Back up QB moving forward

[Random Reglar]

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If Trask is there in the third I'd almost put money on Howie making that pick, if he's there top of the 4th I guarantee it.

Makes sense.  Brian Johnson.   I wouldn't be surprised to see some players from the Florida Gators offense drafted.  Brian Johnson, QB coach and former OC of the Gators, really should have  a great idea about how good these guys are.    Pitts, Toney, Trask all might be possibilities, and others. 

[eagle45]

Isn't Suds a perfect backup?  He's cheap.  Hurts figures to help us out plenty with draft position on his own, but we can always turn to Suds if the #1 overall pick is in doubt.

[EaglePhan1986]

If I was GM my plan would be to sign Brissett or Tyrod and say there will be an open competition between him and Hurts in camp. Then, if I see a QB I love in the draft, take him, try like hell to trade Hurts, redshirt the top draft pick with the plan on starting Brissett or Tyrod for the full 16 games. 
 

My goal would be to get a late day 3 2021 pick and 2022 3rd rounder for Hurts. If I was the Ravens or Bills I’d make that deal. 

[Penn7980]

If the new coaching staff is as good as advertised, pick a QB in middle or late rounds and develop him.  That is what a true "QB Factory" should perform.  Going for one at #6, the guy comes in already with good credential and the coaches can't showcase their craft and claim credits.

Assuming they go with Hurts as starter, they need a vet as #2.  Sudfeld does not have what it takes and his contract ends now.  Good chance the new coaches will go with someone they are familiar and no need to get him up on speed.  Like Daniel when Doug first got the HC job. 

[CheesesteakNBeer]

2 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Makes sense.  Brian Johnson.   I wouldn't be surprised to see some players from the Florida Gators offense drafted.  Brian Johnson, QB coach and former OC of the Gators, really should have  a great idea about how good these guys are.    Pitts, Toney, Trask all might be possibilities, and others. 

 

1 hour ago, Penn7980 said:

If the new coaching staff is as good as advertised, pick a QB in middle or late rounds and develop him.  That is what a true "QB Factory" should perform.  Going for one at #6, the guy comes in already with good credential and the coaches can't showcase their craft and claim credits.

Assuming they go with Hurts as starter, they need a vet as #2.  Sudfeld does not have what it takes and his contract ends now.  Good chance the new coaches will go with someone they are familiar and no need to get him up on speed.  Like Daniel when Doug first got the HC job. 

🤔 Kyle Trask in the 3rd?? Intrigued.

[Random Reglar]

5 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

If I was GM my plan would be to sign Brissett or Tyrod and say there will be an open competition between him and Hurts in camp. Then, if I see a QB I love in the draft, take him, try like hell to trade Hurts, redshirt the top draft pick with the plan on starting Brissett or Tyrod for the full 16 games. 
 

My goal would be to get a late day 3 2021 pick and 2022 3rd rounder for Hurts. If I was the Ravens or Bills I’d make that deal. 

I like some of that.  Brissett and Tyrod and Easton Stick are all choices in the same category - QBs who have worked with Siri or Shane or both.  All 3 would make sense.  Easton Stick, who was with the Chargers the last 2 years,  on a rookie deal, costing less than $1 Million,  same size and speed as Hurts,  both running QBs in college.  And Easton Stick replaced Carson Wentz at NDSU and Stick is the one who has the NDSU records.  Not Wentz, not Lance, but Stick.   Best NDSU QB,  running QB like Hurst, worked with Shane for 2 years,  on a late round rookie deal.   He basically fills the same basic role as day 3 pick,  (I like Sam Ehlinger in that role, also a running QB, big, but probably not as fast as Hurst or Stick.) 

I like Hurst, and prefer running QBs.  And the Eagles have the players on the roster who could do something great with running QBs,  something innovative.  They can put Hurst out there, Greg Ward Jr, Khalil Tate,  Tyree Jackson and, maybe, Mailata out there, that's 5 of the 6.  Each of Ward Tate and Jackson can be tasked with some throwing,   their throwing abilites would be analyzed, and the throwing things they do well could be noted.  Have them do those things, occasionally.  Ward Tate and Jackson are all good at running out of the backfield,  Jackson has great TE size and speed.  I just pretty much like these guys and think that they could do QB, do their other positions, and do the innovative hybrid stuff. and I would want to see the innovative hybrid stuff,  the Eagles win games with that kind of stuff.

