Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 minutes ago, Damanick10 said:

I've been in the start Jalen next season camp for so long but as time goes by I wouldn't be upset if Howie uses a first round on a QB if someone drops. Love Jalen and he is a good playmaker, but just isn't a good QB right now. If a miracle happens and he can be great at reading defenses and making great throws I'll eat all the crow. Just don't see it at all.

I do think for the most part given what Hurts has shown, I am not really sure any fan could be upset if Howie went another direction. But if he gives Hurts another year then I don't think as fans we can be too upset with that either. 

[Uscg-green]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:46 AM, Vileborg said:

Sad to see Brady retire

Why?

[Damanick10]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I do think for the most part given what Hurts has shown, I am not really sure any fan could be upset if Howie went another direction. But if he gives Hurts another year then I don't think as fans we can be too upset with that either. 

F it I'd be thrilled with Pickett then Nakobe Dean if they are there. 

[Guest]

 

[Damanick10]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

 

Thats actually pretty telling.... He knows lol

[Godfather]

4 hours ago, downundermike said:

 

Watson

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, Damanick10 said:

F it I'd be thrilled with Pickett then Nakobe Dean if they are there. 

I'm not sure I'd be thrilled with Pickett but I also couldn't kill the pick. Until we know what kind of nfl QB he's going to be we can't really say. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

12 hours ago, Damanick10 said:

F it I'd be thrilled with Pickett then Nakobe Dean if they are there. 

Several QBs in the draft will be an upgrade as a QB and each give us 2 additional years of low cap play.  IMO, Pickett, Strong, Howell, Corral, Willis, and Ridder are all upgrades as a QB.  It makes sense to make a move, while we can.  There is no guarantee of anything better next year and the team has to have confidence that they can make the small adjustments needed to improve the challenged areas in their games (over major repairs needed with Hurts).

[Random Reglar]

13 hours ago, Damanick10 said:

I've been in the start Jalen next season camp for so long but as time goes by I wouldn't be upset if Howie uses a first round on a QB if someone drops. Love Jalen and he is a good playmaker, but just isn't a good QB right now. If a miracle happens and he can be great at reading defenses and making great throws I'll eat all the crow. Just don't see it at all.

9-8 and the playoffs = a good result.  It's not like the Eagles have a great running back like Jonathan Taylor, or a great defense.

What the Eagles are doing on offense is good, right, it works.  Running QB running often, getting a lot of rushing yards,  the Eagles getting a lot of rushing yards.

I suspect that after the 2023 season,  Hurts will have had success in 2022 and 2023.  And he'll be expensive to resign.  If the Eagles draft Malik Willis, he'll be there in 2024, presumably ready to go and costing approx what Hurts costs now and not $40 Million.   I'm assuming that Willis has the combine numbers close to expected.   225 and 4.52 40, ballpark. Better than the average running back.  And Willis could be used as a running back, a versatile weapon, a QB/RB in the backfield with Hurts.  That works for me.   Hurts is the starter,  Willis is the backup who is on the field with Hurts.  And Willis adjusts to the speed of the NFL game, without being the raw starting QB. 

[Random Reglar]

28 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Several QBs in the draft will be an upgrade as a QB and each give us 2 additional years of low cap play.  IMO, Pickett, Strong, Howell, Corral, Willis, and Ridder are all upgrades as a QB.  It makes sense to make a move, while we can.  There is no guarantee of anything better next year and the team has to have confidence that they can make the small adjustments needed to improve the challenged areas in their games (over major repairs needed with Hurts).

Most of those QBs will not be better than Hurts.   They won't be an upgrade.  They will be a downgrade, and the Eagles would be worse.   The bottom half of the NFL is full of recent first round QBs, and other first round QBs aren't even playing.   I'll take Hurts over Haskins or Rosen and a lot more. 

Willis is similar to Hurts,  the system built for Hurts would work for Willis.  Willis can do what Hurts does, it's not clear who would be better,  but they both can do the running.  Most of those other guys can't do the running, at least not as well.  A good number of those QB had decent rushing yards, but I'd want to see the combine numbers. 

