Schwartz 2021

[Infam]

7 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

All true.  Although, I'm not sure about the top 10 part of Schwartz.  The lack of ability to develop any of the early round draft choices at CB is an issue, but then again, maybe that's on Howie for selecting them.  

I think Barnett is going places. Takes him a while, but that's more to injury than to Schwarz. Sidney Jones just was a total bust.. 

[ManchesterEagle]

8 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

All true.  Although, I'm not sure about the top 10 part of Schwartz.  The lack of ability to develop any of the early round draft choices at CB is an issue, but then again, maybe that's on Howie for selecting them.  

I think that’s overstated. Early round corners - we took Jones in the second. Douglas was a compensatory pick in the 3rd. Jones was a gamble and he couldn’t stay healthy.

Douglas is okay, but was a bad pick for Schwartz’s scheme. His performance at Carolina has been overplayed (ranks at below replacement level on pff at the moment).

Fact is over the past 5 years we have used 1 first round pick on the D, 1 second round pick and no actual 3rd round picks. That’s terrible.

People were saying on this board that Wentz should have got MVP for playing pretty well with practice squad players last year. Schwartz has practice squad players pretty much everywhere apart from the D-Line. And yet most people (not you) think that this bunch of scrubs will suddenly turn into the 85 Bears or 1990 Eagles when he leaves.

[Bwestbrook36]

On 12/14/2020 at 10:58 AM, 20dawk4life said:

That is because of his own philosophy. It’s not like Howie said F it all I’m giving you is DTs. Look at Schwartz career, he bases his defense off of the DTs and speedier DEs. LBs are an after thought, which makes him a perfect pair for the Eagles. He also likes safeties. 
 

A Schwartz position ranking by favorites:

DT

DE

S

CB

Back Up players at those positions

Waterboy

LB

Exactly all his defenses have had the same exact build. This is his defense and the guys he wants. Jalen Mills has been starting for him for how many years now? Do any of you really think Howie is forcing Mills on Schwartz? I highly doubt it. 

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I think that’s overstated. Early round corners - we took Jones in the second. Douglas was a compensatory pick in the 3rd. Jones was a gamble and he couldn’t stay healthy.

Douglas is okay, but was a bad pick for Schwartz’s scheme. His performance at Carolina has been overplayed (ranks at below replacement level on pff at the moment).

Fact is over the past 5 years we have used 1 first round pick on the D, 1 second round pick and no actual 3rd round picks. That’s terrible.

People were saying on this board that Wentz should have got MVP for playing pretty well with practice squad players last year. Schwartz has practice squad players pretty much everywhere apart from the D-Line. And yet most people (not you) think that this bunch of scrubs will suddenly turn into the 85 Bears or 1990 Eagles when he leaves.

You can say that they only drafted certain players, but they have put a lot of draft resources and money into the defense under Schwartz... lots of money at DL.  Lots of money at S.  Less at CB, but lots of draft resources - 2nd on Jones, 3rd on Darby, 3rd on Douglas, 3rd & 5th on Slay (plus money).   It hasn't been ignored.

[ManchesterEagle]

36 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You can say that they only drafted certain players, but they have put a lot of draft resources and money into the defense under Schwartz... lots of money at DL.  Lots of money at S.  Less at CB, but lots of draft resources - 2nd on Jones, 3rd on Darby, 3rd on Douglas, 3rd & 5th on Slay (plus money).   It hasn't been ignored.

I disagree. Top 5 cap hits - 4 are on offense. 
 

 

Okay they’ve used a couple of thirds on trade, but that still doesn’t change the fact in the past 5 years they have used 1 first rounder and 1 second rounder on the D. That’s it. It’s not enough. This D needs some young talent.

[Iggles_Phan]

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I disagree. Top 5 cap hits - 4 are on offense. 
 

 

Okay they’ve used a couple of thirds on trade, but that still doesn’t change the fact in the past 5 years they have used 1 first rounder and 1 second rounder on the D. That’s it. It’s not enough. This D needs some young talent. 

Top 15... 

4 out of top 5 are offense.
Next 6 are all defense

So, top 7 out of 11 are defense.

8 out of 15 are defense.  Just a matter of where you want to draw the line.

[ManchesterEagle]

11 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Top 15... 

4 out of top 5 are offense.
Next 6 are all defense

So, top 7 out of 11 are defense.

