1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yet the assistant coaches are always the ones to go before the head.

Im not using it as an excuse um saying Howie is either bad at surrounding himself with good voices or he's not good at listening to those voices, I think it's more the latter.

Where have you seen that happen?   Normally a HC gets a few years to figure it out... and he might change an assistant along the way, but if he fails to build something that lasts in the first 3 or 4 years, he's gone and so is almost all of the staff.   The trouble here is that Howie was as responsible for this mess as anyone else, yet everyone else is gone, but he stays on.  The salary cap situation is 100% his fault.  The fact that the cupboard is completely devoid of young talent again falls on him.  

 

"With great power comes great responsibility."   Well, in Howie's case, with that power comes a scapegoat that he can point to and blame all his troubles on that.

 

27 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I actually agree with most of your post but you lost me here - and you were doing so well. Doug Pederson called it a Championship roster before the season started. The only thing lucky about 2017 is that the Eagles didn't sustain any crippling injuries. They lost Peters but after a couple rough starts they were able to make it work with Big V. The most important player - Torrey Smith - stayed healthy.

There is a lot to unpack to explain the failures of the years that have followed and as the GM Howie is responsible whether he is to blame or not. But the Eagles in 2017 were no more lucky than any other Superb Owl winner. You think the Ravens win the Owl if Jamal Lewis had gotten injured in 2001. Does any team win the Superb Owl with their back up QB - oh wait - the Eagles aren't the first - you think the Giants just feel lucky that they won with Jeff Hostettler? You think the Dolphins just feel lucky going undefeated in 1972 with backup Earl Morrall at QB for the bulk of the season including playoffs? Technically, Brady was the backup when he won his first Owl. And I say they were lucky - that Bledsoe was injured.

In the 2018 AFC championship game Brady threw an interception late in the game that would have sealed it for the Chiefs. But Dee Ford lined up offside and you can't give Brady a mulligan. That's still luck - you think Patriots fans feel like they were just lucky to win that one? A week earlier Foles is driving the Eagles late in the divisional game against the Saints - ball slips through Alshons hands and into the hands of a Saints defender - would have been a first down - instead it's a game ending interception - where is the Saints defender offside for the Eagles? There is always luck involved but to say it is all luck dismisses all the work put in to get to that point. The double doink is another example. It's just a missed field goal. Missed field goals have cost Superb Owls - do think the winners of those Owls are saying they were just lucky to win that one?

You can't just dismiss the injuries of 2019 and 2020 as if they are simply a footnote - they were crippling. AFan might (MIGHT) be overly apologetic for Howie but if so than you are the Anti AFan. Most of your argument is sound - but then you go off the edge to unreasonable criticism. 

I want a super Owl, sounds cool!

The problem the Eagles have with Pitts and Chase is how poorly they have managed the roster in the past 5 years. I am sure they would love to draft either - via trade up or not - but they can't hide from the fact the roster has larger needs and they won't make the team better in the areas they need them to by drafting either.  It's a big lesson for them.  At some point, you have to stop taking the sugar hit and look for next year.

 

44 minutes ago, austinfan said:

 

Sirianni as a Reich discipline brings the Eagle full circle, while there are a number of other concepts he picked up, at heart Reich is similar to early AR, ball control (Reich runs a bit more), short passing game, emphasis on OL and pass protection. So after being tempted by a strumpet, and a good girl who went bad, Howie is returning to the "girl next door."

On defense, Gannon continues the 4-3 tradition, but with some differences from JJ and Schwartz. Still dependent on the DL, more emphasis on LBs (like JJ), cover 2 with cover 1 and 3 concepts, and some Zimmer twists. So while a change, there's more continuity the past two decades on this side of the ball.

One of 3 things is true here.

1.  You get the memos on what the plan is, in which case, thanks for the inside info.

2.  Is Bill Belichick a carbon copy of Bill Parcells?  AR a copy of Holmgren?  Either our new coaches are mindless lower resolution xerox copies of their former bosses, or you can't know with that level of specificity what the plan is.

3.  None of this matters because Lowie are telling these coaches what to emphasize anyway.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Where have you seen that happen?   Normally a HC gets a few years to figure it out... and he might change an assistant along the way, but if he fails to build something that lasts in the first 3 or 4 years, he's gone and so is almost all of the staff.   The trouble here is that Howie was as responsible for this mess as anyone else, yet everyone else is gone, but he stays on.  The salary cap situation is 100% his fault.  The fact that the cupboard is completely devoid of young talent again falls on him.  

