August 17, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Both sides do bad stuff. But the bad stuff both sides do is not equivalent. Not even within normal parameters. Too many Republicans have just gone insane. There are definitely some good ones who are still fighting for the right policies, but too many are either not willing to speak up or enabling the crazies. Leadership is a two way street. Sometimes in a democracy it's right to let the people lead you. But sometimes you need to lead them. Cheney and Kinzinger are leading. Everybody else is either navel gazing or they're lemmings following Trump over the cliff where he's complaining about how he got screwed on the way down. Leading where? You despise Trump and so the only viable path to you is a sharp divergence from anything Trump. The problem is that that diversion very likely jettisons the pro Trump vote. I know everyone in here dismisses white working class, Trump voters as stupid and crazy but they support Trump because they think he looked out for them when nobody else would. Love em or hate em, they're motivated and they vote. The only winning path forward for Republicans is to diverge from Trump the candidate but to somehow keep Trump the fundraiser. Cheney and Kinzinger may be right on principal, but their trajectory has no viable future.
August 17, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, The Norseman said: Despite the constant, 4 year long drumbeat of "Russia Collusion" at every level of the Democrat party and every major US news media outlet. Yeah not even remotely close to what occurred, and is still occurring, in the aftermath of the 2020 election.
August 17, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, The Norseman said: You are conveniently leaving out the term "collusion", yet that's all we heard for 4 years. You know well that the accusations were far more than a Russian misinformation campaign swung a few votes red. I'm leaving this debate here because I can't get into another defense of Trump argument. I don't have the energy or the desire. But to act like Democrats just graciously waltzed into the Trump presidency without a word of real protest is disingenuous at best. The fact is, both of these parties scream, lie and drum up nonsense to try to save face and galvanize their base after a loss. Trump just took it to the next level...which was detestable. His opponent conceded the next day. And you definitely should leave this debate because the longer it goes on the more ridiculous you look. Hey, remember that time Hillary's lawyer suggested the election be settled by a "trial by combat"?
August 17, 20214 yr Author 1 hour ago, The Norseman said: Leading where? You despise Trump and so the only viable path to you is a sharp divergence from anything Trump. The problem is that that diversion very likely jettisons the pro Trump vote. I know everyone in here dismisses white working class, Trump voters as stupid and crazy but they support Trump because they think he looked out for them when nobody else would. Love em or hate em, they're motivated and they vote. The only winning path forward for Republicans is to diverge from Trump the candidate but to somehow keep Trump the fundraiser. Cheney and Kinzinger may be right on principal, but their trajectory has no viable future. They are telling people the truth. Loudly and clearly. That Trump lost. You don't get a healthy Republican party by entertaining seriously that Trump had an election stolen from him. If that means you take a short term hit in small donations so be it. Trump is a cancer. If you don't fully excise him he'll just come back, either himself or imitators. Edit: stupid autocorrect made excise -> excuse. Cancer is excised, not excused.
August 17, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: They are telling people the truth. Loudly and clearly. That Trump lost. You don't get a healthy Republican party by entertaining seriously that Trump had an election stolen from him. If that means you take a short term hit in small donations so be it. Trump is a cancer. If you don't fully excuse him he'll just come back, either himself or imitators.
August 17, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, The Norseman said: Leading where? You despise Trump and so the only viable path to you is a sharp divergence from anything Trump. The problem is that that diversion very likely jettisons the pro Trump vote. I know everyone in here dismisses white working class, Trump voters as stupid and crazy but they support Trump because they think he looked out for them when nobody else would. Love em or hate em, they're motivated and they vote. The only winning path forward for Republicans is to diverge from Trump the candidate but to somehow keep Trump the fundraiser. Cheney and Kinzinger may be right on principal, but their trajectory has no viable future. What's a matter @The Norseman ? Too chicken respond to this? Don't be such a puss: 1. Did Hillary concede (yes or no). If yes, when did she? 2. Did the Clinton campaign file lawsuits to try and overturn the election results? (yes or no) 3. Who appointed Mueller to look into collusion (technically conspiracy or other links)? Was it Clinton, Pelosi, or the Justice Dept under Trump? 4. Were dozens of people charged as a result of the Mueller investigation? Yes or no 5. If conspiracy (in the criminal sense) had been found, is that a basis for overturning an election? (hint - its not) Now do you see the difference? Yeah, I thought so. No balls.
August 18, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: They are telling people the truth. Loudly and clearly. That Trump lost. You don't get a healthy Republican party by entertaining seriously that Trump had an election stolen from him. If that means you take a short term hit in small donations so be it. Trump is a cancer. If you don't fully excise him he'll just come back, either himself or imitators. Edit: stupid autocorrect made excise -> excuse. Cancer is excised, not excused. You put the man, the policies and the legacy all in the same bucket. I think you can treat them as three different things. If you try to treat them all the same the Republican party remains fractured. The man...needs to go and cannot be the face of the party moving forward The policies...the country liked his America first approach...that needs to stay in some form. It sells. The Legacy...they need to find a way to show appreciation for his legacy, while not embracing his behavior. Keep him behind the scenes raising money but don't let him speak for the party.
