3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This just makes no sense to me.

To a rebuilding team that does not aspire to compete, a QB has binary value.  Either you want to rebuild around Wentz, or you don’t.  

If you do, you shouldn’t be floating the guy on the trade market.  

And if you don’t, then a first round pick for a qb you weren’t building around anyway is a no brainer.  Take the best offer and run.  

Holding out for more is just an invitation to get burnt and end up holding the bag on a pissed off Wentz and his contract.  Pigs get slaughtered and that’s what’s going to happen if Howie gets greedy while unloading a qb who wasn’t even in the plans.

It makes perfect sense to me. This is Howie's shot to prove to the NFL world that he's still "got it" and he wants badly to own a team in a trade so he can repair his destroyed ego since he's been doing nothing but getting bashed in the media for the last 3 months.

There's no way in Fing hell he's getting a Stafford-like package for Wentz. And any logical person knows that isn't happening. And with plenty of QBs on the market, it's not like there's nowhere else for these other teams to turn. They could target Mariota, Carr, Darnold, and others.

This is all about Howie's ego.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It doesn't matter if Wentz is happy, he has no options.

Howie is not going to allow Wentz to force him to trade him to Indy (where reportedly he wants to go) at a discount, Howie's job is to do what's best for the Eagles, not Wentz. And it's not like Wentz is "an Eagle," like Dawkins or even Peters or Cox. Howie might do Kelce a favor because of his long history and identity with the franchise, but Wentz ain't paid those kind of dues.

Players want the money, don't care if that means a teammate gets cut, then talk about loyalty.

Howie's got to do what's best for the team.

So now not only has Wentz (reportedly) requested a trade now he is trying to force a trade to Indy, which has been offering less than other teams? Is that what you're saying here?

In defense of the move, every veteran RB has an injury track record.  That’s why you don’t draft these guys early.  They needed to add someone and he’s a very good back when healthy.  

Against the move, why on earth do you want a guy in year 1 off an achilles?  Of all positions and all injuries, really?

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This just makes no sense to me.

To a rebuilding team that does not aspire to compete, a QB has binary value.  Either you want to rebuild around Wentz, or you don’t.  

If you do, you shouldn’t be floating the guy on the trade market.  

And if you don’t, then a first round pick for a qb you weren’t building around anyway is a no brainer.  Take the best offer and run.  

Holding out for more is just an invitation to get burnt and end up holding the bag on a pissed off Wentz and his contract.  Pigs get slaughtered and that’s what’s going to happen if Howie gets greedy while unloading a qb who wasn’t even in the plans.

It's early February. What's the rush? It's not like teams have a lot of alternatives right now.

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

It makes perfect sense to me. This is Howie's shot to prove to the NFL world that he's still "got it" and he wants badly to own a team in a trade so he can repair his destroyed ego since he's been doing nothing but getting bashed in the media for the last 3 months.

There's no way in Fing hell he's getting a Stafford-like package for Wentz. And any logical person knows that isn't happening. And with plenty of QBs on the market, it's not like there's nowhere else for these other teams to turn. They could target Mariota, Carr, Darnold, and others.

This is all about Howie's ego.

Or why Howie is going to be patient. He's got the best cards at the table.

The offers that were reported were basically a high 2nd rd pick and salary dumps (i.e. #20-21 in return for Eagles' 2nd rd pick). If those reports are true, if I'm Howie I take my ball and go home. Now Howie knows he's not getting a Stafford type return, but he should be able to get a late 1st plus some other real assets (later round picks, a player worth acquiring). So he's gonig to play it cool and wait for someone to up the ante.

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This just makes no sense to me.

To a rebuilding team that does not aspire to compete, a QB has binary value.  Either you want to rebuild around Wentz, or you don’t.  

If you do, you shouldn’t be floating the guy on the trade market.  

And if you don’t, then a first round pick for a qb you weren’t building around anyway is a no brainer.  Take the best offer and run.  

Holding out for more is just an invitation to get burnt and end up holding the bag on a pissed off Wentz and his contract.  Pigs get slaughtered and that’s what’s going to happen if Howie gets greedy while unloading a qb who wasn’t even in the plans.

Deep down you know, I know, and every fan on here besides AFan  know that this is going to happen.  

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It's early February. What's the rush? It's not like teams have a lot of alternatives right now.

The longer you wait, the more alternatives present themselves.  You get it done before others are available. 

5 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

So now not only has Wentz (reportedly) requested a trade now he is trying to force a trade to Indy, which has been offering less than other teams? Is that what you're saying here?

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/carson-wentz-trade-destinations-indianapolis-colts-chicago-bears

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-rumors-carson-wentz-reportedly-has-sights-set-one-team-eagles-trade-talks

Is this true? Who knows, but Reich probably has the inside track if he wants Wentz, but Howie ain't gonna do Reich or Wentz any favors, match the best offer.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

It's early February. What's the rush? It's not like teams have a lot of alternatives right now.

It’s no different from selling a house.  The longer Wentz sits on the market, the less value they’ll get.

The college prospects will have their pro days and the spotlight associated with that.  Teams want a direction at the most important position on the field.  The longer this grinds on, the more they’ll be scouting the draft and the 2nd/3rd tier of veteran trades.

