1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

Careful painting with too broad a brush there chief.  Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, Anthony Weiner and Bernie Madoff were all Democrats and major contributors to the party (just to name a few). 

And if you want to be factual about it (which I suspect you don't)...feel free to tally up the crimes by party in the link below and come back to us with the final score.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

Okay, but in the modern era, Republicans lead democrats in presidential impeachments -  2 to 1.   And the one Dem impeachment was for lying about sex vs. trying to strongarm Ukraine to investigate a political rival;  and inciting your followers to try to stop the electoral process/lying about your own election loss.   

I should add that Nixon resigned to avoid the inevitable impeachment -- and if Trump had any scruples he would have resigned after Jan. 6th (despite knowing that Republicans in the Senate were too pussified to impeach him).  

there are crappy people from both parties. and good people from both parties.

it would be better to support the good ones and disown the bad ones, regardless of partisanship.

1 hour ago, caesar said:

Okay, but in the modern era, Republicans lead democrats in presidential impeachments -  2 to 1.   And the one Dem impeachment was for lying about sex vs. trying to strongarm Ukraine to investigate a political rival;  and inciting your followers to try to stop the electoral process/lying about your own election loss.   

I should add that Nixon resigned to avoid the inevitable impeachment -- and if Trump had any scruples he would have resigned after Jan. 6th (despite knowing that Republicans in the Senate were too pussified to impeach him).  

This isn't a body count competition Turd Ferguson, both parties have people that absolutely suck and lately neither has the American people in mind. 

18 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

This isn't a body count competition Turd Ferguson, both parties have people that absolutely suck and lately neither has the American people in mind. 

Heh. Funny name. Turd Ferguson.

 

12 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

This isn't a body count competition Turd Ferguson, both parties have people that absolutely suck and lately neither has the American people in mind. 

I think the republicans are more loyal to party over country than democrats.  It boggles the mind that republicans wouldn't convict Trump (out of fear of party/base) for basically having his supporters attack the congressional branch of our government (and hurt 140 police officers in the process) to overturn an election he lost and actually lost by a significant margin.   Even though the vote to convict took place when he was already out of office - so there wasn't a ton of down-side -- it wasn't during his term anymore.    I think if it was reversed dems may very well have voted to convict a democratic president.   Look at Al Franken for example  -- they pushed him out. Republicans would have doubled down and said it was just locker room stuff or sumthin like that.   

So yes, while there are corrupt individuals on both sides - I do not agree that there is an equivalency as to who has the interests of the American people in mind (vs party base).

Did the Republicans have the american people in mind when they tried to stop and then repeatedly repeal Obamacare -- when polls showed a majority of Americans supported keeping it?   Do the Republicans have the people in mind when they refuse to implement additional gun control measures -- when most Americans supported that?   

 

22 minutes ago, caesar said:

I think the republicans are more loyal to party over country than democrats.  It boggles the mind that republicans wouldn't convict Trump (out of fear of party/base) for basically having his supporters attack the congressional branch of our government (and hurt 140 police officers in the process) to overturn an election he lost and actually lost by a significant margin.   Even though the vote to convict took place when he was already out of office - so there wasn't a ton of down-side -- it wasn't during his term anymore.    I think if it was reversed dems may very well have voted to convict a democratic president.   Look at Al Franken for example  -- they pushed him out. Republicans would have doubled down and said it was just locker room stuff or sumthin like that.   

So yes, while there are corrupt individuals on both sides - I do not agree that there is an equivalency as to who has the interests of the American people in mind (vs party base).

Did the Republicans have the american people in mind when they tried to stop and then repeatedly repeal Obamacare -- when polls showed a majority of Americans supported keeping it?   Do the Republicans have the people in mind when they refuse to implement additional gun control measures -- when most Americans supported that?   

 

This I agree with. 

Both parties have bad actors. One party is showing at least a basic willingness to hold its own members accountable.

The other, not so much.

Ultimately that goes to the voters. The Republican base has no interest in holding Republicans accountable, because they see that as disloyalty to the party. The politicians refusing to hold their members accountable is a reflection of that. 

