1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

I think it makes total sense.  The Eagles traded right into no mans land where you're hoping a top player falls or your going to overdraft based on what's available.  Paye and Horn are great examples.  I think they are 15-17 range players but the Eagles might have to take one based on availability. 

It's one of my biggest gripes about the trade back.  I love the 1st next year.  However, with potentially 4 QB's going in the top 5, the Eagles were sitting pretty with only 1 team between them and every top prospect in the draft.  

Pitts, Chase, Sewell, Surtain IMO are the cream of the crop players, the elite position players available this year.  After them it drops off to a bunch of very good but hard to distinguish what their rank is players.

I just don't have a good grip on what 12 should bring us and I especially hate letting Dallas and NYG draft ahead of us (I know I know, who cares what they do). 

I dont think it makes total sense at all

15 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

I guess it’s that time of year again, but is it really a big deal to "overdraft” a guy at 12 that ideally you’d take 15-17?

I think value is overrated. If there’s a guy you love, I’d rather overdraft by half a round vs missing on him completely. At 12 they can still fill a big hole. And if they aren’t in love with anyone there, they can always move back again. 
put it this way, would you be all that upset if they got 5 guys they loved but took every one of them 10 picks "too early?”

Was Derek Barnett worth 14?  That's the kind of player I feel like we will get at 12 this year and IMO, that's bad value.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Was Derek Barnett worth 14?  That's the kind of player I feel like we will get at 12 this year and IMO, that's bad value.

I think Slater, Waddle, Smith, Horn and Surtain are all much better prospects than Barnett. 

3 hours ago, Nivraga said:

You leave no room for the possibility that you are wrong - that your criticism "might" be misplaced. It's good to have conviction in your opinions but hubris is part of what got Howie into this mess.

Well, since I am just a fan on a message board, my hubris can't mess up the team, destroy a QB's pysche, or cause a dozen others to lose their jobs, while insulating myself from the crosshairs.

 

I agree that Lurie might be the real culprit in all this, and that Howie is his fall guy.  

 

All of us are capable of being in error, and I will admit to my own share (and likely more than my share) of errors.  In the case of Eagles fandom, my being right or wrong won't impact the actions of the team.  My criticism of Howie is not intended to be infallible by any means.  There's likely a truth somewhere in between my position and afan's.  That said, my conviction is that the man in charge takes the blame for all actions under his control.  Bad free agent signings, bad draft picks, bad trades, bad coaches, bad scouts, etc.  It all falls on Howie's desk.  The buck stops with him.

I know the Dolphins might end up getting the same guy they would have wanted at 3 and still are netting a future 1 and an extra 3, but to give up their 1 next year to draft a 170-pound WR who refused to work out at his pro day seems like a bad business decision. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think Slater, Waddle, Smith, Horn and Surtain are all much better prospects than Barnett. 

I agree with you there.  Waddle or Horn would be the 2 out of that list.

Deshaun Watson sure loves a masseuse.   Just read there are 21 masseuses filing civil suites and another 18 masseuses are coming to his defense.  How many massueses does one person need?

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I agree with you there.  Waddle or Horn would be the 2 out of that list.

Those are my top two guys out of this grouping as well at 12. No matter what we will not be addressing all our needs in the top two rounds. Just not enough picks to match the ridiculous amount of needs. If Horn and Waddle are gone I think I would consider strongly trading back again. Could still get JOK, Surtain, Paye, Moehrig, Collins, Rousseau around the 15-19 spot. 

1. Jaguars - Trevor Lawrence 

2. Jets - Kyle Wilson

3. 49ers - Mac Jones

4. Panthers - Justin Fields

5. Bengals - Penei Sewell

6. Broncos - Trey Lance

7. Lions - Ja'Marr Chase

8. Falcons - Kyle Pitts

9. Dolphins - Jalen Waddle 

10. Cowboys - Patrick Surtain II

11. Giants - Micah Parsons

12. Eagles - Kwity Paye

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

1. Jaguars - Trevor Lawrence 

2. Jets - Kyle Wilson

3. 49ers - Mac Jones

4. Panthers - Justin Fields

5. Bengals - Penei Sewell

6. Broncos - Trey Lance

7. Lions - Ja'Marr Chase

8. Falcons - Kyle Litts

9. Dolphins - Jalen Waddle 

10. Cowboys - Patrick Surtain II

11. Giants - Micah Parsons

12. Eagles - Kwity Paye

The dolphins trade back again and get what now? No fair 

I would be fine with Paye here but I think I would rather go Horn 

8 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

The dolphins trade back again and get what now? No fair 

I would be fine with Paye here but I think I would rather go Horn 

 

Is rather go several other players than Paye.  But that's who I see Howie drafting. 

Waddle/Farley (or Samuel Jr if you are out on the injury red flag)

or

Horn/Toney?

52 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Was Derek Barnett worth 14?  That's the kind of player I feel like we will get at 12 this year and IMO, that's bad value.