8 out of 15 are defense.  Just a matter of where you want to draw the line.

That only includes the active roster.

Lane Johnson and Desean Jackson are 5th and 6th in cap hit, so they make it 6 out of the first 7 on offense. Peters is 4.6 million and Dillard also makes the top 15.

A large proportion of the cap is devoted to the offense. As have most of the draft picks.

Edit - also forgot to add Brandon Brooks - do that’s 7 of the first 8.

[Dwide Schrude]

On 12/14/2020 at 4:03 PM, beto_eagles said:

I think he's a very good DC in terms of scheme and preparation, but he's a horrible talent evaluator.

It feels like when one player falls out of favor with him,  it doesn't matter how good or bad he is, he won't see the field much in the future. It happened with Jones, Douglas, Fort, Parks and several others that just didn't receive a fair chance. 

So, I guess I'm curious to see if there's someone better available, but it's something that I think we could regret. 

Disagree about fair chance with Jones & Douglas. They definitely had opportunities & had shining moments, but got burnt or beat a lot. I will say one thing though, Chris Long did mention on his podcast that Jones would pull off highlight reel plays in practice often. Why that never translated in live games I don’t know. 
The releasing of Fort & Parks does puzzle me. Fort might of just not been a right fit, & Parks was yapping on twitter a day ago so he might of been a locker room problem. 

I’m also torn. Schwartz’s defenses have bailed Eagles out or kept them afloat in many games. I don’t get too mad at Howie going offense in 1st round in the last few drafts, surrounding Wentz with talent was more important. But that’s a factor to consider with keeping/moving on with Schwartz. There was only one game (Rams) this year I really thought Schwartz’s defense was the main issue. Others I blamed on offense not being able to sustain drives, defensive breakdowns were inevitable. Secondary in Schwartz’s scheme has always been a problem, but when’s last time Eagles have even had a respectable secondary? The Dawkin days? McLeod & Jenkins were a great safety duo but CB still struggled. Schwartz at least gives this defense a decent floor.  I’m worried Eagles won’t find a DC capable enough to improve this defense with the lack of young talent. 

[ManchesterEagle]

52 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

Disagree about fair chance with Jones & Douglas. They definitely had opportunities & had shining moments, but got burnt or beat a lot. I will say one thing though, Chris Long did mention on his podcast that Jones would pull off highlight reel plays in practice often. Why that never translated in live games I don’t know. 
The releasing of Fort & Parks does puzzle me. Fort might of just not been a right fit, & Parks was yapping on twitter a day ago so he might of been a locker room problem. 

I’m also torn. Schwartz’s defenses have bailed Eagles out or kept them afloat in many games. I don’t get too mad at Howie going offense in 1st round in the last few drafts, surrounding Wentz with talent was more important. But that’s a factor to consider with keeping/moving on with Schwartz. There was only one game (Rams) this year I really thought Schwartz’s defense was the main issue. Others I blamed on offense not being able to sustain drives, defensive breakdowns were inevitable. Secondary in Schwartz’s scheme has always been a problem, but when’s last time Eagles have even had a respectable secondary? The Dawkin days? McLeod & Jenkins were a great safety duo but CB still struggled. Schwartz at least gives this defense a decent floor.  I’m worried Eagles won’t find a DC capable enough to improve this defense with the lack of young talent. 

I think Fort was overplayed a bit by some people. He’s a 30 year old journeymen who has been cut by 7 different teams, including the Seahawks, Pats and Steelers. He’s found a fit in Baltimore, but people over reacted due to a couple of big plays.

Agree with everything else you say. I’m just not sure what people are expecting with this talent.

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

That only includes the active roster.

Lane Johnson and Desean Jackson are 5th and 6th in cap hit, so they make it 6 out of the first 7 on offense. Peters is 4.6 million and Dillard also makes the top 15.

A large proportion of the cap is devoted to the offense. As have most of the draft picks.

Edit - also forgot to add Brandon Brooks - do that’s 7 of the first 8.

Sure.  This is an offense driven league... but that's everywhere in the league.  Offensive players make more money than defense.   Nonetheless, Schwartz could have been better, and certainly could have a system more about creating turnovers.  But this team just can't seem to do that anymore.  Of course, they could be a lot worse, too.  Either way, I think that there will be a new DC in 2021, because I don't think he wants to come back whether they want him or not.