[Random Reglar]

14 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I do think for the most part given what Hurts has shown, I am not really sure any fan could be upset if Howie went another direction. But if he gives Hurts another year then I don't think as fans we can be too upset with that either. 

I would be upset if Howie went in another direction.

5 more wins.  Led the league in QB rushing yards.  Playoffs. 

Stay the course.  Would be upset if they don't stay the course.

Adding Malik Willis as an expensive backup is staying the course. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Most of those QBs will not be better than Hurts.   They won't be an upgrade.  They will be a downgrade, and the Eagles would be worse.   The bottom half of the NFL is full of recent first round QBs, and other first round QBs aren't even playing.   I'll take Hurts over Haskins or Rosen and a lot more. 

Willis is similar to Hurts,  the system built for Hurts would work for Willis.  Willis can do what Hurts does, it's not clear who would be better,  but they both can do the running.  Most of those other guys can't do the running, at least not as well.  A good number of those QB had decent rushing yards, but I'd want to see the combine numbers. 

If I were you, I'd go back to bed and wake up with a new perspective. 

Any QB that can read a defense, drop back, stay in the pocket, make progressions, and throw the ball with reasonable accuracy is an upgrade. All of those guys can do that regularly.  The biggest question mark is WIllis and that is because of the competition he has played, not his raw talents.  You act like Hurts brings something unparalleled to the table, which is just ridiculous.  Hurts is ONLY starting out of necessity and would be part of the early round QB wasteland on any other team.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

4 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

I would be upset if Howie went in another direction.

5 more wins.  Led the league in QB rushing yards.  Playoffs. 

Stay the course.  Would be upset if they don't stay the course.

Adding Malik Willis as an expensive backup is staying the course. 

Do you think WIllis benefits from backing up a worse QB?   Weird perspective for sure.  If they draft Willis (or any other QB), he will take Hurts' spot is short order.  

[Damanick10]

3 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

9-8 and the playoffs = a good result.  It's not like the Eagles have a great running back like Jonathan Taylor, or a great defense.

What the Eagles are doing on offense is good, right, it works.  Running QB running often, getting a lot of rushing yards,  the Eagles getting a lot of rushing yards.

I suspect that after the 2023 season,  Hurts will have had success in 2022 and 2023.  And he'll be expensive to resign.  If the Eagles draft Malik Willis, he'll be there in 2024, presumably ready to go and costing approx what Hurts costs now and not $40 Million.   I'm assuming that Willis has the combine numbers close to expected.   225 and 4.52 40, ballpark. Better than the average running back.  And Willis could be used as a running back, a versatile weapon, a QB/RB in the backfield with Hurts.  That works for me.   Hurts is the starter,  Willis is the backup who is on the field with Hurts.  And Willis adjusts to the speed of the NFL game, without being the raw starting QB. 

Dude we were not a good team. We lucked out against a bunch of crap backup QBs and scraped by some easy wins. Whenever we played a decent team we got beat bad. Jalen's running is cute but its a gimmick and not sustainable at all. Once we play real teams we need a real QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 hour ago, Damanick10 said:

Dude we were not a good team. We lucked out against a bunch of crap backup QBs and scraped by some easy wins. Whenever we played a decent team we got beat bad. Jalen's running is cute but its a gimmick and not sustainable at all. Once we play real teams we need a real QB.

We got away with that gimmick in a throwaway season.  It would be nice to not have too many of those.  Time for a real QB.

[Mike030270]

Got the notification about the ankle surgery. Came looking in here for the excuses lol

[ManchesterEagle]

4 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

If I were you, I'd go back to bed and wake up with a new perspective. 

Any QB that can read a defense, drop back, stay in the pocket, make progressions, and throw the ball with reasonable accuracy is an upgrade. All of those guys can do that regularly.  The biggest question mark is WIllis and that is because of the competition he has played, not his raw talents.  You act like Hurts brings something unparalleled to the table, which is just ridiculous.  Hurts is ONLY starting out of necessity and would be part of the early round QB wasteland on any other team.