The result says no, not worth 14.  But I'll stand by the concept that if you love your guy, I'm ok with over drafting.  And if you don't, feel free to move back.

Surtain>Horn right?

11 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Is rather go several other players than Paye.  But that's who I see Howie drafting. 

If that is how it broke, I would go Slater over Paye.  But, yes, I agree. I think that Howie goes OL or DL. 

5 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

Surtain>Horn right?

Depends on your scheme 

30 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

1. Jaguars - Trevor Lawrence 

2. Jets - Kyle Wilson

3. 49ers - Mac Jones

4. Panthers - Justin Fields

5. Bengals - Penei Sewell

6. Broncos - Trey Lance

7. Lions - Ja'Marr Chase

8. Falcons - Kyle Pitts

9. Dolphins - Jalen Waddle 

10. Cowboys - Patrick Surtain II

11. Giants - Micah Parsons

12. Eagles - Kwity Paye

Is this what you think Howie does or what you would want if it falls like that? Paye is a trash pick at 12.

19 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

The result says no, not worth 14.  But I'll stand by the concept that if you love your guy, I'm ok with over drafting.  And if you don't, feel free to move back.

It’s interesting to look back at the draft and see how littered with potholes the 2017 class was after the Barnett pick. 

Obviously Humphrey, White and Watt would have been terrific picks instead of Barnett. Ramsczyk fell because of a hip issue, but us proven to be very good.

The rest? Bolles was a bust until this season but now looks like a stud. He was 25 when picked. He’ll be 29 this season. Allen actually has fewer sacks than Barnett. Howard hasn’t come close to reaching expectations. Same for Hooker, Jackson, Davis, Harris, Conley, etc. McKinley, Harris and Charleton are basically fighting to stick around in the league. 

58 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Deshaun Watson sure loves a masseuse.   Just read there are 21 masseuses filing civil suites and another 18 masseuses are coming to his defense.  How many massueses does one person need?

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

Deshaun Watson sure loves a masseuse.   Just read there are 21 masseuses filing civil suites and another 18 masseuses are coming to his defense.  How many massueses does one person need?

I read that too, makes the whole thing confusing lol

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

It’s interesting to look back at the draft and see how littered with potholes the 2017 class was after the Barnett pick. 

Obviously Humphrey, White and Watt would have been terrific picks instead of Barnett. Ramsczyk fell because of a hip issue, but us proven to be very good.

The rest? Bolles was a bust until this season but now looks like a stud. He was 25 when picked. He’ll be 29 this season. Allen actually has fewer sacks than Barnett. Howard hasn’t come close to reaching expectations. Same for Hooker, Jackson, Davis, Harris, Conley, etc. McKinley, Harris and Charleton are basically fighting to stick around in the league. 

I think my constant takeaway is that there are no "sure things."  Not to say there aren't bad evaluations/choices/decisions, but there are so many variables that go into player success, that's why I stick with the idea that you should aggressively go after players you strongly believe in, and worry about value secondarily.  And I'm not claiming that's the best way, but it would be my way.

20 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

Is this what you think Howie does or what you would want if it falls like that? Paye is a trash pick at 12.

I’d say it’s a pretty likely pick

10 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

It’s interesting to look back at the draft and see how littered with potholes the 2017 class was after the Barnett pick. 

Obviously Humphrey, White and Watt would have been terrific picks instead of Barnett. Ramsczyk fell because of a hip issue, but us proven to be very good.

The rest? Bolles was a bust until this season but now looks like a stud. He was 25 when picked. He’ll be 29 this season. Allen actually has fewer sacks than Barnett. Howard hasn’t come close to reaching expectations. Same for Hooker, Jackson, Davis, Harris, Conley, etc. McKinley, Harris and Charleton are basically fighting to stick around in the league. 

But how!? OJ howard is a match up.nightmarrzzzz

27 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

Surtain>Horn right?

Based on what I've read recently, they are 1a and 1b with Farley only behind because of his injury.  I don't know enough to say whether the comparisons are accurate but I have read that Surtain is more like Byron Jones and Horn more like Jalen Ramsey.  I think Surtain has the highest floor but Horn (or Farley if healthy) may have the highest ceiling.  Horn's numbers were almost identical to Ramsey's for what that is worth.  

  

3 minutes ago, blindside said:

I’d say it’s a pretty likely pick

That would be one of the worst possible case scenarios. Paye is a 2nd round talent. He’s incredibly overrated even being considered an early 1st rounder. If you watch MI games you will see he isn’t anything that you would pay a premium for. Sorry for the rant lol.

Just now, Cliftoma said:

Based on what I've read recently, they are 1a and 1b with Farley only behind because of his injury.  I don't know enough to say whether the comparisons are accurate but I have read that Surtain is more like Byron Jones and Horn more like Jalen Ramsey.  I think Surtain has the highest floor but Horn (or Farley if healthy) may have the highest ceiling.  Horn's numbers were almost identical to Ramsey's for what that is worth.  

  

I thought Surtain was more Ramsey with his size and speed