On the other hand, can't ignore the fact that both Siri and Shane worked most of the careers, collectively, last 7 years, with Philip Rivers.  They spent 4 years together, with Philip Rivers, and then Siri left for the Colts and Rivers joined him there.

Both the HC Siri and the OC Shane worked with Philip Rivers most of the last 7 years.    Based on that,  would you think they would have the most success with A) Philip Rivers, who could be unretired at some point this season to join the Eagles B) Someone who they see as someone they can shape into Philip Rivers, perhaps one who had great success in college being shaped by the former OC and current Eagles QB coach.  C)  A QB you've never coached, who is 1-3 in 4 starts, a short, running QB, when you're used to coaching 6'5 230+ pound QBs, exclusively.    If you asked Siri and Shane and Brian Johnson what the dream combo is,  it's Philip Rivers out of retirement, and Kyle Trask,  6'5 240.  Philip Rivers would be extremely expensive.

So, you have this scenario.  Very cap strapped Eagles.   Have 1 QB right now,  Hurts, running QB,  someone that Brian Johnson definitely can work with.  He was Dak Prescott's QB coach in college.  Also worked with D'eriq King at Houston.   So, with Brian Johnson, they have someone who works well with running QBs, and at Florida used players like Toney in innovative ways, wildcat QB, etc.    I think Brian Johnson is capable of developing the innovative run first offense with multiple running QBs.  That's what's on the roster.  Many formerly star WRs are getting cut.  Greg Ward is on the field a lot already,  I'd like to see him throwing and running more.  He plays slot, right, so have him in motion,  jet or orbit,  get him the ball running outside with the threat to throw.  1 read and run.    There is nothing on the Greg Ward Highlights that makes you think he can't take a pitch, run right, and throw or continue running without even thinking about a throw,   you would think that definitely would work.  So do that.  What you might find is that he's a pretty good QB. Anyway,  let's say Johnson builds this offense, with players he already has,  and let's say the Eagles use it, and it works.    Wouldn't there  still be some pull towards  Philip Rivers or a Philip Rivers type QB?   It's like,   the Eagles really could do this neat thing that I'd like to see happen,  but it's really hard not to see that what would make the absolute most sense, based on resumes, is Kyle Trask,  6'5 240, coached by Brian Johnson,  and had great stats and finished 4th in the Heisman voting.    If what I wanted was Kyle Trask, and I wanted to make sure that Kyle Trask worked well,  I would hire the OC from his college.  And the Eagles did that.    So, if they end up doing that,  it would look like they had a plan and implemented it.  So, I'm thinking Kyle Trask.    Maybe take him at the Lamar spot.   Trade up to 1/32 to get the 5th year.   So, then you have a QB controversy, but this could be handled in an innovative way.  I think that you could build the innovative run first offense with the running QBs, as great as that can be, and you build it in such a way that when you drop Kyle Trask into it, push Jalen Hurts back and to the left or something, and taking some other player or 2 off the field (more blocking types) and add another WR.      Something like that sounds good to me.

In theory, that's sustainable,  it sounds good to me,  but I can't help thinking that what we end up is like the Chargers with Philip Rivers or the Colts with Philip Rivers.  Another option is Jacoby Brissett. 

I'm thinking
Hurts
Taylor (Chargers) / Stick (Chargers) / Brissett (Colts)
Kyle Trask

And, as the season goes along,   Trask is added more and more.   I don't really like the whole "it's your team" and "now its your team"  thing.   Teams can use move QBs in and out of the game.    The Colts and Siri did use Brissett as a short yardage rusher instead of Rivers.  I prefer the run first offense with running QBs,  but you can drop a pocket QB in there as one of the things the run first offense can do.    It makes sense. 

[Random Reglar]

5 hours ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

 

🤔 Kyle Trask in the 3rd?? Intrigued.

I would guess trade the 2nd up to the first to get the 5 years.

It seems really likely to me that they got Brian Johnson because Kyle Trask + running QBs on his resume.