3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

This I agree with. 

Both parties have bad actors. One party is showing at least a basic willingness to hold its own members accountable.

The other, not so much.

Ultimately that goes to the voters. The Republican base has no interest in holding Republicans accountable, because they see that as disloyalty to the party. The politicians refusing to hold their members accountable is a reflection of that. 

Meh, Republicans haven't been great recently, but Democrats haven't either.  And let's not use this Cuomo thing as a litmus test because the man was left in office for over a year after these allegations came out and it wasn't until the state AG completed a formal investigation that any of the party leadership chose to jump on the bandwagon and demand resignation.  And we're not even talking about Cuomo's decision to allow Covid positive patients back into nursing homes which killed thousands.  

I'm not saying their aren't idiots in the Republican party, and I'm not making a case that one party is better than the other at holding their leaders accountable.  All I'm saying is that both parties have a major problem with tribalism. 

In my mind, the real issue is that the tribalism has gotten so bad that when a viable claim does come up against a member of your party it is easy to dismiss it as a smear campaign driven by the other side.  Republicans are surely guilty of that, as are Democrats.  I will say that the Trump crowd has made this tribalism thing much worse for the Republicans as of late, but there is plenty of it going on with Democrats too.

A Democrat governor, senator, and congresswoman either resigned or were run out of their offices when shenanigans came to light in the last few years.

Republicans nominated Roy Moore and elected Trump.

There is no moral equivalency. Yes both have bad actors. But one party has been better about tending to their own house while the other has been not only derelict, but has defended to the end some of the worst.

37 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Meh, Republicans haven't been great recently, but Democrats haven't either.  And let's not use this Cuomo thing as a litmus test because the man was left in office for over a year after these allegations came out and it wasn't until the state AG completed a formal investigation that any of the party leadership chose to jump on the bandwagon and demand resignation.  And we're not even talking about Cuomo's decision to allow Covid positive patients back into nursing homes which killed thousands.  

I'm not saying their aren't idiots in the Republican party, and I'm not making a case that one party is better than the other at holding their leaders accountable.  All I'm saying is that both parties have a major problem with tribalism. 

In my mind, the real issue is that the tribalism has gotten so bad that when a viable claim does come up against a member of your party it is easy to dismiss it as a smear campaign driven by the other side.  Republicans are surely guilty of that, as are Democrats.  I will say that the Trump crowd has made this tribalism thing much worse for the Republicans as of late, but there is plenty of it going on with Democrats too.

Cuomo’s actually a great example of how either party should handle these types of situations. They didn’t turn on him when unproven allegations came to light. Instead they waited on the results of an investigation and once it was confirmed, then they turned on him.  Why do you think they should’ve turned on him without any verification?  That’s a standard I can promise you don’t want applied to Republicans.  

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Cuomo’s actually a great example of how either party should handle these types of situations. They didn’t turn on him when unproven allegations came to light. Instead they waited on the results of an investigation and once it was confirmed, then they turned on him.  Why do you think they should’ve turned on him without any verification?  That’s a standard I can promise you don’t want applied to Republicans.  

Because the same party tuned on Kavanaugh, screamed to the heavens and ruined a man's reputation for a claim that was a fractional sliver of the claims against Cuomo. And, moreover, completely ignored Tara Reade's claims against Biden. 

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Because the same party tuned on Kavanaugh, screamed to the heavens and ruined a man's reputation for a claim that was a fractional sliver of the claims against Cuomo. 

If you expect the parties to treat the other side the way they treat their own then you’re living in a fantasy land. Republicans jump to conclusions when a Dems accused of something too. But waiting on verification before turning on your own is completely sensible. Not sure why you think they should’ve done anything but wait on the results of the investigation. 
 

Also lol at "ruined a mans reputation”. He’s a SC Justice for the rest of his life.  

