November 6, 20214 yr 34 minutes ago, TEW said: Not worth it. Vaccinated group has zero myocarditis deaths per million, unvaccinated group had 10 Covid deaths per million. Small numbers to be sure, but non-zero.
November 6, 20214 yr Just now, JohnSnowsHair said: Vaccinated group has zero myocarditis deaths per million, unvaccinated group had 10 Covid deaths per million. Small numbers to be sure, but non-zero. It’s the unknowns that are the problem IMO. Not enough benefit for the unknown risks to do this in scale.
November 6, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, lynched1 said: Its making a comeback sweetheart Polio is making a comeback?
November 6, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Polio is making a comeback? Save that one. I will say that unlike this current treatment they insist on calling a "vaccine" the polio vaccine worked like one as previously defined.
November 6, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, lynched1 said: Save that one. I will say that unlike this current treatment they insist on calling a "vaccine" the polio vaccine worked like one as previously defined. Polio was not immediately eradicated, and the first vaccines were effective at reducing polio but not 100%. I don't even think they were as effective as the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are; they're definitely not as effective as the Covid vaccines are against the original variant. And Sabin's had a relatively high incidence of vaccine-induced polio. Polio also took decades to be eradicated. It's been less than one year with Covid vaccines. By any objective measure the Covid vaccines are well ahead of the Polio vaccines in terms of timeline. But Covid numbers are HUGE by comparison, because Covid is orders of magnitude more prevalent.
November 6, 20214 yr 26 minutes ago, TEW said: It’s the unknowns that are the problem IMO. Not enough benefit for the unknown risks to do this in scale. There’s actually very little unknown about the vaccine at this point. We’re well into the administration of the vaccine in all sorts of ages groups and risk categories. The question is do you believe that the very small chance of a reaction that’s unlikely to kill you outweighs the risk of getting Covid and potentially dying. As has been pointed out a repeatedly here, there’s literally nobody dying from the vaccine. There have been 750,000 people who have died from Covid though. It’s a no brainer. But you have to have a brain to comprehend that I guess. The question shouldn’t be what if I get the vaccine and Have a bad reaction, it should be what if get the vaccine and I don’t? there IS a way out of this mess.
November 6, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Polio was not immediately eradicated, and the first vaccines were effective at reducing polio but not 100%. I don't even think they were as effective as the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are; they're definitely not as effective as the Covid vaccines are against the original variant. And Sabin's had a relatively high incidence of vaccine-induced polio. Polio also took decades to be eradicated. It's been less than one year with Covid vaccines. By any objective measure the Covid vaccines are well ahead of the Polio vaccines in terms of timeline. But Covid numbers are HUGE by comparison, because Covid is orders of magnitude more prevalent. Im fully aware. My grandfather survived that. Well ahead or not they are not a vaccine and dont act as such. Treated or not the "kung flu" can be contracted and spread regardless. Whats available is a treatment. Not a vaccine.
November 6, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Polio was not immediately eradicated, and the first vaccines were effective at reducing polio but not 100%. I don't even think they were as effective as the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are; they're definitely not as effective as the Covid vaccines are against the original variant. And Sabin's had a relatively high incidence of vaccine-induced polio. Polio also took decades to be eradicated. It's been less than one year with Covid vaccines. By any objective measure the Covid vaccines are well ahead of the Polio vaccines in terms of timeline. But Covid numbers are HUGE by comparison, because Covid is orders of magnitude more prevalent. And polio isn’t completely eradicated. There are at any time there could be 50-100 cases in the world. If we stopped global immunization for polio, in less than 10 years we would see 200,000 cases annually. in the last 2 decades we have prevented 18 million cases of paralysis. That’s why we continue to immunize for it. It would be devastating if we stopped. And we have dummies out there saying wE hAvEnT hAD PoLiO FoR 50 YeArs as a rationalization to be anti vax. https://www.cdc.gov/polio/why-it-matters/index.htm
November 6, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, lynched1 said: Im fully aware. My grandfather survived that. Well ahead or not they are not a vaccine and dont act as such. Treated or not the "kung flu" can be contracted and spread regardless. Whats available is a treatment. Not a vaccine. Obviously You don’t understand what the term vaccine is or what it does. Go back to page 1 of this thread and re read everything we’ve been trying to explain to you idiots for 2 years.