And seriously, Kyle Trask threw 43 TDs last year, and Brian Johnson was the offensive coordinator of that.  And he's in a position to take 1 QB and the 3 leading receivers.   Taking all the players and the coordinator, it just seems like that might be something that works immediately.  It's proven to work in college,  and it should work immediately, in the NFL, but maybe not quite as easily as in college.   So, you can fuse together Pitts, 1st round,  Trask 1/32, Toney late 2nd,   The tall WR on day 3   with Hurst, and the run first offense.    Probably all that is overkill, and probably the Eagles want to address a diverse bunch of needs through the draft. 

[Outlaw]

7 hours ago, CheesesteakNBeer said:

 

🤔 Kyle Trask in the 3rd?? Intrigued.

Trask in the 3rd should be a no brainer for them...but I don’t foresee a way he drops to R3. Even for him to be there at 38 for us may be shocking. 

[Random Reglar]

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

Trask in the 3rd should be a no brainer for them...but I don’t foresee a way he drops to R3. Even for him to be there at 38 for us may be shocking. 

Trade up to the 1st like the Ravens did for Lamar.

I'd prefer, myself,  all running QBs.  Hurst, and  they could get both Taylor and Stick from the Chargers.   It would be the Chargers QB room from last year, with the Chargers OC as the Eagles OC.  All 3 are the same size and the same weight.  It would be Hurst instead of Herbert.   The Chargers could get Sudfeld as a tall backup for the tall Herbert, perhaps?  There are many other similar permutations of that,  with Jacoby Brissett for one. 

But it just seems to make sense that the Eagles just might want the QB that the new QB coach just was coaching at QB?   It seems like such an obvious choice that it would be the de facto logical choice if they're going to take a QB high. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

15 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Isn't Suds a perfect backup?  He's cheap.  Hurts figures to help us out plenty with draft position on his own, but we can always turn to Suds if the #1 overall pick is in doubt.

Doesn't Suds have an even higher opinion of himself than Chase Daniel? Sees himself competing for a starting role somewhere.

 

5 hours ago, Outlaw said:

Trask in the 3rd should be a no brainer for them...but I don’t foresee a way he drops to R3. Even for him to be there at 38 for us may be shocking. 

in my opinion he was nailed on for someone taking a flier on him somewhere from late 1st to mid 2nd round until the game against LSU and then he curled out that performance in the Cotton Bowl, I think that added to the scouts obsession on outright arm strength in QB's means he'll drop.

[EaglePhan1986]

7 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

I like some of that.  Brissett and Tyrod and Easton Stick are all choices in the same category - QBs who have worked with Siri or Shane or both.  All 3 would make sense.  Easton Stick, who was with the Chargers the last 2 years,  on a rookie deal, costing less than $1 Million,  same size and speed as Hurts,  both running QBs in college.  And Easton Stick replaced Carson Wentz at NDSU and Stick is the one who has the NDSU records.  Not Wentz, not Lance, but Stick.   Best NDSU QB,  running QB like Hurst, worked with Shane for 2 years,  on a late round rookie deal.   He basically fills the same basic role as day 3 pick,  (I like Sam Ehlinger in that role, also a running QB, big, but probably not as fast as Hurst or Stick.) 

I like Hurst, and prefer running QBs.  And the Eagles have the players on the roster who could do something great with running QBs,  something innovative.  They can put Hurst out there, Greg Ward Jr, Khalil Tate,  Tyree Jackson and, maybe, Mailata out there, that's 5 of the 6.  Each of Ward Tate and Jackson can be tasked with some throwing,   their throwing abilites would be analyzed, and the throwing things they do well could be noted.  Have them do those things, occasionally.  Ward Tate and Jackson are all good at running out of the backfield,  Jackson has great TE size and speed.  I just pretty much like these guys and think that they could do QB, do their other positions, and do the innovative hybrid stuff. and I would want to see the innovative hybrid stuff,  the Eagles win games with that kind of stuff.

On the other hand, can't ignore the fact that both Siri and Shane worked most of the careers, collectively, last 7 years, with Philip Rivers.  They spent 4 years together, with Philip Rivers, and then Siri left for the Colts and Rivers joined him there.

