2 minutes ago, Gannan said:

You both want so badly to try to prove that this group of fascists who at the very least are trying to sweep the attempted violent overthrow of our democracy under the rug without addressing it or punishing those responsible in an effort to "both sides it". I think you both are good posters and probably good people, but quite frankly you're embarrassing yourselves. 

I couldn't care less about those people.  I'm happy to draw and quarter them.

The real story here is that you want so badly to try to tie my positions to those idiots.  Yet you've seen me rail against them daily for five years now.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.  You seem to be out on some weird revenge tangent of sorts over the last couple of weeks.

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

And it says that 72% of Democrats say it's not true at all - meaning 28% believe it's true right?

 

It's simple. I don't care about the polls, because the respondents are mere sheep. This is the time for the party leaders to step up and reject Trumpism and craziness. McConnell is trying, but he is one hand clapping. If McCarthy won't step up to the plate because he fears Trump, then to hell with all of them. 

If the party leadership would LEAD, those polls would change.

2 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Playing with numbers is fun!

 

Yeah...that's what I said, because what you linked was playing with numbers.  

Do you have an answer for the 28% of Democrats compared to 33% of Republicans that believe it's "mostly" true?  Do you think that 28% number is concerning?  

Do you have a response to the below?

5 minutes ago, NOTW said:

The question asked was "Do you believe that the QAnon theory about a conspiracy among deep state elites is true?"

There's a difference between believing in "deep state elites" and believing that they are Satan worshippers who sacrifice children, that Jewish space lasers caused the wildfire, etc.

So which "parts" do people believe?  That there are elites running the government?  That there is an "establishment" or "deep state" of traditional politicians that didn't like Trump?  Hard to gauge specifics, especially from a survey of only 1300 people online.

Do you have thoughts on a more recent poll - not from August but January - that shows the % dropped from 33% to 24%?

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-poll-believe-gop-capitol-1566034

 

1 minute ago, Gannan said:

Of course you do. And his foot probably slipped on the gas pedal in Charlottesville. 

My point exactly.  You've lost the ability to see in other than a binary fashion.  What happened dude?  It's like someone else has been in control of your account for the last 10 days.

4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I bet 70% of them don't even know what the QAnon theory is

And you'd lose

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

It's simple. I don't care about the polls, because the respondents are mere sheep. This is the time for the party leaders to step up and reject Trumpism and craziness. McConnell is trying, but he is one hand clapping. If McCarthy won't step up to the plate because he fears Trump, then to hell with all of them. 

If the party leadership would LEAD, those polls would change.

This is where the rubber hits the road.  Let's see how much power the old guard has left.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

My point exactly.  You've lost the ability to see in other than a binary fashion.  What happened dude?  It's like someone else has been in control of your account for the last 10 days.

I mean, the actual "nuanced details" are right here for you to see.

https://civiqs.com/documents/Civiqs_DailyKos_monthly_banner_book_2020_09_klw74f.pdf

Read the words. Add the numbers. 

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Yeah...that's what I said, because what you linked was playing with numbers.  

Do you have an answer for the 28% of Democrats compared to 33% of Republicans that believe it's "mostly" true?  Do you think that 28% number is concerning?  

Do you have a response to the below?

Do you have thoughts on a more recent poll - not from August but January - that shows the % dropped from 33% to 24%?

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-poll-believe-gop-capitol-1566034

 

   

Just now, vikas83 said:

It's simple. I don't care about the polls, because the respondents are mere sheep. This is the time for the party leaders to step up and reject Trumpism and craziness. McConnell is trying, but he is one hand clapping. If McCarthy won't step up to the plate because he fears Trump, then to hell with all of them. 

If the party leadership would LEAD, those polls would change.

The thing is, if not now, when?  He just got the boot.  He just embarrassed and disgraced himself and the party in the most public way possible.  2 years from any election period.  4 years from the next presidential election.  6 years until reelection for a lot of the senate.  There's no better time. And the fact that McCarthy pivoted to the bended knee is a really bad sign.  It's not going to happen.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

This is where the rubber hits the road.  Let's see how much power the old guard has left.

I fear there is no old guard, just sheep, cult members and opportunists. McCarthy wants to be speaker so he will roll with Fat Donnie. McConnell, Romney, etc. will be marginalized while the party becomes even more about simply owning libs and worshipping Trump.