 

"With great power comes great responsibility."   Well, in Howie's case, with that power comes a scapegoat that he can point to and blame all his troubles on that.

 

Totally agree,Howie is a master Jedi at avoiding responsibility for failure

Some one else is always the scapegoat.

I have to think Chase would be 4.45 at a combine and Pitts would be well into the 4.5's, neither of which would be generating a ton of hype in any other offseason.  That's not to say that neither/both cannot go on to have HOF careers, but their raw workouts don't really stand out amongst historical peers.

I still feel better about seeing what falls to us at 12 than drafting one of those guys at 6.

3 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

The problem the Eagles have with Pitts and Chase is how poorly they have managed the roster in the past 5 years. I am sure they would love to draft either - via trade up or not - but they can't hide from the fact the roster has larger needs and they won't make the team better in the areas they need them to by drafting either.  It's a big lesson for them.  At some point, you have to stop taking the sugar hit and look for next year.

 

To me they’re just different-colored canisters on an immense shopping list.  

Would Pitts/Chase be an upgrade over the current targets on the roster?  Immensely.  Would Parsons be a better talent in the middle of the defense?  Again, immensely.  Would Surtain Jr be a better talent than anyone in the secondary not named Slay?  Immensely again.  Moehrig at safety?  Again, big upgrade in potential at a needed position 
 

It’s subjective to say whether WR is a bigger need than CB, LB, S, QB — they all need to be upgraded and I’m not sure any is a larger need than the other.

Better than I expected 

Just now, Original Sin said:

Better than I expected 

Basham doesn't get out of RD2. Would gladly take him in RD3.

The tape doesn't match the measurables. 

I think there is a 95% chance the pick is one of Waddle/Smith/Paye/Surtain/Horn.  

It seems the late whispers have Waddle edging ahead of Smith.  Weighing in at 170, 23 years old, and not running will tend to sink a prospect.  I bet Waddle is off the board and the Eagles are left choosing between Smith and defense.

 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think there is a 95% chance the pick is one of Waddle/Smith/Paye/Surtain.  

It seems the late whispers have Waddle edging ahead of Smith.  Weighing in at 170, 23 years old, and not running will tend to sink a prospect.  I bet Waddle is off the board and the Eagles are left choosing between Smith and defense.

Teams are going to love Smith, especially if they want to win-now (ex: Miami).

Best guess:

JAX: Lawrence.  Set in stone.

NYJ: Wilson.  Set in stone.

SF: Fields.  They may the move for a QB.

ATL: Pitts.  Easy consensus.

CIN: Chase.  Easy consensus.

MIA: Waddle.  Pretty safe guess.  I'm guessing they are going for the Alabama WR that didn't say it was an easy choice for Mac Jones over Tua.

DET:  Sewell.  Too much value for a team that only has one good OT.

CAR: Jones/Lance.  Prime spot for someone to trade for one of them if CAR doesn't take him themselves.  

DEN: Wild card at this point.  Maybe they see some Von Miller in Parsons.  If they don't draft Lance/Jones, the remaining QB will fall, fall, fall.

DAL: Surtain.  A CB is a safe assumption.

NYG: Rousseau.  Bit of a reach, maybe they see JPP in him.  Maybe they go CB.  CB/DE is a safe assumption.

EAGLES: Good chance the Eagles are choosing between Devonta Smith, Paye, and whatever CB Dallas/NYG leave on the board (likely Horn).  Possible trade-down opportunity if Jones/Lance have suitors.

17 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Best guess:

JAX: Lawrence.  Set in stone.

NYJ: Wilson.  Set in stone.

SF: Fields.  They may the move for a QB.

ATL: Pitts.  Easy consensus.

CIN: Chase.  Easy consensus.

MIA: Waddle.  Pretty safe guess.  I'm guessing they are going for the Alabama WR that didn't say it was an easy choice for Mac Jones over Tua.

DET:  Sewell.  Too much value for a team that only has one good OT.

CAR: Jones/Lance.  Prime spot for someone to trade for one of them if CAR doesn't take him themselves.  

DEN: Wild card at this point.  Maybe they see some Von Miller in Parsons.  If they don't draft Lance/Jones, the remaining QB will fall, fall, fall.

DAL: Surtain.  A CB is a safe assumption.