November 6, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, DBW said: There’s actually very little unknown about the vaccine at this point. We’re well into the administration of the vaccine in all sorts of ages groups and risk categories. The question is do you believe that the very small chance of a reaction that’s unlikely to kill you outweighs the risk of getting Covid and potentially dying. As has been pointed out a repeatedly here, there’s literally nobody dying from the vaccine. There have been 750,000 people who have died from Covid though. It’s a no brainer. But you have to have a brain to comprehend that I guess. The question shouldn’t be what if I get the vaccine and Have a bad reaction, it should be what if get the vaccine and I don’t? there IS a way out of this mess. No, we are not "well into the administration” of this vaccine to 5 year olds. Yes, there are most definitely a very small number of cases of people dying from the vaccine. Saying there are literally zero is just factually incorrect, but to be frank that’s not my worry because the short term positives of the vaccine outweigh the short term negatives, it has so far been restricted to adults, and it was always designed as a temporary solution. As for child vaccinations, it is an opportunity cost. Do the 10 per million ICU preventions and 1 per million death preventions outweigh the unknown risks? I say no. There is not enough benefit by the FDA’s numbers for the risk of something going wrong. Not enough upside to warrant unknown downside.
November 6, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, DBW said: There’s actually very little unknown about the vaccine at this point. We’re well into the administration of the vaccine in all sorts of ages groups and risk categories. The question is do you believe that the very small chance of a reaction that’s unlikely to kill you outweighs the risk of getting Covid and potentially dying. As has been pointed out a repeatedly here, there’s literally nobody dying from the vaccine. There have been 750,000 people who have died from Covid though. It’s a no brainer. But you have to have a brain to comprehend that I guess. The question shouldn’t be what if I get the vaccine and Have a bad reaction, it should be what if get the vaccine and I don’t? there IS a way out of this mess. The survival rate was well over 99% before intervention if we we're going with odds. Yes there is very little known. Pro or con no one knows anything of long term effects other than the treatment doesnt appear to provide long term benefits. The only certainty is that you are told there are 750,000 related deaths. Nothing on the criteria of what is considered a related death.
November 6, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, DBW said: Obviously You don’t understand what the term vaccine is or what it does. Go back to page 1 of this thread and re read everything we’ve been trying to explain to you idiots for 2 years. Use whatever term you feel necessary to make you feel better about yourself. Im thankful you're there and willing to be experimented on. That in itself allows me to make far better educated decision than the one you've made. Thanks for that. 👍
November 6, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, Toty said: so are you EagleVAG, er... Aren't you the witty one? Go sit down lab rat.
November 6, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Toty said: no wait! procus! you're procus! kz, maybe? You're going to hurt yourself. 😒
November 6, 20214 yr 21 minutes ago, TEW said: No, we are not "well into the administration” of this vaccine to 5 year olds. Yes, there are most definitely a very small number of cases of people dying from the vaccine. Saying there are literally zero is just factually incorrect, but to be frank that’s not my worry because the short term positives of the vaccine outweigh the short term negatives, it has so far been restricted to adults, and it was always designed as a temporary solution. As for child vaccinations, it is an opportunity cost. Do the 10 per million ICU preventions and 1 per million death preventions outweigh the unknown risks? I say no. There is not enough benefit by the FDA’s numbers for the risk of something going wrong. Not enough upside to warrant unknown downside. It's been approved for 12 and up for months now, dumb ass. You're also full of ish that it was "designed as a temporary solution." The primary endpoint for the initial trial was symptomatic disease for which they were found to have efficacy of 94%. But sure, keep ignoring the far greater risks from the long-term unknown side effects of infection. Among the documented ones we already know like pulmonary fibrosis, shrinkage of brain tissue, cognitive decline, etc. As for that slide, if you watched the VRBPAC meeting, you'd know they conceded it was a super conservative estimate of myocarditis incidence rates because they used surrogate data for the older age group (teens) which we already know is more at risk. The link to full mtg is on the FDA's site, I encourage anyone to watch it if you want the full picture. Same for the ACIP mtg. There's a reason why it was a unanimous vote by both committees. But even if your still don't believe me, or the committee members, watch how the data stacks up over the next 6-12 months and you'll see exactly how conservative the estimates from that slide was.