 

BTW... I want Howie gone from this team most of all, but he did bring in talent on defense, and by reports, Schwartz has a fairly significant say in the talent they target and bring in.  

[EaglesfanfromND]

He hasn't had the best talent in the world but he also doesn't seem to use what talent he has to it's abilities either. His scheme drives me nuts at times and his bend but don't break defensive philosophy just costs way too much field position. I prefer a more aggressive defense.

[ManchesterEagle]

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure.  This is an offense driven league... but that's everywhere in the league.  Offensive players make more money than defense.   Nonetheless, Schwartz could have been better, and certainly could have a system more about creating turnovers.  But this team just can't seem to do that anymore.  Of course, they could be a lot worse, too.  Either way, I think that there will be a new DC in 2021, because I don't think he wants to come back whether they want him or not.

 

BTW... I want Howie gone from this team most of all, but he did bring in talent on defense, and by reports, Schwartz has a fairly significant say in the talent they target and bring in.  

That’s not true. Take a look at the Ravens for example. Almost all of their highest paid players are on D. 
 

The Eagles have neglected the D. I hear you about turnovers, but Schwartz has scrubs everywhere apart from the D-Line. He doesn’t have playmakers.

I agree though. I suspect Schwartz will leave out of choice.

[Iggles_Phan]

4 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

That’s not true. Take a look at the Ravens for example. Almost all of their highest paid players are on D. 
 

The Eagles have neglected the D. I hear you about turnovers, but Schwartz has scrubs everywhere apart from the D-Line. He doesn’t have playmakers.

I agree though. I suspect Schwartz will leave out of choice.

I disagree... he had some opportunities to develop some non-scrubs... but failed to.  Jones, Douglas, Darby, and now Slay at CB.  You can't have first round picks at every position.  

The Ravens... Are they the new gold standard?   They have a college offense... and it can't win in the playoffs.  Is that our goal now?   This is an offense driven league.  If you win... you win on offense now.

Ok.  Have a good day and be careful in the snow.

[eglz1]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:40 PM, NOTW said:

Consider this:  the same crew that brought in 14 offensive coaches for the offense are going to decide the new defensive coaching decisions.

 

Aren't you just a ray of sunshine 🙂

[Iggles_Phan]

On 12/14/2020 at 5:40 PM, NOTW said:

Consider this:  the same crew that brought in 14 offensive coaches for the offense are going to decide the new defensive coaching decisions.

 

Not necessarily.  They should all be tossed aside and pushed out.

[Talonblood]

If the Eagles could get someone better, do it. If  not, I have to try to support him. Who knows, maybe he grows his scheme into something more than what it is today. I want to see him go, but only if he is replaced by someone who is better than him, not just equal to him.

[eglz1]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:02 PM, Eagles_All_Day said:

He might be the only person to go.

That's my fear. The next 3 games will be interesting if Hurts doesn't look too much like the rookie he is. If the team as a whole looks better than they did with Wentz starting I can see Lurie not making any significant changes.

[JohnB]

I often wonder if it's the Schwartz scheme or just the fact that he's been given a load of crap to work with. 

The truth is everyone on our coaching staff is a Yes Man to Howie. 

[Traveler Vic]

We got bigger problems then Schwartz to think of next year. If we do get rid of Schwartz...Is there anyone better out there? What if we bring in someone worse?

[JetroLot]

On 12/14/2020 at 10:58 AM, 20dawk4life said:

That is because of his own philosophy. It’s not like Howie said F it all I’m giving you is DTs. Look at Schwartz career, he bases his defense off of the DTs and speedier DEs. LBs are an after thought, which makes him a perfect pair for the Eagles. He also likes safeties. 
 

LB

If you go back through his entire time as a coach, the only linebacker that really jumps out is Keith Bulluck and he was picked the year Jim was made a defensive assistant in Tennessee, Jim had him ride the bench for two years before starting him and then watched him flourish. Wasted him for at least one of those years. 

Then, the picks are just non athletes. It's insane how non athletic the guys are throughout time. Rocky Calmus. Rocky Boiman. Stephen Tulloch was a 5'11 guy that ran a 4.9. Tahir Whitehead. Only athlete on there was Terna Nande and holy hell he was the definition of a kid playing with no instincts. 

Now he seems to be overcorrecting. "Throw me athletes that can't tackle and/or play football." 