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

In defense of the move, every veteran RB has an injury track record.  That’s why you don’t draft these guys early.  They needed to add someone and he’s a very good back when healthy.  

Against the move, why on earth do you want a guy in year 1 off an achilles?  Of all positions and all injuries, really?

Because recoveries from Achilles are often 100% within a year, actually seems a better track record than ACLs.

Where you should be very wary are multiple ligament tears in the same knee.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

It’s no different from selling a house.  The longer Wentz sits on the market, the less value they’ll get.

The college prospects will have their pro days and the spotlight associated with that.  Teams want a direction at the most important position on the field.  The longer this grinds on, the more they’ll be scouting the draft and the 2nd/3rd tier of veteran trades.

Teams that are interested in Wentz want to win now and aren't drafting high enough to have a shot at a QB they'd even think about starting 2021.

Imagine what it would cost Indy to move up to say, #6? And then you have to hope that college QB is NFL ready.

Yeah, let's not out-wait ourselves. Don't get too greedy. If a good deal is there, don't be afraid to take it.

No deal is better than a bad deal

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

It’s no different from selling a house.  The longer Wentz sits on the market, the less value they’ll get.

The college prospects will have their pro days and the spotlight associated with that.  Teams want a direction at the most important position on the field.  The longer this grinds on, the more they’ll be scouting the draft and the 2nd/3rd tier of veteran trades.

This only makes sense for teams that have a legitimate shot at the top four QBs or do not intend to win now. Neither of those two options are applicable to the Bears or the Colts. I don’t even think Sam Darnold is a useful option for those teams - they seem stuck in this obscene display of hubris by Howie.

Just now, austinfan said:

Because recoveries from Achilles are often 100% within a year, actually seems a better track record than ACLs.

Where you should be very wary are multiple ligament tears in the same knee.

Achilles does not have a better (or faster) track record than acl. Achilles injury is also worse in year 1.

@HazletonEagle would know better than I, but my friends in ortho have repeatedly echoed this in the past.

Just now, austinfan said:

It's early February. What's the rush? It's not like teams have a lot of alternatives right now.

Right.  Who else is out there? Watson for 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks (if that's even enough)?   And I'm not sure Watson would be the ideal QB for many teams.  You're gutting your next 2 years of drafts in taking on a QB which will be a 40 million cap hit in 2022 and a 42 million cap hit in 2023.  No 1st or 2nd round picks for the next 2 years while your QB takes off 40+ million of your cap.  

I think a lot of Eagles fans have recency bias because of the "magic" he accomplished vs the Eagles in their last game and his amazing season but as a whole, as good as a season Watson had, they still went 4-12 and had a worse record than the Eagles. 

26 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

This following post is speculation on my part and is mostly to do with the financial side of the business. Didn't see this anywhere as hinted or reported but think it makes sense.

I saw some people saying "Why would Wentz be so mad at Howie that he wants out?" If you look at his Wentz contract, it was structured IMO, that he obviously would be restructured this coming offseason. This is the first year his cap number shoots up compared to past years, and he has a fully guaranteed salary this year, a roster bonus of $10M this year and will have $15M guaranteed next year (at third day of the new league year.)

People can say Howie did a bad job with the cap and some of these contracts, and while that is a fair argument, this didn't just come out of nowhere. Managing the cap is not just short term thinking, you have to have a plan for 2 to 3 years down the line. Even without a pandemic, this year would have been tight and maneuvering would have to be made. Howie knew this.

Now, to get to the point. It is my belief that it is possible that when Wentz and his agent were negotiating his extension, certain promises were made to Wentz. One of them being that this year they would restructure his contract, take all that's guaranteed in his contract and convert it to a bonus that Howie could allocate across the future years, giving Wentz not only money up front but security in future years while giving the Eagles cap relief that is needed for this upcoming dilemma. After the 2020 season and with the way things went down, Howie has to go against what he promised as he can't tie Wentz closer to the organization for years to come. So now Wentz feels he's been lied to on top of not receiving the money and security he was promised. Therefore, relationship strained. 

I also think this is becoming a pattern with Howie. Reports were out that there was confidence Ertz would get a new deal that would keep him an Eagle for life. Things started to turn, no deal got done, and then Howie after the pandemic offered less. Everyone knows the rest. There was clearly a strained relationship from Ertz this past season. There was a "heated exchanges" between the two. Why? I'm assuming the same thing. Howie made assurances that he had to go back on. It could have been something simple like the first offer would be on the table if Ertz changed his mind, and then took it off at a later date, or something else like that. It would not surprise me at all if Howie was, has or is being a "snake in the grass” as ex one player called him. 

You are not, pray tell,  suggesting that Howie is a weasel? 

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Teams that are interested in Wentz want to win now and aren't drafting high enough to have a shot at a QB they'd even think about starting 2021.

Imagine what it would cost Indy to move up to say, #6? And then you have to hope that college QB is NFL ready.

As bizarre as it may sound, I think Howie has a decent shot at a Stafford-like deal. He has the best talent on the market that can actually be obtained. I think he can make the Colts or Bears sweat a little bit here.