The party of Reagan may be lost forever. We'll know this week.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

I couldn't care less about those people.  I'm happy to draw and quarter them.

The real story here is that you want so badly to try to tie my positions to those idiots.  Yet you've seen me rail against them daily for five years now.

I think part of the reason we are where we are is because we try to excuse things away, or refuse to call things what they are. I'm not trying to tie your positions to them. I think trying to say that they are not the face of the republican party is folly. They absolutely are the republican party. This afternoon we have the republican minority leader refusing to even address this. It means he's encouraging it. He promoted a person to a committee that threated to kill his colleague. When this was brought to his attention, he refused to do anything about it. That's the fact and there's no excusing it. It's what they stand for. 

The republican party is the Q Anon party.

They are the party of attempting to overturn free and fair elections when they don't win

They are the party that encourages the violent overthrow of the government when they can't overturn elections that they don't win

They are the party that refuses to condemn those who promote violence for political means and refuses to punish those most responsible. 

It's what they are. At this point it's pretty much all they are and all they stand for. 

11 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Belief in QAnon

QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory about "deep state elites” has extensive support among Republican voters. One in three Republicans (33%) believe that the QAnon theory is mostly true. Another 23% of Republicans say that some parts of the QAnon conspiracy are true. Only 13% of Republicans think that it is not true at all. In contrast, 72% of Democrats say the QAnon conspiracy theory is not true at all.

Ah, I misread that.  

I can admit when I'm wrong (don't see too many people do that here).

10% of Dems, unsure.  4% some parts are true, 5% most are true.  So really 9% of Democrats in this poll thought at least some parts of QAnon were true, and 10% didn't denounce it as not true at all, saying they were unsure.  There was an option to say you've never heard of Qanon, which means this 10% heard of Qanon but aren't sure if it's true.  So 19% that didn't say "not true at all."

Still, shouldn't that number be 0?  Is it concerning that 19% of Democrats in the poll didn't say it was not true at all?

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

The thing is, if not now, when?  He just got the boot.  He just embarrassed and disgraced himself and the party in the most public way possible.  2 years from any election period.  4 years from the next presidential election.  6 years until reelection for a lot of the senate.  There's no better time. And the fact that McCarthy pivoted to the bended knee is a really bad sign.  It's not going to happen.

That is pretty much why I have basically lost hope. It was so disgusting. 

5 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Yeah...that's what I said, because what you linked was playing with numbers.  

Do you have an answer for the 28% of Democrats compared to 33% of Republicans that believe it's "mostly" true?  Do you think that 28% number is concerning?  

Do you have a response to the below?

Do you have thoughts on a more recent poll - not from August but January - that shows the % dropped from 33% to 24%?

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-poll-believe-gop-capitol-1566034

 

Yes. 28% of democrats are idiots. None of them should be elected to congress or put on the education committee. See? It's not that hard. 

Just now, NOTW said:

Ah, I misread that.  

I can admit when I'm wrong (don't see too many people do that here).

10% of Dems, unsure.  4% some parts are true, 5% most are true.  So really 9% of Democrats in this poll thought at least some parts of QAnon were true.

Still, shouldn't that number be 0?  

Yes. 

Just now, VanHammersly said:

The thing is, if not now, when?  He just got the boot.  He just embarrassed and disgraced himself and the party in the most public way possible.  2 years from any election period.  4 years from the next presidential election.  6 years until reelection for a lot of the senate.  There's no better time. And the fact that McCarthy pivoted to the bended knee is a really bad sign.  It's not going to happen.

I agree that was a bad sign.  I realize McCarthy is thinking about trying to regain the House in '22 but he made a clear mistake.

The odds look bleak at the moment.  There was a point a few weeks back where I thought the old guard should consider walking away from the madness and assuming the position of swing voting bloc in the Senate.  A suicide mission for sure but if they aren't actually going to fight to win back the Repubs they may as well leave.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I fear there is no old guard, just sheep, cult members and opportunists. McCarthy wants to be speaker so he will roll with Fat Donnie. McConnell, Romney, etc. will be marginalized while the party becomes even more about simply owning libs and worshipping Trump.

The party of Reagan may be lost forever. We'll know this week.

That's what it looks like.

