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Back up QB moving forward


T-1000
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59 minutes ago, Vee said:

You don't think Atlanta will be drafting a QB?  Ryan is finished.  They will not be trading down.  They will pull the trigger on a QB at 4.

I think it would depend on if the QB is left at 4. I don't think they draft one just to draft one. 

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33 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I think it would depend on if the QB is left at 4. I don't think they draft one just to draft one. 

Considering they have ignored that position and Matt Ryan plays like he's 55 years old, they're gonna have to.

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6 minutes ago, Vee said:

Considering they have ignored that position and Matt Ryan plays like he's 55 years old, they're gonna have to.

His numbers really haven't changed at all he was actually a little better then the year before. It's not like he's out there throwing 1 pick after another could. Can they do better than ryan? Absolutely but, I don't think they need to be desperate

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1 hour ago, Vee said:

You don't think Atlanta will be drafting a QB?  Ryan is finished.  They will not be trading down.  They will pull the trigger on a QB at 4.

Well, that's the one I have a question mark.  Really haven't thought about it.

Before I say that the Falcons are going to take a QB, I'd say that the 4 pick would be used on a QB.  Either the Falcons use it or they trade down.

But, maybe the Falcons want Sewell, or have identified who the best defense is.

It's not clear to me that Matt Ryan is done.  There is Brady, winning the Super Bowl at 43.  Ryan is 35.  Brady is of course better.  Look at Stafford, Ryan, Brady.  Stafford, youngest,  by 3 years I believe,  has won no playoff games in his career,  Ryan has gotten to the Super Bowl,  Brady the oldest wins the Super Bowl half the time.  It's possible that Atlanta thinks "our guy is old, but, in our division,  he's the 3rd oldest,  those QBs are out the door before our guy, and maybe we have a little window there when Brady and Brees are both gone"    Most of the time,  teams stick with their QB, even if they're expensive and don't win as much as they'd like.

But, yeah, maybe the Falcons take a QB because the media wants to find a top spot for the guy from FCS who played one year and the guy from BYU who was 4-5 in 2019 with a 130.8 passer rating.      I mention that I expect the Jets to take Fields. 

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2 hours ago, Vee said:

You don't think Atlanta will be drafting a QB?  Ryan is finished.  They will not be trading down.  They will pull the trigger on a QB at 4.

 

So I went and researched the Falcons.  And their new coach is Arthur Smith.  And Arthur Smith was the OC of the Titans,  and before that,  was on the Titans for years.

So,  if they were going to move away from Ryan,  which might be something that new coach might want to do,  or, simply to add another QB to hedge the bets,  they might go with Mariota, who is still with the Raiders, but they could trade for him.  That seems like something they could do.  Having Mariota didn't rattle Derek Carr too much,  It shouldn't rattle Ryan, and if they want to go with Mariota, they can do so, and if not, then not, which gives them flexibility.  You don't draft a QB with the 4 pick and give the starter 5 more years.  Theoretically, you could give Mariota $10 M a year for 5 years to be Ryan's backup. 

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6 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Pitts having great numbers at the pro day and the Eagles taking him is the best case scenario I think right now.

Not impressed by the "top" QBs except Lawrence,  not impressed by Chase or Smith.   Pretty impressed by Toney though, and he's a top 2nd kind of player.   It seems that Toney has some route running skills in addition to being versatile weapon.  He looks much better as an open field runner than Chase or Smith.    I think that if the Eagles get Pitts in the first and Toney in the 2nd, they are getting more than if they went Chase/Smith in the first and who exactly? in the 2nd.   You get a big and fast TE/WR and a shifty and explosive slotback who can catch, run and throw, and is getting better at routes.  Chase and Smith are both 1st round WRs on teams with 2 first round WRs and 1 first round QB.  Smiths QBs have gone in the first round twice (assuming Mac Jones) and the second round once.  Chase's QB was the overall #1 pick last year. 

Seems to me the draft should contain these things.

3)  Dolphins -  Smith.   Because Tua.
5) Bengals - Chase.  Because Burrow.

It is already known that Tua to Smith works very well.   The Dolphins just drafted Tua very high last year because Tua to Smith works well.  Tua to anybody else might not work well, but Tua to Smith does work well

It is already known that Burrow to Chase works very well.  Same thing,  Bengals drafted Burrow high because Burrow to Chase works well. 

This seems like it should be automatic.

