4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

His team's trajectory sure changed after they gave up on him. Clearly the replacements made all the difference in the world. 

Good isn't good enough is the lesson, but will give credit where credit is due. ... Nice come back 

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

His team's trajectory sure changed after they gave up on him. Clearly the replacements made all the difference in the world. 

But if you know he can't get you a championship, then why pay him to win 8-10 games a year...afraid to take a step back in fear of moving forward?

12 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Good isn't good enough is the lesson, but will give credit where credit is due. ... Nice come back 

 

9 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

But if you know he can't get you a championship, then why pay him to win 8-10 games a year...afraid to take a step back in fear of moving forward?

There's only going to be one "best QB in the NFL." What's the point of having a QB that isn't that guy? My guess --- it's a team sport. That's why we won it all in 2017 without the NFL's best QB. That's why Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Eli Manning all have rings. 

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

There's only going to be one "best QB in the NFL." What's the point of having a QB that isn't that guy? My guess --- it's a team sport. That's why we won it all in 2017 without the NFL's best QB. That's why Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Eli Manning all have rings. 

Didn't know you guys were aiming that low for QB. Makes all the sense now. Now how often is it the great ones that win it? Or are we playing by the little Giants rules lol

 The Bears have a Lovie Smith problem, they have had one season above 500 since he left.  

35 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Didn't know you guys were aiming that low for QB. Makes all the sense now. Now how often is it the great ones that win it? Or are we playing by the little Giants rules lol

 

36 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Didn't know you guys were aiming that low for QB. Makes all the sense now. Now how often is it the great ones that win it? Or are we playing by the little Giants rules lol

Nobody "aims low." I just don't dismiss a player simply because he hasn't become the best player at his position. I also don't believe Carson Strong will surpass Aaron Rodgers, just because Hurts hasn't been able to in his 2 NFL seasons. 

40 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Didn't know you guys were aiming that low for QB. Makes all the sense now. Now how often is it the great ones that win it? Or are we playing by the little Giants rules lol

All.those QBs have something in common... And not anywhere close to being in common with Hurts. 

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

 

Nobody "aims low." I just don't dismiss a player simply because he hasn't become the best player at his position. I also don't believe Carson Strong will surpass Aaron Rodgers, just because Hurts hasn't been able to in his 2 NFL seasons. 

I don't think Strong will pass Rodgers either lol I compared him to a Flacco/Foles type.  Hurts will have his year this year and I expect some growth because when it comes to work ethic, he may be elite. I can't get over him dismissing working on anything. It was actually disappointing because it was the first thing of him being on tv that didn't make me dislike him in awhile. He now has Dak treatment. Here is the world, make it rotate. 

3 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I don't think Strong will pass Rodgers either lol I compared him to a Flacco/Foles type.  Hurts will have his year this year and I expect some growth because when it comes to work ethic, he may be elite. I can't get over him dismissing working on anything. It was actually disappointing because it was the first thing of him being on tv that didn't make me dislike him in awhile. He now has Dak treatment. Here is the world, make it rotate. 

Love it.

I see some Foles / Flacco in Carson Strong.

S******s - " He will never be Tom Brady "

13 hours ago, brkmsn said:

 

Nobody "aims low." I just don't dismiss a player simply because he hasn't become the best player at his position. I also don't believe Carson Strong will surpass Aaron Rodgers, just because Hurts hasn't been able to in his 2 NFL seasons. 

What about when that player still hasn’t become an average passer at his position?

3 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

 

1) Focus intently on every negative Hurts stat. Ignore every stat or ranking which suggests he might be doing okay.

He was ranked throughout the mid 20s throughout his entire stat sheet that didn't involve his legs. That's not focusing on his negative, it's stating the obvious

Lol - what about turnovers? He's a dual threat QB, so you have to take into account what he brings with his legs.

2) Post a "Is it time to bench Hurts” poll after any bad game. 

considering he had more lackluster games than impressive ones... people are going to question his ability to be a franchise guy

No issue with questioning his ability to be the franchise guy. But demanding he be benched for QBs who are definitely not going to be is silly.

3) Proclaim Minshew as a much better option after he beats the worst defense in the league who were preparing for Hurts.

This game occured right after Hurts lost to a team equally as bad and a team with LESS hope than the Jets franchise has this season.

Lol - this is a prime example of cherry picking. Taking Hurts's worst regular season game in isolation and thinking it's a valid comparison.

4) Post "Hurts sucks” every so often, knowing they will get likes from the haters crew.

film says it in a language that others can't understand at times so we feel like we are doing the service of interpretation

I think people can make their minds up just fine.

