trades Minshew, isn't he admitting he was letting a starter-level QB sit on the bench while he tries to "develop" Hurts?

Something like that would give us much more insight into how this FO really values both QBs.

 

 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I have to be honest... I don't know why they wouldn't give up say a third.

Minshew is better than some of the starters in the league no question about it. He's better than Darnold or Newton. He's better than Mills. He's better than Siemian or whoever starts for the Saints. He's better than Heincke and I'd even say he's better than Jones. And then the Steelers need a QB.

Well - Eagles need a backup, so not trading Minshew isn’t necessarily about Hurts.

Hurts is a starter level QB. Every advanced QB measuring metric and (as far as I am aware) every prominent NFL analyst has Hurts ranked somewhere between 11 and 20. 

If the Eagles do trade Minshew for a second then it’s great work by Howie and pure stupidity from whoever does it, because they could have had him for a 6th last year.

Remember we traded AJ Feeley for a second 
 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You know what the bold names have in common?   Their arms.

 

You know what Hurts lacks?   

Do you know what else they all have in common besides Allen? They all took until they were in their effing 30's till they got a little bit better at passing from the pocket. So if you think Hurts is good now, wait 10 more years!

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

5 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Well - Eagles need a backup, so not trading Minshew isn’t necessarily about Hurts.

Hurts is a starter level QB. Every advanced QB measuring metric and (as far as I am aware) every prominent NFL analyst has Hurts ranked somewhere between 11 and 20. 

If the Eagles do trade Minshew for a second then it’s great work by Howie and pure stupidity from whoever does it, because they could have had him for a 6th last year.

Remember we traded AJ Feeley for a second 
 

I love your go to  "advanced metrics" comment.  In any given year, almost every QB that falls into the back half of the league either A) straight up stinks and/or B) are part of a team with significant dysfunction.  So what if he outranks several unproven rookies (Fields, Wilson, Jones, Lawrence), several washed up vets (Rapistberger, Ryan, Newton), and a bunch on known bad QBs (Goff, Darnold, Jones, Bridgewater, Heinicke, Mayfield, Mills, Hill) and on and on.  Outranking that group doesn't make him a quality starter (especially while racking up stats as a RB).  It just makes him one of the taller midgets in the room.  That's nothing to celebrate or to be satisfied with.  Your "advanced metrics" say he is a tolerable starter...not terrible, but not good enough.

[jsb235]

26 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Your "advanced metrics" say he is a tolerable starter...not terrible, but not good enough.

I don't think anyone things he is good enough right now. And he might never get better.

But the fact remains that there isn't a viable option to replace him. The rookie draft class looks bad. Any of the three decent vet options is going to be too expensive both in terms of cap space and draft picks.

So the smartest play is to clearly give him another year.

The dumb play is chasing something that isn't there. There isn't a qb from this draft class who can step in and be a day 1, top 10 qb. And it is likely there is only one who has the tools to become that, and he's probably the least ready to play and poses the biggest gamble. All the other qbs are flawed. They lack the arm strength, the physical build or the athleticism to be a top 10 qb, both now or anytime in their careers. That means some teams will be spending a top draft pick on what is almost certain to be a mediocre outcome, which is exactly what you say you want to avoid, i.e. "not terrible but not good enough."

You may not like that the team will be starting Hurts next year, but maybe it's time for you to accept that it is the smartest play they can make. 

 

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 minute ago, jsb235 said:

I don't think anyone things he is good enough right now. And he might never get better.

But the fact remains that there isn't a viable option to replace him. The rookie draft class looks bad. Any of the three decent vet options is going to be too expensive both in terms of cap space and draft picks.

So the smartest play is to clearly give him another year.

The dumb play is chasing something that isn't there. There isn't a qb from this draft class who can step in and be a day 1, top 10 qb. And it is likely there is only one who has the tools to become that, and he's probably the least ready to play and poses the biggest gamble. All the other qbs are flawed. They lack the arm strength, the physical build or the athleticism to be a top 10 qb, both now or anytime in their careers. That means some teams will be spending a top draft pick on what is almost certain to be a mediocre outcome, which is exactly what you say you want to avoid, i.e. "not terrible but not good enough."