 

Im sorry are you really saying the BOTH teams with young (hopefully franchise) QBs are going to completely ignore an elite talent (Sewell) at a position of greater importance (OT). A player which will ensure that their Qb takes less hits over the next 5+ years. I just cant agree... maybe one of these teams pairs their QB with some guy they knew in college, but it is insane to assume that both will take this route. What about areas of need (I can think of 2-3 areas the Bengals need before considering receiver)? What about BPA? What about trading back? 

I just dont think it is as automatic as you make it out to be

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Just now, QBhunter58 said:

Im sorry are you really saying the BOTH teams with young (hopefully franchise) QBs are going to completely ignore an elite talent (Sewell) at a position of greater importance (OT). A player which will ensure that their Qb takes less hits over the next 5+ years. I just cant agree... maybe one of these teams pairs their QB with some guy they knew in college, but it is insane to assume that both will take this route. What about areas of need (I can think of 2-3 areas the Bengals need before considering receiver)? What about BPA? What about trading back? 

I just dont think it is as automatic as you make it out to be

Well things that should be automatic in the NFL,  common sense, slam dunk, often aren't.   So, I'm not saying this definitely will happen.

The most important position is QB.    The success or failure of QBs often relies on WRs.  In some cases,  the same team has a great (or seemingly great) QB and the same at WR.  Sometimes you're looking at the outcomes, and you don't know if it was the QB or the WR who was most responsible for the outcomes.  You just want the outcomes.

Barrow didn't win a lot of games and then he got hurt.    The Bengals want the LSU outcome,  based on last year, and the injury,  I'd think they'd want to do the thing that makes the Mercedes gas wheelbarrow work perfectly.   The Bengals lost the gas cap to the Mercedes wheelbarrow.   They went on ebay and saw a bunch of wheelbarrow gas caps.  Some said "fits perfectly the LSU 2019 model"  but they were very expensive.  Others said "fits all domestic and imported wheelbarrows and lawnmowers (some fitment issues reported)"  Those were really cheap.  They bought the cheap one,  and, technically, the wheelbarrow works,  but it isn't working well,  it misfires,  it stalls.   Once the wheelbarrow blew a tire, and you gotta have that tire working,  it's a critical part,  but, it's easy to go get a replacement tire for the wheelbarrow,  It might be expensive,  but the tires are of a standard size.  So,  whichever one you buy,  important tires,  they'll all work, the cheaper one might not last as long.    But the gas cap,   even though the cheap one technically works,  and the cheap one is much less than the original OEM part,  it's just not tight enough,  and the engine works,  but,  misfiring, stalling,  performing badly.  Performing so badly that you'd want to replace the whole wheelbarrow.  Well instead of replacing the whole wheelbarrow,  replace the gas cap with the seemingly pointlessly expensive OEM gas cap,  because that OEM gas cap is proven to work, and not just what the guy on ebay is saying is going to work.     The Bengals need the OEM Chase part, gold plated, which is guaranteed to work with the wheelbarrow, the Dolphins need a replacement Smith valve (or the Weddle valve) for the TuaMachine 2021. 

Precise fitment,  guaranteed to work for the expensive machine that you want to work perfectly.    Chase is proven to work with Burrow.  Smith is proven to work with Tua.

These are some of the problems with the QBs who are not the big runners.  You don't need an unusually specific specialty part to make your running QB run right.  You might want to make upgrades,  increase the horsepower of the oline,  but all the parts you need are available.  But you can measure the QBs speed and have a good expectation that you're going to get that speed.  The outcome is not reliant on a specialty WR part.    

Oh, and it's not "some guy they knew in college"    Its the guy who was catching the TD passes on the video that they watched when they were making their decision.  They weren't looking at a video of one person, they were looking at 2.   Barrow was really only good for one year.  And Chase (and Jefferson) were the receivers he was throwing to.  Jefferson did better than Barrow did last year.  It may be that Barrow, with good coaching and 2 specific good receivers was able to do much better than he usually does. 

These WRs are proven to work with this particular QB.  WRs are far less fungible than LTs.    It may very well be that either Burrow or Hurts can't function perfectly without the receivers that they had when they were great in college.   We don't know this really,   but the QB is key part, and you do want to make sure that it works right,   especially the QBs who don't run.   