5) Ignore that Devonta Smith broke the Eagles receiving record for a rookie. Claim Smith would have had 1600 yards and 10 TDs if we had Tannehill.

took an extra game to get there while being the focal point of the passing offense. Chances are with a better QB with the same focus, he definitely gets to 1200. 

Really? Because with Minshew in his one competitive game he got 20 yards.

6) Focus on Eagles having good O-Line/Smith. Ignore that two of his primary targets are a 6th round pick and Jalen Reagor.
 

We could never ignore them on the field as much as hurts does

Okay so the issue is that Reagor is not getting enough targets 😂

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

1) Focus intently on every negative Hurts stat. Ignore every stat or ranking which suggests he might be doing okay.

He was ranked throughout the mid 20s throughout his entire stat sheet that didn't involve his legs. That's not focusing on his negative, it's stating the obvious

Lol - what about turnovers? He's a dual threat QB, so you have to take into account what he brings with his legs.

2) Post a "Is it time to bench Hurts” poll after any bad game. 

considering he had more lackluster games than impressive ones... people are going to question his ability to be a franchise guy

No issue with questioning his ability to be the franchise guy. But demanding he be benched for QBs who are definitely not going to be is silly.

3) Proclaim Minshew as a much better option after he beats the worst defense in the league who were preparing for Hurts.

This game occured right after Hurts lost to a team equally as bad and a team with LESS hope than the Jets franchise has this season.

Lol - this is a prime example of cherry picking. Taking Hurts's worst regular season game in isolation and thinking it's a valid comparison.

4) Post "Hurts sucks” every so often, knowing they will get likes from the haters crew.

film says it in a language that others can't understand at times so we feel like we are doing the service of interpretation

I think people can make their minds up just fine.

5) Ignore that Devonta Smith broke the Eagles receiving record for a rookie. Claim Smith would have had 1600 yards and 10 TDs if we had Tannehill.

took an extra game to get there while being the focal point of the passing offense. Chances are with a better QB with the same focus, he definitely gets to 1200. 

Really? Because with Minshew in his one competitive game he got 20 yards.

6) Focus on Eagles having good O-Line/Smith. Ignore that two of his primary targets are a 6th round pick and Jalen Reagor.
 

We could never ignore them on the field as much as hurts does

Okay so the issue is that Reagor is not getting enough targets 😂

Definitely the issue with reagor is reagor lol I'm saying if someone is open, no matter who..let it rip. But I've said it before, his hesitation and second guessing is his overall problem 

40 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Definitely the issue with reagor is reagor lol I'm saying if someone is open, no matter who..let it rip. But I've said it before, his hesitation and second guessing is his overall problem 

No arguments from me on that. He needs to improve. AJ Brown should help, as should another year in the same offense.

If he doesn’t improve sufficiently we move on in 2023. Hopefully should be a good QB year.

On 5/14/2022 at 4:44 PM, brkmsn said:

Nobody "aims low." I just don't dismiss a player simply because he hasn't become the best player at his position. I also don't believe Carson Strong will surpass Aaron Rodgers, just because Hurts hasn't been able to in his 2 NFL seasons. 

The issue isn't Hurts isn't the best QB in the NFL, the trouble is that he's not adequate as a passer against relevant teams.  He's one dimensional against good teams, and that dimension is running... which they can easily shut down.

The blueprint to shut him down is pretty simple... play close to the LOS, overload his right side and force him to throw left and deep.  The question is, how many defenses are willing to play that style versus their 'normal' style against him, and what can he do to overcome his deficiencies and force them to do something else.

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

What about when that player still hasn’t become an average passer at his position?

I'm less concerned about an improving 23 year old than a regressing 30+ year old. I would also disagree with the notion he isn't an "average" passer. You can cherry pick certain stats that rank him below average, but when you factor in all the stats, he was statistically average.

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm less concerned about an improving 23 year old than a regressing 30+ year old. I would also disagree with the notion he isn't an "average" passer. You can cherry pick certain stats that rank him below average, but when you factor in all the stats, he was statistically average.

Average is 16-17th...he wasn't ranked that high in yards, completion percentage, touchdowns ... good runner though...

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The issue isn't Hurts isn't the best QB in the NFL, the trouble is that he's not adequate as a passer against relevant teams.  He's one dimensional against good teams, and that dimension is running... which they can easily crap down.

The blueprint to shut him down is pretty simple... play close to the LOS, overload his right side and force him to throw left and deep.  The question is, how many defenses are willing to play that style versus their 'normal' style against him, and what can he do to overcome his deficiencies and force them to do something else.