You may not like that the team will be starting Hurts next year, but maybe it's time for you to accept that it is the smartest play they can make. 

LOL!  Has there ever been a QB enter the league as a "Day 1, Top 10" starter?  Your words, not mine. And its funny that you can determine NOW that the QBs in the draft will never be Top 10 talents at any point in their careers, yet you aren't sure if Hurts is one.  With your evaluation skills on build, arm strength, and athleticism, you should be able to nail our run first QB's upside, too.

I have no desire to chase any QB and have said so repeatedly  Let's give him another year, just stop with the "advanced metrics say he's a top QB" BS.  He's a limited talent that can man the position through another throw away year. Maybe, we will play a bunch of teams with losing records again to help us eek into the playoffs.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I love your go to  "advanced metrics" comment.  In any given year, almost every QB that falls into the back half of the league either A) straight up stinks and/or B) are part of a team with significant dysfunction.  So what if he outranks several unproven rookies (Fields, Wilson, Jones, Lawrence), several washed up vets (Rapistberger, Ryan, Newton), and a bunch on known bad QBs (Goff, Darnold, Jones, Bridgewater, Heinicke, Mayfield, Mills, Hill) and on and on.  Outranking that group doesn't make him a quality starter (especially while racking up stats as a RB).  It just makes him one of the taller midgets in the room.  That's nothing to celebrate or to be satisfied with.  Your "advanced metrics" say he is a tolerable starter...not terrible, but not good enough.

 

29 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I don't think anyone things he is good enough right now. And he might never get better.

But the fact remains that there isn't a viable option to replace him. The rookie draft class looks bad. Any of the three decent vet options is going to be too expensive both in terms of cap space and draft picks.

So the smartest play is to clearly give him another year.

The dumb play is chasing something that isn't there. There isn't a qb from this draft class who can step in and be a day 1, top 10 qb. And it is likely there is only one who has the tools to become that, and he's probably the least ready to play and poses the biggest gamble. All the other qbs are flawed. They lack the arm strength, the physical build or the athleticism to be a top 10 qb, both now or anytime in their careers. That means some teams will be spending a top draft pick on what is almost certain to be a mediocre outcome, which is exactly what you say you want to avoid, i.e. "not terrible but not good enough."

You may not like that the team will be starting Hurts next year, but maybe it's time for you to accept that it is the smartest play they can make. 

 

 

I go back to my "advanced metrics” and rankings, because you and your fellow Hurts haters keep selling the narrative that Hurts stinks. He really doesn’t.

Now is there a chance that he is maxed out or will regress next year? Absolutely. 
 

But your group are all desperate to replace Hurts no matter what, when the sensible play is to build the team, give him another year and stock up on some picks so we can potentially get someone in a much stronger QB draft next year.

As jsb says it’s a weak QB draft with prospects with limited upsides who will be overdrafted. Not the time to replace Hurts. Let him play - if he stinks we get a better draft pick in 2023.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

52 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I go back to my "advanced metrics” and rankings, because you and your fellow Hurts haters keep selling the narrative that Hurts stinks. He really doesn’t.

Now is there a chance that he is maxed out or will regress next year? Absolutely. 
 

But your group are all desperate to replace Hurts no matter what, when the sensible play is to build the team, give him another year and stock up on some picks so we can potentially get someone in a much stronger QB draft next year.

As jsb says it’s a weak QB draft with prospects with limited upsides who will be overdrafted. Not the time to replace Hurts. Let him play - if he stinks we get a better draft pick in 2023.

The problem with your "advanced metrics" is that they are never presented (only stated), so we have to believe that you are interpreting them fairly.  Whereas, you believe a top 15 QB is a decent one, I see that as the top of the bottom and rarely a long term solution.  

That "just wait until next year" thing is also loaded with risk.  Prove that next year is stronger with NFL talent and that we will be in position (without wasting needed resources) to get a QB and I may start to agree with you.  The only glimmer of hope that I see with keeping Hurts the starter through a more difficult schedule next year will be that we will lose more and get a higher pick.  Therein lies why I want to keep QB in a point of high discussion...I fully believe that he isn't good enough to win anything of value after years of watching him.  I'd bet you never watched a single whole game of his in those four college years, which puts you at a disadvantage with discussion on how little he has developed over time.  