August 18, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, The Norseman said: Just curious...but what was the democrats faith in elections after 2016? That is an easier claim to make when your candidate won the popular vote but still lost the election
August 18, 20214 yr 10 hours ago, The Norseman said: You put the man, the policies and the legacy all in the same bucket. I think you can treat them as three different things. If you try to treat them all the same the Republican party remains fractured. The man...needs to go and cannot be the face of the party moving forward The policies...the country liked his America first approach...that needs to stay in some form. It sells. The Legacy...they need to find a way to show appreciation for his legacy, while not embracing his behavior. Keep him behind the scenes raising money but don't let him speak for the party. That's the mistake you and your ilk are making about Trump. You can NOT differentiate between the man and his policies. They are one and the same. You can't get away with supporting a grifter con man, just because he may try to implement some policies you like (face of the party or not). He tried to undermine our democracy -- he should have ZERO places at the table. Trump is who he is - he won't change whether behind the scenes or otherwise. You need to discard him completely due to his criminal and corrupt behavior. Your claim to focus only on his "policies" does not give you a get out of jail free card. Trump actually has no policies. He just does/says whatever he thinks will play well with the base. He was pro abortion -- oh wait now he's against it. What do you think would have happened had Ivanka got pregnant when she was 15?
August 18, 20214 yr 16 hours ago, The Norseman said: Leading where? You despise Trump and so the only viable path to you is a sharp divergence from anything Trump. The problem is that that diversion very likely jettisons the pro Trump vote. I know everyone in here dismisses white working class, Trump voters as stupid and crazy but they support Trump because they think he looked out for them when nobody else would. Love em or hate em, they're motivated and they vote. The only winning path forward for Republicans is to diverge from Trump the candidate but to somehow keep Trump the fundraiser. Cheney and Kinzinger may be right on principal, but their trajectory has no viable future. Did Trump really look out for the white working class? Nah - he preyed on their fears and stoked division. How did that help them?
August 18, 20214 yr 18 hours ago, The Norseman said: Leading where? You despise Trump and so the only viable path to you is a sharp divergence from anything Trump. The problem is that that diversion very likely jettisons the pro Trump vote. I know everyone in here dismisses white working class, Trump voters as stupid and crazy but they support Trump because they think he looked out for them when nobody else would. Love em or hate em, they're motivated and they vote. The only winning path forward for Republicans is to diverge from Trump the candidate but to somehow keep Trump the fundraiser. Cheney and Kinzinger may be right on principal, but their trajectory has no viable future. I agree with all of this. Cheney and Kinzinger will be lucky to keep their seats. The GOP is the party of Trump.
August 18, 20214 yr 16 hours ago, The Norseman said: You put the man, the policies and the legacy all in the same bucket. I think you can treat them as three different things. If you try to treat them all the same the Republican party remains fractured. The man...needs to go and cannot be the face of the party moving forward The policies...the country liked his America first approach...that needs to stay in some form. It sells. The Legacy...they need to find a way to show appreciation for his legacy, while not embracing his behavior. Keep him behind the scenes raising money but don't let him speak for the party. He drank their milkshake ages ago. You are nuts if you think they can reverse the flow to anywhere other than his personal coffers at this point.
August 18, 20214 yr Author 42 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: We were told not to focus on one poll. I imagine if we took a poll after Charlottesville Hillary would win the popular vote. Oh, wait.
August 18, 20214 yr 41 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: We were told not to focus on one poll. I’d like to see the poll from the southern district of NY. What’s taking so long ?
August 18, 20214 yr 35 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: He drank their milkshake ages ago. You are nuts if you think they can reverse the flow to anywhere other than his personal coffers at this point. I see now that this thread was only started so that the echo chamber could group fantasize about the utter downfall of the Republican party thanks to Trump. Carry on.
August 18, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I see now that this thread was only started so that the echo chamber could group fantasize about the utter downfall of the Republican party thanks to Trump. Carry on. Thanks, we will! See you in December, norse.
August 18, 20214 yr 18 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I see now that this thread was only started so that the echo chamber could group fantasize about the utter downfall of the Republican party thanks to Trump. Carry on. Uhm, ok? Are you disputing that Trump has completely hijacked the GOP fundraising machine?
August 18, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, Talkingbirds said: WTF Rasmussen had Trump ahead in every 2016 poll iirc and was the only polling service to put Trump's approval rating consistently over 50% throughout his presidency.
August 19, 20214 yr Lauren Boebert conveniently forgot to disclose her husband makes half a million dollars consulting for an energy firm, and she used campaign funds improperly. <br> No surprise, she is a criminal:
August 19, 20214 yr 18 hours ago, Talkingbirds said: WTF I firmly believe if Trump had no turned his own voters away from mail in voting, along with telling them it was rigged, he would have one easily.
August 19, 20214 yr 17 hours ago, The Norseman said: I see now that this thread was only started so that the echo chamber could group fantasize about the utter downfall of the Republican party thanks to Trump. Carry on. What's a matter @The Norseman ? Too chicken respond to this? Don't be such a puss: 1. Did Hillary concede (yes or no). If yes, when did she? 2. Did the Clinton campaign file lawsuits to try and overturn the election results? (yes or no) 3. Who appointed Mueller to look into collusion (technically conspiracy or other links)? Was it Clinton, Pelosi, or the Justice Dept under Trump? 4. Were dozens of people charged as a result of the Mueller investigation? Yes or no 5. If conspiracy (in the criminal sense) had been found, is that a basis for overturning an election? (hint - its not) Now do you see the difference? Yeah, I thought so. No balls.
August 19, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I firmly believe if Trump had no turned his own voters away from mail in voting, along with telling them it was rigged, he would have one easily. No. That's playing into the narrative. Trump didn't lose because of mail-in voting. He lost because of his evident lack of leadership and chaos once his first real crisis happened: Covid He got lucky in the first few years of his administration. No really gigantic crisis to handle. You can't handle a real crisis with bluster, lack of expertise, and being divisive.
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