Maybe the right move is for traditional Republicans to go on the offensive in 2022. What do we know about the Trumpists -- they are morons who skate into office in safe districts. The party apparatus, the fund raising infrastructure -- that is all (hopefully) still controlled by non-insane people. Time to start getting primary challengers for the cultists -- Greene, Boerbert, Gaetz, etc. Basically every clown who voted to overturn the election. 

Where are the Koch Brothers when he really need them? Lincoln Project?

11 minutes ago, Gannan said:

You both want so badly to try to prove that this group of fascists who at the very least are trying to sweep the attempted violent overthrow of our democracy under the rug without addressing it or punishing those responsible in an effort to "both sides it". I think you both are good posters and probably good people, but quite frankly you're embarrassing yourselves. 

I don't know what you're trying to say here.  Trying to prove...what?

I called the storming of the Capitol domestic terrorism and was horrified by it.  I condemned Qanon. I've criticized the Republican party for being lost, giving in to the cult of Trump, losing their identify and no longer being about the classical conservative principles.  I've called them hypocrites.  I haven't defended a single GOP politician.  I've said Trump should be thrown in jail.  

What I've argued against is your exaggeration that MAINSTREAM Republican views are MURDERING Democrats, removing term limits for life, and other such nonsense.  You're so emotional and over the top - sometimes you back away and say you're just trolling and you really don't believe it.  Then you call everyone else triggered while you makes these crazy claims.

Vikas was right: let's focus on how they deal with Greene and Cheney.  How they vote on Impeachment.  Watch how many more Republicans leave the party, and what happens to them going forward. Is there a split?  Does the crazy take over and a new party forms?  Lots more to come.

4 minutes ago, Gannan said:

The republican party is the Q Anon party - Simply not the case.  That's just silly.

They are the party of attempting to overturn free and fair elections when they don't win - And yet the majority of GOP congressmen voted to certify.  Use a little bit of honesty mate.

They are the party that encourages the violent overthrow of the government when they can't overturn elections that they don't win - The outgoing POTUS and a few members went down that route.  The majority of Republican voters were against the storming of the Capitol.  I've seen polls with as much as 80% of Repubs saying they were against the action.

They are the party that refuses to condemn those who promote violence for political means and refuses to punish those most responsible. - The majority of Republican Congressmen that have weighed in have condemned the actions at the Capitol.

It's what they are. At this point it's pretty much all they are and all they stand for.

 

You're turning into a partisan hack mate.  Did Moss hijack your account?

5 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Is it concerning that 19% of Democrats in the poll didn't say it was not true at all?

Of course. But not nearly as concerning as the 68% of republicans that did the same. Or 9% vs 56% that believe it's partly or mostly true. Or 5% vs 33% that believe it's mostly true. However you want to slice it, it's awful.

The end result is the representatives of one party has free reign to disavow this nonsense publicly, while the other basically has its hands tied and needs to walk on eggshells when addressing this sort of insanity.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Maybe the right move is for traditional Republicans to go on the offensive in 2022. What do we know about the Trumpists -- they are morons who skate into office in safe districts. The party apparatus, the fund raising infrastructure -- that is all (hopefully) still controlled by non-insane people. Time to start getting primary challengers for the cultists -- Greene, Boerbert, Gaetz, etc. Basically every clown who voted to overturn the election. 

Where are the Koch Brothers when he really need them? Lincoln Project?

100% this.  The way to speak to the Republican base is to fight for what you want the party to be.  It's why they love Trump, because he's constantly on the offensive.  Otherwise, you're just playing by their rules, deflecting, trying to avoid questions, looking weak, etc..  Force them to play by your rules.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Maybe the right move is for traditional Republicans to go on the offensive in 2022. What do we know about the Trumpists -- they are morons who skate into office in safe districts. The party apparatus, the fund raising infrastructure -- that is all (hopefully) still controlled by non-insane people. Time to start getting primary challengers for the cultists -- Greene, Boerbert, Gaetz, etc. Basically every clown who voted to overturn the election. 

Where are the Koch Brothers when he really need them? Lincoln Project?

I'd love to see the traditional group walk away and join the new "Lincoln Party" as a founding member.  You absolutely hated that idea a few weeks back and you crucified me for even uttering the thought.  They can always reconcile down the road once the majority of people wake up.

17 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I bet 70% of them don't even know what the QAnon theory is

Answers of "I've never heard of QAnon:

14% total
9% Democrat
19% Republican