 

6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Most of those QBs will not be better than Hurts.   They won't be an upgrade.  They will be a downgrade, and the Eagles would be worse.   The bottom half of the NFL is full of recent first round QBs, and other first round QBs aren't even playing.   I'll take Hurts over Haskins or Rosen and a lot more. 

Willis is similar to Hurts,  the system built for Hurts would work for Willis.  Willis can do what Hurts does, it's not clear who would be better,  but they both can do the running.  Most of those other guys can't do the running, at least not as well.  A good number of those QB had decent rushing yards, but I'd want to see the combine numbers. 

If you don’t think Hurts can be a long term QB, fair enough, I have doubts myself.

But pretty much every advanced QB measuring metric had Hurts as a top 20 QB last year. Most end of season rankings by analysts have him around 15-17.

So no - the Quarterbacks in this draft will not definitely be an upgrade on Hurts. In fact they will probably be worse, at least in the short term. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

43 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

If you don’t think Hurts can be a long term QB, fair enough, I have doubts myself.

But pretty much every advanced QB measuring metric had Hurts as a top 20 QB last year. Most end of season rankings by analysts have him around 15-17.

So no - the Quarterbacks in this draft will not definitely be an upgrade on Hurts. In fact they will probably be worse, at least in the short term. 

Every one of the top QBs has a higher ceiling than Hurts.  You are being disingenuous, if you ignore that the majority of his metric success was running around like a RB and racking up cheap yards in garbage time.  All of this was while losing to EVERY quality team and beating ONLY the bad ones. 

I'll agree with you that drafting one won't be instant, but I don't draft a QB expecting to to be INSTANT.  It takes time to get to their ceiling which is much higher than Jalen Hurts.   They may all turn out to be busts, but he has a greater chance of that as an overdrafted 2nd rounder.

Hurts is only playing out of necessity and the fact that these two seasons were already marked as "throw away."  If this was a team in contention, he'd be holding a clipboard.

You don't need to further try to school me with your concepts. I get your concept and you get mine. 

[ManchesterEagle]

25 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Every one of the top QBs has a higher ceiling than Hurts.  You are being disingenuous, if you ignore that the majority of his metric success was running around like a RB and racking up cheap yards in garbage time.  All of this was while losing to EVERY quality team and beating ONLY the bad ones. 

I'll agree with you that drafting one won't be instant, but I don't draft a QB expecting to to be INSTANT.  It takes time to get to their ceiling which is much higher than Jalen Hurts.   They may all turn out to be busts, but he has a greater chance of that as an overdrafted 2nd rounder.

Hurts is only playing out of necessity and the fact that these two seasons were already marked as "throw away."  If this was a team in contention, he'd be holding a clipboard.

You don't need to further try to school me with your concepts. I get your concept and you get mine. 

Hurts had a small number of garbage time stats. It’s rubbish to say that makes up the majority of his metrics and you know it.

The Eagles couldn’t beat good teams. And yes Hurts was part of that, but it wasn’t all on him. In fact his QBR was very similar against both "good” and "bad” teams.

Most first round quarterbacks don’t make it to the level that Hurts already is. Go back and look at the last few drafts. Hurts is already not a bust as he has made it to solid NFL starter. So no - he is not a worse QB than Willis. 
 

Now your points about limited upside and the long term viability of Hurts are all valid. But he can still get better and his running ability and elusiveness makes him difficult to defend.

We may well need to upgrade, but a lot of the top QBs in this draft are being given the upsides of Derek Carr and Matt Hasselbeck. And that’s if everything goes well.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Hurts had a small number of garbage time stats. It’s rubbish to say that makes up the majority of his metrics and you know it.

[Han Solo]

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Got the notification about the ankle surgery. Came looking in here for the excuses lol

Does this make him injury prone?

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

If any poster is being honest, they seriously don't need to even see that statistic to know when he racked up his yards.  The team steered the offense away from his throwing arm in a passing league.  That should tell us all that we need to know.  Unless Howie sees next year as another throwaway season, he needs to locate a QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

35 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Hurts had a small number of garbage time stats. It’s rubbish to say that makes up the majority of his metrics and you know it.