I am going to ask again. In the past decade, how many quality QBs come from outside of the 1st round....let alone the 2nd where Howie overdrafted Hurts, or the 3rd or 4th where the experts projected him?  While I agree with not wasting resources to jump up in this draft,  I also know that we need to keep QB as a close need.  History says Hurts will flame out quickly and we need not skip an opportunity, even if it isn't an A1 version (franchise level).  Also remember, if we draft an equivalent QB along the way, we regain 2 years of rookie level contract. 

 

[jsb235]

33 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I'd bet you never watched a single whole game of his in those four college years, which puts you at a disadvantage with discussion on how little he has developed over time. 

Here is a pre-draft breakdown.

NFL Draft Analysis: Jalen Hurts - YouTube

Here is a breakdown from this season by the same guy.

Is Jalen Hurts Good Enough? - YouTube

I know this will be nothing more than a rorschach test for how people feel about him, but to me the progress is pretty clear from the first video to the second. And it is also clear that the analyst thinks so as well, because his comments are much different in the two videos.

[Shalodeep]

13 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Here is a pre-draft breakdown.

NFL Draft Analysis: Jalen Hurts - YouTube

Here is a breakdown from this season by the same guy.

Is Jalen Hurts Good Enough? - YouTube

I know this will be nothing more than a rorschach test for how people feel about him, but to me the progress is pretty clear from the first video to the second. And it is also clear that the analyst thinks so as well, because his comments are much different in the two videos.

Definitely watched two different videos because he points out obvious flaws that haven't gotten better lol dude doesn't have it. At best top 15-16 ish and in an era were the top 10 are all borderline HoFer talents.... You aren't going to sneak by all of them for a ring any year 

[jsb235]

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Definitely watched two different videos because he points out obvious flaws that haven't gotten better lol dude doesn't have it. At best top 15-16 ish and in an era were the top 10 are all borderline HoFers.... You aren't going to sneak by all of them for a ring any year 

You posted this five minutes after I posted the videos.

I am really doubting that you actually watched them, and simply puked out an opinion you already have. 

 

[Shalodeep]

16 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

You posted this five minutes after I posted the videos.

I am really doubting that you actually watched them, and simply puked out an opinion you already have. 

 

I've watched this video. It's been out for awhile actually. Glad you found it, sad you didn't learn anything 

[Shalodeep]

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I've watched this video. It's been out for awhile actually. 

And actually the fact that a video has to be called is he good enough should be more than enough information for you. Good enough is scraping by. It didn't ask if he was elite ...

[jsb235]

8 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I've watched this video. It's been out for awhile actually. Glad you found it, sad you didn't learn anything 

Not one video, there's actually two. The whole point was to compare them.

[jsb235]

9 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I've watched this video. It's been out for awhile actually. Glad you found it, sad you didn't learn anything 

And if you have watched the videos, what are some of the mechanics issues he mentioned in the first video, and are they as bad in the second video?

What's your analysis?

[Shalodeep]

Just now, jsb235 said:

Not one video, there's actually two.

Yes. I'm aware. Did you know some of us watch lots of player breakdowns in our free time? I happen to be one. Every time Jalen is accessed without film, people love him. When he is broken down on film, that love quickly falls to like or indifferent. 

[jsb235]

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

Yes. I'm aware. Did you know some of us watch lots of player breakdowns in our free time? I happen to be one. Every time Jalen is accessed without film, people love him. When he is broken down on film, that love quickly falls to like or indifferent. 

So answer the question on mechanics, if you are such a film nerd. He uses a few specific terms in the first video that you should be able to state right now.

[jsb235]

This is that cringy moment when someone didn't do the homework and tried to bluff their way out of it.

[Shalodeep]

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

This is that cringy moment when someone didn't do the homework and tried to bluff their way out of it.