Both the HC Siri and the OC Shane worked with Philip Rivers most of the last 7 years.    Based on that,  would you think they would have the most success with A) Philip Rivers, who could be unretired at some point this season to join the Eagles B) Someone who they see as someone they can shape into Philip Rivers, perhaps one who had great success in college being shaped by the former OC and current Eagles QB coach.  C)  A QB you've never coached, who is 1-3 in 4 starts, a short, running QB, when you're used to coaching 6'5 230+ pound QBs, exclusively.    If you asked Siri and Shane and Brian Johnson what the dream combo is,  it's Philip Rivers out of retirement, and Kyle Trask,  6'5 240.  Philip Rivers would be extremely expensive.

So, you have this scenario.  Very cap strapped Eagles.   Have 1 QB right now,  Hurts, running QB,  someone that Brian Johnson definitely can work with.  He was Dak Prescott's QB coach in college.  Also worked with D'eriq King at Houston.   So, with Brian Johnson, they have someone who works well with running QBs, and at Florida used players like Toney in innovative ways, wildcat QB, etc.    I think Brian Johnson is capable of developing the innovative run first offense with multiple running QBs.  That's what's on the roster.  Many formerly star WRs are getting cut.  Greg Ward is on the field a lot already,  I'd like to see him throwing and running more.  He plays slot, right, so have him in motion,  jet or orbit,  get him the ball running outside with the threat to throw.  1 read and run.    There is nothing on the Greg Ward Highlights that makes you think he can't take a pitch, run right, and throw or continue running without even thinking about a throw,   you would think that definitely would work.  So do that.  What you might find is that he's a pretty good QB. Anyway,  let's say Johnson builds this offense, with players he already has,  and let's say the Eagles use it, and it works.    Wouldn't there  still be some pull towards  Philip Rivers or a Philip Rivers type QB?   It's like,   the Eagles really could do this neat thing that I'd like to see happen,  but it's really hard not to see that what would make the absolute most sense, based on resumes, is Kyle Trask,  6'5 240, coached by Brian Johnson,  and had great stats and finished 4th in the Heisman voting.    If what I wanted was Kyle Trask, and I wanted to make sure that Kyle Trask worked well,  I would hire the OC from his college.  And the Eagles did that.    So, if they end up doing that,  it would look like they had a plan and implemented it.  So, I'm thinking Kyle Trask.    Maybe take him at the Lamar spot.   Trade up to 1/32 to get the 5th year.   So, then you have a QB controversy, but this could be handled in an innovative way.  I think that you could build the innovative run first offense with the running QBs, as great as that can be, and you build it in such a way that when you drop Kyle Trask into it, push Jalen Hurts back and to the left or something, and taking some other player or 2 off the field (more blocking types) and add another WR.      Something like that sounds good to me.

In theory, that's sustainable,  it sounds good to me,  but I can't help thinking that what we end up is like the Chargers with Philip Rivers or the Colts with Philip Rivers.  Another option is Jacoby Brissett. 

I'm thinking
Hurts
Taylor (Chargers) / Stick (Chargers) / Brissett (Colts)
Kyle Trask

And, as the season goes along,   Trask is added more and more.   I don't really like the whole "it's your team" and "now its your team"  thing.   Teams can use move QBs in and out of the game.    The Colts and Siri did use Brissett as a short yardage rusher instead of Rivers.  I prefer the run first offense with running QBs,  but you can drop a pocket QB in there as one of the things the run first offense can do.    It makes sense. 

My morning poop isn’t long enough to read that 

[Traveler Vic]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:44 AM, eagle45 said:

Isn't Suds a perfect backup?  He's cheap.  Hurts figures to help us out plenty with draft position on his own, but we can always turn to Suds if the #1 overall pick is in doubt.

We are Broke. It depends on how much Suds wants. With all the QB questions around the league, he may find a better situation somewhere also. But considering his performance during the last game..he may entirely choose to stay. ?

[Traveler Vic]

On 2/23/2021 at 2:54 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Doesn't Suds have an even higher opinion of himself than Chase Daniel? Sees himself competing for a starting role somewhere.

I know for a fact that he did have that high opinion. But then he was inserted into the last game the Eagles played..and he flat out sucked. So maybe he will stay...if we can meet his salary.

[Talonblood]

Hurts will be the backup after Lowie drafts a QB at #6 and becomes the starter. 