^^^^^^*ukn’ ahole

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

If you expect the parties to treat the other side the way they treat their own then you’re living in a fantasy land. Republicans jump to conclusions when a Dems accused of something too. But waiting on verification before turning on your own is completely sensible. Not sure why you think they should’ve done anything but wait on the results of the investigation. 
 

Also lol at "ruined a mans reputation”. He’s a SC Justice for the rest of his life.  

I expect the standard to be the same.  And I also expect people to be held responsible when they violate the law.  Look, I know I'm diverting here a bit, but I just have a hard time placing Democrats on some moral pedestal when you look at their behavior over the last few years.  

And you can stop it right now with the reputation comments.  You know well that both Thomas and Kavanaugh have asterixis next to their names after what they were put through.  The political weaponization of sexual harassment claims need to stop on both sides. 

3 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

The political weaponization of sexual harassment claims need to stop on both sides.

There is zero chance of that happening.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

There is zero chance of that happening.

Right, and that is in large part why we can't get any decent candidates from outside the existing political machine to run.  

15 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Because the same party tuned on Kavanaugh, screamed to the heavens and ruined a man's reputation for a claim that was a fractional sliver of the claims against Cuomo. And, moreover, completely ignored Tara Reade's claims against Biden. 

Tara Reade? Really? 😆

13 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Tara Reade? Really? 😆

It really is laughable how you all blow off allegations against your beloved candidates but triple down on those against your opposition. 

I have no idea if Reade's claims were real or not.  All I know is that they were far more serious and viable than Blasey Ford's ever were.  But Reade's claims were ignored by the media and simply laughed off by the same Biden voters that screamed about Kavanaugh while feverishly supporting the ridiculous media circus that followed. 

"We believe all women" what a joke. 

23 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I expect the standard to be the same.  And I also expect people to be held responsible when they violate the law.  Look, I know I'm diverting here a bit, but I just have a hard time placing Democrats on some moral pedestal when you look at their behavior over the last few years.  

And you can stop it right now with the reputation comments.  You know well that both Thomas and Kavanaugh have asterixis next to their names after what they were put through.  The political weaponization of sexual harassment claims need to stop on both sides. 

Hypocrite much, buddy. You just brought up Tara Reade. And, if I remember correctly, you were the one beating that drum all through the election. Spare me the crocodile tears when you’re more than happy to weaponize unproven, obviously made up allegations when they’re made against the other side. You ruined Biden’s reputation!!!  

Just now, VanHammersly said:

Hypocrite much, buddy. You just brought up Tara Reade. And, if I remember correctly, you were the one beating that drum all through the election. Spare me the crocodile tears when you’re more than happy to weaponize unproven, obviously made up allegations when they’re made against the other side. You ruined Biden’s reputation!!!  

Actually, no.  I bring her claim up only to point out the hypocrisy that is the Democrats stance on sexual harassments claims.  What made Blasey Ford's claims more viable that Tara Reade's?  

To be clear, I hate all this weaponization of sexual harassments claims, and I suspect it is all BS.  But, if you're going to create the fiasco you did against Kavanaugh and completely ignore the claims against Biden then you deserve all the criticism you get.  

32 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Look, I know I'm diverting here a bit, but I just have a hard time placing Democrats on some moral pedestal when you look at their behavior over the last few years.  

I wouldn't put any political party "on a pedestal". All of them have committed gross acts.

But in the last 10-15 years or so Democrats have been much more consistent with their stated principles. Republicans have sat on a supreme court nomination, nominated a child predator for a Senate seat, have another one representing a Florida House seat, oh and elected the most unethical president since at least Nixon - a president whose refusal to accept the results of free and fair elections resulted in an attack on the Capitol building by his supporters with the express goal of stopping the peaceful transfer of power from one president to another. 

An attack that Republicans have done everything in their power to prevent the investigation of.

So yeah, Democrats may not reside on a moral pedestal. But they're acting within some typical norms, while the Republican parties continues to try and whitewash their bad behavior and project it on Democrats.

I'm sorry, but the moral equivalency arguments are nauseating. 

12 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

It really is laughable how you all blow off allegations against your beloved candidates but triple down on those against your opposition. 