The Eagles couldn’t beat good teams. And yes Hurts was part of that, but it wasn’t all on him. In fact his QBR was very similar against both "good” and "bad” teams.

Most first round quarterbacks don’t make it to the level that Hurts already is. Go back and look at the last few drafts. Hurts is already not a bust as he has made it to solid NFL starter. So no - he is not a worse QB than Willis. 
 

Now your points about limited upside and the long term viability of Hurts are all valid. But he can still get better and his running ability and elusiveness makes him difficult to defend.

We may well need to upgrade, but a lot of the top QBs in this draft are being given the upsides of Derek Carr and Matt Hasselbeck. And that’s if everything goes well.

I don't need to go back and look at the past few drafts, I posted the last 10 years information a week or so ago. You should go look up the success of 2nd round QBs and compare....and remember that only one team (with a GM that likes to pretend he is smarter than everyone else) overdrafted Hurts.  So while you are at it, head to the 3rd round and see how successful those QBs turn out.  The bottom line is that there are very few SUPERSTARS taken in the 1st and even LESS deeper in the draft.  We don't need a superstar.  We need a high quality starting QB with a higher ceiling and those guys come out of the 1st round.

BTW, I'll take a Derek Carr or Matt Hasslebeck every day of the week over our weak version of Tyrod Taylor (Hurts' typical  ceiling comparison).  At least, they know how to read a defense and play the position.  

[Mike030270]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Hurts had a small number of garbage time stats. It’s rubbish to say that makes up the majority of his metrics and you know it.

The Eagles couldn’t beat good teams. And yes Hurts was part of that, but it wasn’t all on him. In fact his QBR was very similar against both "good” and "bad” teams.

Most first round quarterbacks don’t make it to the level that Hurts already is. Go back and look at the last few drafts. Hurts is already not a bust as he has made it to solid NFL starter. So no - he is not a worse QB than Willis. 
 

Now your points about limited upside and the long term viability of Hurts are all valid. But he can still get better and his running ability and elusiveness makes him difficult to defend.

We may well need to upgrade, but a lot of the top QBs in this draft are being given the upsides of Derek Carr and Matt Hasselbeck. And that’s if everything goes well.

He hasn't

[ManchesterEagle]

2 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't need to go back and look at the past few drafts, I posted the last 10 years information a week or so ago. You should go look up the success of 2nd round QBs and compare....and remember that only one team (with a GM that likes to pretend he is smarter than everyone else) overdrafted Hurts.  So while you are at it, head to the 3rd round and see how successful those QBs turn out.  The bottom line is that there are very few SUPERSTARS taken in the 1st and even LESS deeper in the draft.  We don't need a superstar.  We need a high quality starting QB with a higher ceiling and those guys come out of the 1st round.

BTW, I'll take a Derek Carr or Matt Hasslebeck every day of the week over our weak version of Tyrod Taylor (Hurts' typical  ceiling comparison).  At least, they know how to read a defense and play the position.  

 

31 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

He hasn't

Hurts had a solid year. The Hurts Haters on this board will deny it, but pretty much every advanced quarterback metric had him as a solid starter.

Read this. 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2022/1/27/22901120/eagles-all-22-film-review-jalen-hurts-deep-dive-analysis-quarterback-qb-starter-franchise-highlights

It's an in depth breakdown of Hurts and his strengths and weaknesses. From a guy who is not a Hurts fan. It's balanced and fair.

Overall

Hurts clearly had a pretty good year. I had a look at some QB rankings to see where others ranked him as I obviously can’t watch every QB in detail and everyone had him around the 12-18 range. Gregg Rosenthal had him at 15 and I trust his opinion a lot. PFF had him 11th. ESPN had him 16th. Pro Football Network had him 16th. It’s interesting comparing him to Jimmy Garappolo who was always just slightly behind Hurts in the rankings (except for one).

 

He is already at Tyrod Taylor level. If you want to believe that's his ceiling as well, fair enough. But it may be higher. We shouldn't be shooting in a weak draft for guys who might turn into Carr or Hasselbeck if we are lucky. We should be building the team and trying to get an extra first or second for next year.