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong, it's fairly conventional wisdom,  I'd over time spend more on oline than WR,  but I'd have running QBs at WR spots that I got on day 3 or udfa, or picked them off of other teams, etc., I would know where to find value.  Having interchangeable running QB parts,  especially not needing custom WRs for specific QBs, would make things cheaper, leaving more money for oliners.    I'm not sure about the exact valuation of WR vs OL vs LT.  The Browns are paying 2 WRs $16 Million each.  The Browns had the top OL, and most were getting paid well, but none of the oliners were gettng $16 Million.    The entire cost of the OL was more than just OBJ and Landry, but OBJ and Landry were each more expensive.  

The Dolphins did spend last year on OL.  They have a pick at 18 they could use on that if that's what they wanted.  And 2 picks in the 2nd.  The Dolphins are said to need WRs.   The Bengals do seem to be more set at WR.  But, then,  WR becomes even a greater strength, and you have the custom part that is known to work.  Chemistry is what it's sometimes called.  
 

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1 hour ago, QBhunter58 said:

Im sorry are you really saying the BOTH teams with young (hopefully franchise) QBs are going to completely ignore an elite talent (Sewell) at a position of greater importance (OT). A player which will ensure that their Qb takes less hits over the next 5+ years. I just cant agree... maybe one of these teams pairs their QB with some guy they knew in college, but it is insane to assume that both will take this route. What about areas of need (I can think of 2-3 areas the Bengals need before considering receiver)? What about BPA? What about trading back? 

I just dont think it is as automatic as you make it out to be

The walleyhorse of on the field innovation

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If we draft a QB in April, I have a feeling we still add a vet QB that can be signed on a minimal deal.  If the QB is drafted high, then likely he is your presumed starter and Hurts is the backup.  If he is drafted round 2 or later, then a competition ensues between he and Hurts for the starting gig.  If a late round pick, then that guy is likely #3 and the vet your backup.   

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On 2/27/2021 at 6:41 AM, Bwestbrook36 said:

Thanks for replying to him, now we have to scroll through an 8 paragraph post for the 100th time about running QBs 

I dozed off around the 4th paragraph, to be honest. Not saying it's a bad post, I just.... dozed off. :sleep:

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20 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

I dozed off around the 4th paragraph, to be honest. Not saying it's a bad post, I just.... dozed off. :sleep:

Lol, I start reading them then I realize that not one word was absorbed so I give up 

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On 2/27/2021 at 7:01 AM, Random Reglar said:

Yeah, but it wasn't about running QBs at all, It was 2021 draft talk and a brief mention of who the backup QBs might be, with the focus on Chargers and Colts QBs because Siri and Shane.  Some reference, but not much, was made to the fact that Hurts is a running QB, which is obvious, and the need or desirability of having a running QB backup in order to preserve the run plays if no Hurts.

But mostly predictions about the first few picks and how those picks just make sense.

1) Lawrence - Jaguars
2) Fields - Jets
3) Smith - Dolphins
4) ? trade down - Falcons
5) Chase - Bengals
6) PItts - Eagles

18) Dolphins - Mac Jones / Weddle

2nd round Eagles w/ trade up - Toney
3rd round Eagles w/ trade up - Trask

Bwahahahaha...listen, I LOVE Pitts. More than most on this board. But if the Bengals are stupid enough to pass on a generational OT for a WR then we better SPRINT to the podium with a card saying Sewell on it in capital letters and glitter. You get Sewell then you trade Lane and go youth at OT. 

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25 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Bwahahahaha...listen, I LOVE Pitts. More than most on this board. But if the Bengals are stupid enough to pass on a generational OT for a WR then we better SPRINT to the podium with a card saying Sewell on it in capital letters and glitter. You get Sewell then you trade Lane and go youth at OT. 

Don't forget to put some scent on it as well

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6 hours ago, time2rock said:

If we draft a QB in April, I have a feeling we still add a vet QB that can be signed on a minimal deal.  If the QB is drafted high, then likely he is your presumed starter and Hurts is the backup.  If he is drafted round 2 or later, then a competition ensues between he and Hurts for the starting gig.  If a late round pick, then that guy is likely #3 and the vet your backup.   

I think our perfect QB room for 2021 is:

Jalen Hurts

Tyrod Taylor

Trask/Mond/Ehlinger/Buechele

5 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Don't forget to put some scent on it as well

Sex Panther. 

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25 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Bwahahahaha...listen, I LOVE Pitts. More than most on this board. But if the Bengals are stupid enough to pass on a generational OT for a WR then we better SPRINT to the podium with a card saying Sewell on it in capital letters and glitter. You get Sewell then you trade Lane and go youth at OT. 