I have no idea if Reade's claims were real or not.  All I know is that they were far more serious and viable than Blasey Ford's ever were.  But Reade's claims were ignored by the media and simply laughed off by the same Biden voters that screamed about Kavanaugh while feverishly supporting the ridiculous media circus that followed. 

"We believe all women" what a joke. 

Blasey Ford testified in front of the Senate under the penalty of perjury. Tara Reade didn't even so much as provide sworn testimony of her allegations. So no, Reade's claims weren't "far more viable". But thoroughly amusing that a shameless hack such as yourself would bring up Reade and ignore the 20+ women accusing Trump of sexual misconduct. I guess Reade's claims were "far more viable" than theirs too.

6 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Actually, no.  I bring her claim up only to point out the hypocrisy that is the Democrats stance on sexual harassments claims.  What made Blasey Ford's claims more viable that Tara Reade's?  

To be clear, I hate all this weaponization of sexual harassments claims, and I suspect it is all BS.  But, if you're going to create the fiasco you did against Kavanaugh and completely ignore the claims against Biden then you deserve all the criticism you get.  

Um, I hate to burst your sanctimonious bubble, but I didn’t "create the fiasco against Kavanaugh”.  My position was that even if he did it, it’s irrelevant to his position on the court. The only thing disqualifying for the position he was seeking was his embarrassing, insanely partisan rant in front of the Senate. It was a low point for any SC Justice.

But, back to the point at hand, why did you ruin Biden’s reputation!?!  You monster!!!

18 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Because the same party tuned on Kavanaugh, screamed to the heavens and ruined a man's reputation for a claim that was a fractional sliver of the claims against Cuomo. And, moreover, completely ignored Tara Reade's claims against Biden. 

I call BS on this post.    We don't know if all of the claims against Kavanaugh were false or not -- the Trump Whitehouse didn't allow a full FBI investigation -- blocked by the Whitehouse:   https://www.whitehouse.senate.gov/news/release/after-new-details-on-kavanaugh-investigation-surface-senators-call-on-fbi-for-answers-on-handling-of-tip-line

Nearly two years later and after repeated follow-up requests, the FBI finally responded to Whitehouse and Coons’s questions. The June 30, 2021 letter from the FBI Office of Congressional Affairs revealed new information on the Kavanaugh investigation: that Justice Kavanaugh’s nomination "was the first time that the FBI set-up a tip line for a nominee undergoing Senate confirmation,” and that tip line received "over 4,500 tips, including phone calls and electronic submissions.” The FBI apparently pursued none of these tips. Instead, by the FBI’s own account, it merely "provided all relevant tips” to Trump’s Office of White House Counsel, the very office that had constrained and directed the limited investigation.

The fact is - Kavanuagh's demeanor in the hearing alone should have disqualified him.  

And is his reputation really "ruined"?  Seems like he is a Supreme Court Justice with a lifetime appointment.   Looks fine to me.  I'm sure he's worried about what some dems might think about him.  

The Republicans and McConnell brought much of this on -- by the BS they pulled with Obama's pick of Garland.   Kavanuagh is an ideologue -- a Federalist Society pick.  Garland was and is moderate.   I don't feel sorry for Kavanaugh's charmed life.  It is not ruined in the least.  

Love how this is a slap fest of how my side sucks less. How about we expect more out of the people we entrust to run the government from both sides. 

Norseman said it best though, this is tribalism at its finest. 

3 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Actually, no.  I bring her claim up only to point out the hypocrisy that is the Democrats stance on sexual harassments claims.  What made Blasey Ford's claims more viable that Tara Reade's?  

To be clear, I hate all this weaponization of sexual harassments claims, and I suspect it is all BS.  But, if you're going to create the fiasco you did against Kavanaugh and completely ignore the claims against Biden then you deserve all the criticism you get.  

What is your opinion then on the dozens of sexual  harassment claims against Trump?  The paying off of pornstars/models?  And yet, its okay -let's elect the guy?  C'mon.