A good defense can usually figure out a way to defend against a team's most important offensive weapon. Since our offense last year revolved around Hurt's strength as a runner, that's what good defenses focused on. It's reasonable to expect an offense with as many young skill players as the Eagles have to have to grow and evolve moving forward. For this to happen, Hurts absolutely needs to take that next step as a passer. We need everybody to be involved. It should also be helpful if teams respected each receiver we have out there (which should happen this year with the addition of Brown). Having JJAW out there to just set picks and make blocks made things easier for defenses. 

I'm just not overly concerned about a young, mobile QB that used his running as a crutch too often. From what I've seen in other mobile QBs in their careers, this is to be expected. But to really become better passers, they have to rely less and less on that crutch moving forward. With McNabb, for example, you saw him begin to keep looking downfield while he was behind the LOS. This makes it harder for the defender to commit to tackling the QB or covering a receiver working open on a scramble drill. The concept is to extend passing plays, not turn them all into runs. I'm looking forward to seeing if Hurts improves in this area this year. 

14 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Average is 16-17th...he wasn't ranked that high in yards, completion percentage, touchdowns ... good runner though...

He was 13th (among starters) in average yards per pass. Of course he passed for less yards since he passed less. I acknowledge that other things like TD% place him in the low 20s (rank), again that is a product of the system that committed to running. He was the 8th ranked QB in the red zone. It doesn't bother me if we run instead of pass for TDs. We were 12th in offensive points per game. 

20 hours ago, brkmsn said:

 

There's only going to be one "best QB in the NFL." What's the point of having a QB that isn't that guy? My guess --- it's a team sport. That's why we won it all in 2017 without the NFL's best QB. That's why Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Eli Manning all have rings. 

Doug Williams threw the prettiest ball I've ever seen, always a tight spiral with the perfect velocity and trajectory. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I'm less concerned about an improving 23 year old than a regressing 30+ year old. I would also disagree with the notion he isn't an "average" passer. You can cherry pick certain stats that rank him below average, but when you factor in all the stats, he was statistically average.

Respectfully, if you think Hurts is an average passer amongst the real starters, our perspectives on what the qb position entails are separated by such a vast chasm that there is no point in discussing it.  Maybe it’s me that’s off.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

A good defense can usually figure out a way to defend against a team's most important offensive weapon. Since our offense last year revolved around Hurt's strength as a runner, that's what good defenses focused on. It's reasonable to expect an offense with as many young skill players as the Eagles have to have to grow and evolve moving forward. For this to happen, Hurts absolutely needs to take that next step as a passer. We need everybody to be involved. It should also be helpful if teams respected each receiver we have out there (which should happen this year with the addition of Brown). Having JJAW out there to just set picks and make blocks made things easier for defenses. 

I'm just not overly concerned about a young, mobile QB that used his running as a crutch too often. From what I've seen in other mobile QBs in their careers, this is to be expected. But to really become better passers, they have to rely less and less on that crutch moving forward. With McNabb, for example, you saw him begin to keep looking downfield while he was behind the LOS. This makes it harder for the defender to commit to tackling the QB or covering a receiver working open on a scramble drill. The concept is to extend passing plays, not turn them all into runs. I'm looking forward to seeing if Hurts improves in this area this year. 

The bold is the issue.  The coaches didn't try to fix his passing, they leaned in and relied on his running.  That's always a short-term solution and in so doing, undermined his development as a passer.  McNabb was always working to not be seen as a runner.  Young was rebuilt to be a passer first.  But, when you tailor the NFL offense to cater to the running QB, you only short circuit any growth as a passer.  

22 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Mitch last year as a starter he had 16tds to 8 ints in 9 games (6-3 record) and was given up on. Only losing season was rookie year as well. His career is interesting because it isn't riddled in failure, just in not being good enough *looks at hurts fans*

 

Mitch Trubisky stopped improving after his second season.  He had hit his ceiling.   

13 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Mitch Trubisky stopped improving after his second season.  He had hit his ceiling.   

Exactly - Trubisky had three full years as a starter. If Hurts doesn't show some significant improvements next year then the Eagles will use their two first rounders to get a QB one way or the other.

46 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Mitch Trubisky stopped improving after his second season.  He had hit his ceiling.   

 

1.71, 1.13, 1.77  2nd 3rd 4th years touchdowns per game. Last year as a starter was his highest touchdowns per game so that didn't work....won 3 games over the .500 Mark so that doesn't work (actually has a decent w/l record as a starter 29-21) 67% completion percentage his last starting year, his highest in career so that argument doesn't work..... Did you just throw a sentence up there and hope it worked? 

 

 

39 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Exactly - Trubisky had three full years as a starter. If Hurts doesn't show some significant improvements next year then the Eagles will use their two first rounders to get a QB one way or the other.

Agreeing with a bad argument and then making a much better one is rare....but good job. My question is what is the improvement that justifies him getting a 30+ mill contract that he most likely will be pushing for next offseason