[eaglesfan0075]

On 2/22/2021 at 9:25 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If Trask is there in the third I'd almost put money on Howie making that pick, if he's there top of the 4th I guarantee it.

I have a feeling that he's their target too. If new QB coach Brian Johnson makes a strong endorsement regarding Trask, I expect the Eagles to have him high on their board. He could go as high as round 2 though, in a weak draft class. Definitely a reach with our 2nd round pick. In the 3rd round though, I can see it happening.

[nipples]

On 2/22/2021 at 2:32 PM, Random Reglar said:

Makes sense.  Brian Johnson.   I wouldn't be surprised to see some players from the Florida Gators offense drafted.  Brian Johnson, QB coach and former OC of the Gators, really should have  a great idea about how good these guys are.    Pitts, Toney, Trask all might be possibilities, and others. 

Just give me Pitts and I’m good. 

[nipples]

8 hours ago, Talonblood said:

Hurts will be the backup after Lowie drafts a QB at #6 and becomes the starter. 

Do you think he actually goes back to the NDSU well though? Because I think Fields and Wilson are both gone before 6. So it’s either Lance or a reach for Jones if he goes QB at 6. 

[FitzIsAtTheAirport]

15 hours ago, Talonblood said:

Hurts will be the backup after Lowie drafts a QB at #6 and becomes the starter. 

Is that Lurie and Howie's lovechild?

[Talonblood]

16 hours ago, nipples said:

Do you think he actually goes back to the NDSU well though? Because I think Fields and Wilson are both gone before 6. So it’s either Lance or a reach for Jones if he goes QB at 6. 

With Howie, ANYTHING is possible- even the worst choice available.

[Talonblood]

10 hours ago, FitzIsAtTheAirport said:

Is that Lurie and Howie's lovechild?

That's the 2 headed beast that is killing the team the last 3 years.

[Random Reglar]

20 hours ago, nipples said:

Just give me Pitts and I’m good. 

Pitts having great numbers at the pro day and the Eagles taking him is the best case scenario I think right now.

Not impressed by the "top" QBs except Lawrence,  not impressed by Chase or Smith.   Pretty impressed by Toney though, and he's a top 2nd kind of player.   It seems that Toney has some route running skills in addition to being versatile weapon.  He looks much better as an open field runner than Chase or Smith.    I think that if the Eagles get Pitts in the first and Toney in the 2nd, they are getting more than if they went Chase/Smith in the first and who exactly? in the 2nd.   You get a big and fast TE/WR and a shifty and explosive slotback who can catch, run and throw, and is getting better at routes.  Chase and Smith are both 1st round WRs on teams with 2 first round WRs and 1 first round QB.  Smiths QBs have gone in the first round twice (assuming Mac Jones) and the second round once.  Chase's QB was the overall #1 pick last year. 

Seems to me the draft should contain these things.

3)  Dolphins -  Smith.   Because Tua.
5) Bengals - Chase.  Because Burrow.

It is already known that Tua to Smith works very well.   The Dolphins just drafted Tua very high last year because Tua to Smith works well.  Tua to anybody else might not work well, but Tua to Smith does work well

It is already known that Burrow to Chase works very well.  Same thing,  Bengals drafted Burrow high because Burrow to Chase works well. 

This seems like it should be automatic.

With the Jets at 2,  I'd think that Fields is the top pick out of the rest.  He won a lot of games against good teams.  His lowest passer rating, out of 3 years,  was 173.7.  67 career TDs,  9 INTs.  His rushing stats are not on par with the best Ohio State QBs,  but 484 yards is good.  Look closely at the pro day numbers for the 40 times and the 10 splits and the rest. 

In 2019,  lost to the #1 pick Lawrence in the semi finals of the national championship.  In 2020, beat the #1 pick Lawrence in the semi finals before losing to Alabama, who has 2 first round receivers and a later first round QB. 

3rd and 7th in the Heisman voting the last 2 years. 

Seems like the reasonable choice for the Jets at 2.

1) Jaguars Lawrence
2) Jets Fields
3) Dolphins Smith
4) Falcons - QB or Trade Down with QB wanting team or Sewell?
5) Bengals Chase
6) Eagles Pitts (Smith before Chase because familiarity with Hurts, Pitts has familiarity with Brian Johnson)

other things that seem reasonable and right. 