Maybe.   I'm looking at it from the position that Pitts would be a legit choice at 6 and he worked with Brian Johnson and the Eagles are likely to lose Ertz.
 

I also see that the Eagles do have Lane at RT,  and at LT they have Dillard who was a 1st round pick in 2019 as well as Mailata.

I'm not saying that Sewell is bad, or that LT is not important,  or that TE is very important, or anything like that.

I would say that Brian Johnson should have a better idea about how good Pitts is, and that nobody on the Eagles probably has a really great idea how good Sewell is. 

I'd also think that a trade down might be a good idea for the Eagles.  The Eagles should be doing what they can to avoid Wilson, and they might be able to get someone like Pitts or Parsons or Paye after trading down, letting some other team take a QB with a questionable resume.

It does seem that if Fields was available at 6, then maybe,  especially if that 4.48 40 at 228 pounds turns out to be true for him.  I expect that number will be wrong, and Fields won't be as fast and big as that.  And Fields will probably be gone.

Pitts,  but Sewell would be acceptable,  also trade down.   Maybe ask Hurts if he thinks that Waddle or Smith would really help him,  if he has some sort of special chemistry with either of them. 

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19 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I think our perfect QB room for 2021 is:

Jalen Hurts

Tyrod Taylor

Trask/Mond/Ehlinger/Buechele

Sex Panther. 

Agreed, although I'm not investing the 37th pick in Trask or any other QB for that matter. Too many other needs. I'd look to draft a developmental guy somewhere on day three.

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53 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Bwahahahaha...listen, I LOVE Pitts. More than most on this board. But if the Bengals are stupid enough to pass on a generational OT for a WR then we better SPRINT to the podium with a card saying Sewell on it in capital letters and glitter. You get Sewell then you trade Lane and go youth at OT. 

I agree with you again. If I was in charge I would be planning to add a dynamic playmaker for the offense at 6, and then putting a heavy focus on the defense and OL throughout the rest of the draft. That being said, if Sewell somehow makes it to 6 you take him and don't even give it a second thought. He is the second best prospect in this draft in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, T-1000 said:

Agreed, although I'm not investing the 37th pick in Trask or any other QB for that matter. Too many other needs. I'd look to draft a developmental guy somewhere on day three.

Yeah that would strictly be if Trask somehow fell to 84. Other than that it’s a day 3 developmental guy like Newman, Ehlinger, Mond, etc. 

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1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Yeah that would strictly be if Trask somehow fell to 84. Other than that it’s a day 3 developmental guy like Newman, Ehlinger, Mond, etc. 

Definitely, Trask at 84 would be a tremendous value pick.

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6 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Definitely, Trask at 84 would be a tremendous value pick.

At 37 or 70 I want more impact. My ideal draft is a small trade down with Carolina getting 8 and 40 in exchange for 6 and going:

R1- Kyle Pitts TE Florida

R2a- Tyson Campbell CB Georgia

R2b- Terrace Marshall WR LSU

R3a- Jabril Cox LB LSU

R3b- Andre Cisco S Syracuse 

 

After that they can do whatever the F they want. Lol. That gives us two impact playmakers with size, 2 valuable secondary pieces and a potential stud at LB. After that I’d like to see IOL, another corner, a developmental QB, and an Edge guy on day 3. 

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25 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

At 37 or 70 I want more impact. My ideal draft is a small trade down with Carolina getting 8 and 40 in exchange for 6 and going:

R1- Kyle Pitts TE Florida

R2a- Tyson Campbell CB Georgia

R2b- Terrace Marshall WR LSU

R3a- Jabril Cox LB LSU

R3b- Andre Cisco S Syracuse 

I love that bud. I have to say I'm not down with taking a QB before the latter rounds. Unless it is a guy at #6 that they absolutely love. 

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7 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I love that bud. I have to say I'm not down with taking a QB before the latter rounds. Unless it is a guy at #6 that they absolutely love. 

Trask with their Colts 3rd rounder I would consider. Other than that, agreed, give me a round 5-6 guy. 

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26 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Trask with their Colts 3rd rounder I would consider. Other than that, agreed, give me a round 5-6 guy. 

Yeah fair enough. To me he either needs to be THE GUY or he needs to be a late round developmental guy. But yeah with that extra 3rd round pick I'd consider using it on a QB if a guy with tremendous upside were there. 

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