Or working with a special needs kid who needs a little more of your time than a guy on a message board. I'll get back to you in a minute. I was answering on break so suck it trebeke

[mattmcginley7]

Eagles fans

 

Acknowledge Reagor is bad: 👍

Acknowledge JJAW is bad: 👍

Acknowledge Barnett is bad: 👍

Hate Jonathan Gannon: 👍

Say Hurts was a bad QB: you know nothing 😡, you're rooting for him to fail, you aren't a real fan

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The problem with your "advanced metrics" is that they are never presented (only stated), so we have to believe that you are interpreting them fairly.  Whereas, you believe a top 15 QB is a decent one, I see that as the top of the bottom and rarely a long term solution.  

That "just wait until next year" thing is also loaded with risk.  Prove that next year is stronger with NFL talent and that we will be in position (without wasting needed resources) to get a QB and I may start to agree with you.  The only glimmer of hope that I see with keeping Hurts the starter through a more difficult schedule next year will be that we will lose more and get a higher pick.  Therein lies why I want to keep QB in a point of high discussion...I fully believe that he isn't good enough to win anything of value after years of watching him.  I'd bet you never watched a single whole game of his in those four college years, which puts you at a disadvantage with discussion on how little he has developed over time.  

I am going to ask again. In the past decade, how many quality QBs come from outside of the 1st round....let alone the 2nd where Howie overdrafted Hurts, or the 3rd or 4th where the experts projected him?  While I agree with not wasting resources to jump up in this draft,  I also know that we need to keep QB as a close need.  History says Hurts will flame out quickly and we need not skip an opportunity, even if it isn't an A1 version (franchise level).  Also remember, if we draft an equivalent QB along the way, we regain 2 years of rookie level contract. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Here is a pre-draft breakdown.

NFL Draft Analysis: Jalen Hurts - YouTube

Here is a breakdown from this season by the same guy.

Is Jalen Hurts Good Enough? - YouTube

I know this will be nothing more than a rorschach test for how people feel about him, but to me the progress is pretty clear from the first video to the second. And it is also clear that the analyst thinks so as well, because his comments are much different in the two videos.

Yes I agree a top 15 - 20 QB, which Hurts was last year, is unlikely to be good enough unless he has a really good team around him that gets hot at the right time.  You want my analysis of Hurts, I can copy and paste from another thread. It's far from all glowing.

But read the QB free agent thread. There are comments like "anyone of them but Hurts". The free agent list is awful. None of them are potentially top 10 QBs as you set out and any half decent ones would cost a lot more than Hurts. Yet a fair majority on this board want to get rid of Hurts and sign one of them. It's blind hate. 

Quality QBs outside the first - off the top of my head - Wilson, Brady, Prescott, Garoppolo, Carr, Cousins. Not bad right?

No I didn't watch Hurts in college. But he's evidently progressed (see above videos). And I've seen him progress with my own eyes in the NFL. I don't really care what he did 4 years ago.

There will always be an opportunity to draft a QB, but why do it this year when the prospects are so lowly rated and we desperately need help with the Defense. 

[ManchesterEagle]

37 minutes ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Eagles fans

 

Acknowledge Reagor is bad: 👍

Acknowledge JJAW is bad: 👍

Acknowledge Barnett is bad: 👍

Hate Jonathan Gannon: 👍

Say Hurts was a bad QB: you know nothing 😡, you're rooting for him to fail, you aren't a real fan

Reagor - he's been a clear bust so far - but I don't agree with the hate or the booing. He at least looked like he could be a WR3 in his rookie year, now he has clearly lost all confidence. Happened to Agholor as well.

JJAW has done absolutely nothing - poor comparison. Objectively bad WR. 

Barnett isn't bad - and he was a key part of our Super Bowl team. But now he is just a solid starter who commits too many penalties. 

Gannon needs a chance with an injection of better young players. Schwartz got a raw deal as well.

Hurts - he's done a decent job, improved from last season and helped an awful team improve to the playoffs. I have no issue with people thinking he might not be the long term answer or looking to upgrade - they may be right. But I resent those who want to replace him with QBs like Mitchell Trubisky.