18) Dolphins Mac Jones.   If former Alabama QB Tua can't throw to former Alabama WR, Heisman Winner Smith, former Alabama QB Mac Jones can.  Or everyone gets fired.

2nd round)  Eagles -  trade up to bottom first - Toney - because Brian Johnson

3rd round) Eagles - trade up to mid late 2nd - Trask - because Brian Johnson

All them Florida Gators + Brian Johnson,  with Jalen Hurts,  Pitts and Toney are the right kind of weapons for Hurts,   similar to Tyree Jackson and Khalil Tate, but they've played those positions before, as opposed to being projected to be good like that.  Tyree Jackson is 6'7 249 4.59 combine 40 and Kyle Pitts is 6'6 239.  We don't know what Pitts 40 time is, but we would hope that it's substantially better than Jackson's 4.59.  And this is comparing  combine numbers and pro day numbers.   There might be someone in the Eagles office who thinks  "we have Tyree Jackson at 6'7 249 and 4.59, and a general top 5% sparq for a QB,  and we got him as a fa for pretty cheap,  why again is this slightly smaller slightly faster one worth a 6?"   and then maybe someone else says "because he's proven to be good at catching the ball, running routes and generally playing TE/WR."   Same basic argument can be make with Toney,  Greg Ward Jr (who is proven) and Khalil Tate (who is not). 

Back up QB moving forward (as I notice that nothing I'm saying is relevant to back up QB moving forward).   A running QB veteran from the Chargers (Tyrod Taylor or Easton Stick) or the Colts (Jacoby Brissett)  seem the the most natural fits.  Brissett seems to be an interesting type, as he's a good runner (especially at short yardage) and he's the body type similar to Philip Rivers.  HC Siri had pretty decent results with him in 2019.   The right price for him at this point would probably be $5 Million or below, despite the fact that he was paid $15 M last year.  Mediocre QB, then backup QB,  tends to cause a reduction in price.  The problem is is that the Eagles might not have the money.  Easton Stick would be obtained in a trade, unless the Chargers cut him.  He's on his rookie deal so he'd be cheap. 

[Bwestbrook36]

22 hours ago, nipples said:

Just give me Pitts and I’m good. 

Thanks for replying to him, now we have to scroll through an 8 paragraph post for the 100th time about running QBs 

[Random Reglar]

10 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Thanks for replying to him, now we have to scroll through an 8 paragraph post for the 100th time about running QBs 

Yeah, but it wasn't about running QBs at all, It was 2021 draft talk and a brief mention of who the backup QBs might be, with the focus on Chargers and Colts QBs because Siri and Shane.  Some reference, but not much, was made to the fact that Hurts is a running QB, which is obvious, and the need or desirability of having a running QB backup in order to preserve the run plays if no Hurts.

But mostly predictions about the first few picks and how those picks just make sense.

1) Lawrence - Jaguars
2) Fields - Jets
3) Smith - Dolphins
4) ? trade down - Falcons
5) Chase - Bengals
6) PItts - Eagles

18) Dolphins - Mac Jones / Weddle

2nd round Eagles w/ trade up - Toney
3rd round Eagles w/ trade up - Trask

[T-1000]

18 hours ago, FitzIsAtTheAirport said:

Is that Lurie and Howie's lovechild?

No, it's a really stupid FN nickname some nerds on TATE came up with.

[Vee]

3 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Yeah, but it wasn't about running QBs at all, It was 2021 draft talk and a brief mention of who the backup QBs might be, with the focus on Chargers and Colts QBs because Siri and Shane.  Some reference, but not much, was made to the fact that Hurts is a running QB, which is obvious, and the need or desirability of having a running QB backup in order to preserve the run plays if no Hurts.

But mostly predictions about the first few picks and how those picks just make sense.

1) Lawrence - Jaguars
2) Fields - Jets
3) Smith - Dolphins
4) ? trade down - Falcons
5) Chase - Bengals
6) PItts - Eagles

18) Dolphins - Mac Jones / Weddle

2nd round Eagles w/ trade up - Toney
3rd round Eagles w/ trade up - Trask

You don't think Atlanta will be drafting a QB?  Ryan is finished.  They will not be trading down.  They will pull the trigger on a QB at 4.