I like things about him as a coordinator, but his LB selection is f'ing putrid. I honestly think he's mentally handicapped with it. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

I don't know honestly, I've been critical of him as anyone in the past but I gotta say in the meat of this schedule, armed with absolute bums on the secondary and an offense that has dumped the defense in some horrible spots he's almost worked minor miracles. and I always assumed the D was a sort of team within a team where Schwartz has control of the roster until what he said about Jenkins at the weekend made it pretty clear he wasn't involved in the decision to let him walk.

What I'm saying is It's a hard season to judge because the offense has been so unproductive that it's hard to evaluate where the defense is at, I read a lot of complaints about the D Line and I've written a few myself but we're second in the league for sacks, and that's with a secondary that couldn't cover my grandpa or his wheelchair, if we had a secondary good enough to put up more than one coverage sack a season I'm pretty sure our Defense would be more or less unplayable, but then ask me when we just gave up 3rd and medium by giving receivers a ten yard cushion for the kajillionth time later this season and I'll be 'can Schwartz Tomorrow'.

So yeah I'm torn.

[ManchesterEagle]

17 hours ago, Talonblood said:

If the Eagles could get someone better, do it. If  not, I have to try to support him. Who knows, maybe he grows his scheme into something more than what it is today. I want to see him go, but only if he is replaced by someone who is better than him, not just equal to him.

 

7 hours ago, JohnB said:

I often wonder if it's the Schwartz scheme or just the fact that he's been given a load of crap to work with. 

The truth is everyone on our coaching staff is a Yes Man to Howie. 

 

3 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

We got bigger problems then Schwartz to think of next year. If we do get rid of Schwartz...Is there anyone better out there? What if we bring in someone worse?

 

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I don't know honestly, I've been critical of him as anyone in the past but I gotta say in the meat of this schedule, armed with absolute bums on the secondary and an offense that has dumped the defense in some horrible spots he's almost worked minor miracles. and I always assumed the D was a sort of team within a team where Schwartz has control of the roster until what he said about Jenkins at the weekend made it pretty clear he wasn't involved in the decision to let him walk.

What I'm saying is It's a hard season to judge because the offense has been so unproductive that it's hard to evaluate where the defense is at, I read a lot of complaints about the D Line and I've written a few myself but we're second in the league for sacks, and that's with a secondary that couldn't cover my grandpa or his wheelchair, if we had a secondary good enough to put up more than one coverage sack a season I'm pretty sure our Defense would be more or less unplayable, but then ask me when we just gave up 3rd and medium by giving receivers a ten yard cushion for the kajillionth time later this season and I'll be 'can Schwartz Tomorrow'.

So yeah I'm torn.

Schwartz's scheme is underrated and overly simplified by most. People hate the sticks D, but it does work most of the time.

I will say, as you say CC, that the off coverage at times is really frustrating, particularly on 3rd and medium where the DBs don't really have a chance to close sufficiently.

But his overall record is stellar given what he has had to work with. The one time he's had a D with overall decent talent here was the Super Bowl year. We were 4th in yards and 4th in total points.

He also averages giving up 17 points per game in the playoffs for the Eagles (and yes that includes the Super Bowl). That's really good. To put that in context the best D in the league this year is giving up 18 points per game.

[Vileborg]

We're starting to see more wrinkles on defense with Slay. I think if you give him a good second corner this defense could really be something.

[dawkins4prez]

On 12/14/2020 at 2:25 PM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I think he’s doing an okay job with how often we turn the ball over. He’s been handed a crap sandwich

 

We’ve in the teens on scoring D despite the second worst turnover differential in football. Hopefully hurts shows this

The defense finally played with a lead and they were doiminating the Saints until the entire secondary got wiped out.

[Talonblood]

5 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

 

Schwartz's scheme is underrated and overly simplified by most. People hate the sticks D, but it does work most of the time.

I will say, as you say CC, that the off coverage at times is really frustrating, particularly on 3rd and medium where the DBs don't really have a chance to close sufficiently.

But his overall record is stellar given what he has had to work with. The one time he's had a D with overall decent talent here was the Super Bowl year. We were 4th in yards and 4th in total points.

He also averages giving up 17 points per game in the playoffs for the Eagles (and yes that includes the Super Bowl). That's really good. To put that in context the best D in the league this year is giving up 18 points per game.

Really good post. Stop making me not hate the "Schwartz Is With Us." 😆