 

25 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It doesn't matter if Wentz is happy, he has no options.

Howie is not going to allow Wentz to force him to trade him to Indy (where reportedly he wants to go) at a discount, Howie's job is to do what's best for the Eagles, not Wentz. And it's not like Wentz is "an Eagle," like Dawkins or even Peters or Cox. Howie might do Kelce a favor because of his long history and identity with the franchise, but Wentz ain't paid those kind of dues.

Players want the money, don't care if that means a teammate gets cut, then talk about loyalty.

Howie's got to do what's best for the team  Howie.

Closer to the mark.

11 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Yeah, let's not out-wait ourselves. Don't get too greedy. If a good deal is there, don't be afraid to take it.

Must not be there or they would.

32 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

This following post is speculation on my part and is mostly to do with the financial side of the business. Didn't see this anywhere as hinted or reported but think it makes sense.

I saw some people saying "Why would Wentz be so mad at Howie that he wants out?" If you look at his Wentz contract, it was structured IMO, that he obviously would be restructured this coming offseason. This is the first year his cap number shoots up compared to past years, and he has a fully guaranteed salary this year, a roster bonus of $10M this year and will have $15M guaranteed next year (at third day of the new league year.)

People can say Howie did a bad job with the cap and some of these contracts, and while that is a fair argument, this didn't just come out of nowhere. Managing the cap is not just short term thinking, you have to have a plan for 2 to 3 years down the line. Even without a pandemic, this year would have been tight and maneuvering would have to be made. Howie knew this.

Now, to get to the point. It is my belief that it is possible that when Wentz and his agent were negotiating his extension, certain promises were made to Wentz. One of them being that this year they would restructure his contract, take all that's guaranteed in his contract and convert it to a bonus that Howie could allocate across the future years, giving Wentz not only money up front but security in future years while giving the Eagles cap relief that is needed for this upcoming dilemma. After the 2020 season and with the way things went down, Howie has to go against what he promised as he can't tie Wentz closer to the organization for years to come. So now Wentz feels he's been lied to on top of not receiving the money and security he was promised. Therefore, relationship strained. 

I also think this is becoming a pattern with Howie. Reports were out that there was confidence Ertz would get a new deal that would keep him an Eagle for life. Things started to turn, no deal got done, and then Howie after the pandemic offered less. Everyone knows the rest. There was clearly a strained relationship from Ertz this past season. There was a "heated exchanges" between the two. Why? I'm assuming the same thing. Howie made assurances that he had to go back on. It could have been something simple like the first offer would be on the table if Ertz changed his mind, and then took it off at a later date, or something else like that. It would not surprise me at all if Howie was, has or is being a "snake in the grass” as ex one player called him. 

That's a very well thought out post.  

That said, if you're Wentz (or his agent) and you just had the season you had, are you still assuming the Eagles will restructure your deal and give you all the added security you were expecting?  A good portion of the contract is guaranteed so Wentz will get paid one way or another so I don't understand where all this "added security" that he would expect is coming from?

13 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Yeah, let's not out-wait ourselves. Don't get too greedy. If a good deal is there, don't be afraid to take it.

Why? Nothing is official until next month anyway. We can get Gore’d again. 

20 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Or why Howie is going to be patient. He's got the best cards at the table.

The offers that were reported were basically a high 2nd rd pick and salary dumps (i.e. #20-21 in return for Eagles' 2nd rd pick). If those reports are true, if I'm Howie I take my ball and go home. Now Howie knows he's not getting a Stafford type return, but he should be able to get a late 1st plus some other real assets (later round picks, a player worth acquiring). So he's gonig to play it cool and wait for someone to up the ante.

I'm not sure he does. What if Mariota could be had for a 4th?

I'd much rather have him for a 4th than Wentz for two 1sts.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Achilles does not have a better (or faster) track record than acl. Achilles injury is also worse in year 1.

@HazletonEagle would know better than I, but my friends in ortho have repeatedly echoed this in the past.

I hate the achilles injury for a CB which is why I hated Sidney Jones in round 1. I dont hate it as much for a RB. 

How recently have you asked your ortho friends? The mini-open repair technique has made recovery much better for achilles in the past couple of years. I do still think its a bigger deal than an ACL. It seems to take longer to fully recover. Healthy enough to play in 6-9 months these days, but probably not your athletic best sometimes for a few years.

However I think Marlon Mack will have his lateral agility which is his best attribute. Just less forward acceleration. At the same time, I think thats easier for a RB to regain than it is for a CB to backpedal then click and close. Thats such a higher eccentric load on the achilles, and a RB doesnt have to do that sort of movement. I think the effects will be less noticeable in a RB. My bigger worry is when does the re-tear, or other achilles pop? It seems quite likely.

Mack did this in September. Hes already going to be a full year removed by the start of next season. I think as a backfield share with Sanders youd get a solid return on investment. If the re-injury doesnt happen when he is still on the team here. 

 

When are we retiring the #9? 

5 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Why? Nothing is official until next month anyway. We can get Gore’d again. 

We could run out of buyers. We'll see who flinches first. We have to play it carefully.