NYG: Rousseau.  Bit of a reach, maybe they see JPP in him.  Maybe they go CB.  CB/DE is a safe assumption.

EAGLES: Good chance the Eagles are choosing between Devonta Smith, Paye, and whatever CB Dallas/NYG leave on the board (likely Horn).  Possible trade-down opportunity if Jones/Lance have suitors.

I thought there was a recent report that 49ers were going to keep Jimmy G?

How is it an easy consensus for Bengals to pick a WR instead of a tackle? They need a tackle

49 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I want a super Owl, sounds cool!

Superb Owl - every year NFL teams compete for the title of Superb Owl

Jim Nagy

 

@JimNagy_SB

·

4m

 

 

Official results from

@GatorsFB

pro-day: WR Kadarius Toney

HT 5115

WT 193

Hand 9 1/4

Arm 31 1/4

Wing 74 3/4

40-yd 4.41/4.39 

 

VJ 39.5

 

BJ 11-4

 

SS 4.25

3C 6.88

 

BP 9x

47 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Best guess:

SF: Fields.  They may the move for a QB.

The pick is going to be Mac Jones. 

28 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I thought there was a recent report that 49ers were going to keep Jimmy G?

 

698 hours to go. We should be on the clock in about 700 hours. Getting there.

Liked the trade.

Carry on.

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The pick is going to be Mac Jones. 

 

Its Lance

Great time for Toney im just not sure what to make of him. Is he only a slot?

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Its Lance

There is to much smoke around the Mac Jones rumors.  

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

There is to much smoke around the Mac Jones rumors.  

 

6 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Its Lance

Great time for Toney im just not sure what to make of him. Is he only a slot?

 

15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The pick is going to be Mac Jones. 

 

Either way, it’s a qb.

Of Fields/Lance/Jones, one of them is going #3.

Baring another trade, the remaining 2 will not go until the 8/9 slots, controlled by CAR and DEN.  Chances are one, or both, will either draft one of those 2 qbs or trade out for someone else to do so.  Whoever remains after pick 9 will likely slide.

7 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Its Lance

Great time for Toney im just not sure what to make of him. Is he only a slot?

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

 

And if you think that afan only 'might' be overly apologetic for Howie, then you must not be the same Nivraga as on the old board.  He was around long enough to see afan's defense of Howie has never waned, not even for a moment.  

I am the one and only. The UID Nivraga is unique and personal - I suppose someone could steal it being aware of it's uniqueness but they wouldn't know the personal part. Ok - someone paying attention might know the personal part since I divulged it once when someone informed me that isn't how you spell Nirvana. 

You "might" find it disingenuous and contradictory that I agree with both of you most of the time but it's true. I think Howie is flawed for all the reasons you mentioned. I think there are extenuating circumstances. None of which excuse him from the decisions he's made save for one - possibly. Contrary to the constant narrative Roseman has never scapegoated or pointed at anyone. We are learning, however, he may have been dealing with a meddlesome owner. None of us are in the Novacare offices to know whats going on (I would love to have a bug in that place - that would be fun). When Lurie purchased the team he was asked about his involvement - his answer (paraphrasing of course) "I'm a fan and as such I'm going to be a big ball of questions - I will always want to know what is going on with my team - but I will try to find the best football people to run the team and then get out of their way". It seams as though that has changed - I would like to know if it actually has and when and to what degree. 

You leave no room for the possibility that you are wrong - that your criticism "might" be misplaced. It's good to have conviction in your opinions but hubris is part of what got Howie into this mess.

 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

One of 3 things is true here.

1.  You get the memos on what the plan is, in which case, thanks for the inside info.

2.  Is Bill Belichick a carbon copy of Bill Parcells?  AR a copy of Holmgren?  Either our new coaches are mindless lower resolution xerox copies of their former bosses, or you can't know with that level of specificity what the plan is.

3.  None of this matters because Lowie are telling these coaches what to emphasize anyway.

Yes, Belichick does a lot of things like Parcells. AR was definitely a copy of Holmgren who over a decade added some Air Coryell and other aspects to his offense (not always a good thing).

Sirianni has coached under Weis, Whisenhut and Reich - so yes, they're going to be his primary influences

Gannon coached under Zimmer and Eberflus.

It's not that they don't put their own stamp on their systems, but you learn from your mentors, your expertise is in those systems. Gannon is not going to convert us to a 3-4 if he doesn't have a lot of experience with 3-4 schemes.