November 6, 20214 yr 47 minutes ago, TEW said: No, we are not "well into the administration” of this vaccine to 5 year olds. Yes, there are most definitely a very small number of cases of people dying from the vaccine. Saying there are literally zero is just factually incorrect, but to be frank that’s not my worry because the short term positives of the vaccine outweigh the short term negatives, it has so far been restricted to adults, and it was always designed as a temporary solution. As for child vaccinations, it is an opportunity cost. Do the 10 per million ICU preventions and 1 per million death preventions outweigh the unknown risks? I say no. There is not enough benefit by the FDA’s numbers for the risk of something going wrong. Not enough upside to warrant unknown downside. Ok sorry, less than 7000 vaccine related deaths out of 428 million worldwide vaccinations. So like .000016% so not zero but a lot less are dying from vaccines than from Covid. Again it’s a no brainer.
November 6, 20214 yr 54 minutes ago, lynched1 said: The survival rate was well over 99% before intervention if we we're going with odds. Yes there is very little known. Pro or con no one knows anything of long term effects other than the treatment doesnt appear to provide long term benefits. The only certainty is that you are told there are 750,000 related deaths. Nothing on the criteria of what is considered a related death. Covid is far more deadly. FAR more. It's not even close.
November 6, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: The survival rate was well over 99% before intervention if we we're going with odds. Yes there is very little known. Pro or con no one knows anything of long term effects other than the treatment doesnt appear to provide long term benefits. The only certainty is that you are told there are 750,000 related deaths. Nothing on the criteria of what is considered a related death. So out of the 231,500,130 closed cases (those cases ending in either death or recovery), 5,059,061 people have died. That puts the The survival rate right at 98% - which may not sound that different than 99% as you claim it is but are incorrect in the facts, but equates to approximately 231,000 deaths. I guess we’re just splitting hairs here though. Let’s not get vaccinated and I’m sure that death numbers number won’t climb at all.
November 6, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, DBW said: So out of the 231,500,130 closed cases (those cases ending in either death or recovery), 5,059,061 people have died. That puts the The survival rate right at 98% - which may not sound that different than 99% as you claim it is but are incorrect in the facts, but equates to approximately 231,000 deaths. I guess we’re just splitting hairs here though. Let’s not get vaccinated and I’m sure that death numbers number won’t climb at all. Where are you getting the numbers? Is the 231M closed cases based off of positive tests?
November 6, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Where are you getting the numbers? Is the 231M closed cases based off of positive tests? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ the way I understand it is the 231m closed cases are positive cases that had an outcome.
November 6, 20214 yr 44 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Covid is far more deadly. FAR more. It's not even close. Been there, done that. Far more deadly than what?
November 6, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, DBW said: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ the way I understand it is the 231m closed cases are positive cases that had an outcome. Ok so then if you want to estimate survival rate you’re going to need another cases number. There are tons of cases that were never registered due to people not getting tested.
November 6, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Ok so then if you want to estimate survival rate you’re going to need another cases number. There are tons of cases that were never registered due to people not getting tested. That would mean pure speculation which we can’t do. I’m working with the facts here. Not the right wing made up 99.9999997% survival rate. And the "my cousins college roommates sister had it 3 years ago and she didn’t die” data.
November 6, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, DBW said: So out of the 231,500,130 closed cases (those cases ending in either death or recovery), 5,059,061 people have died. That puts the The survival rate right at 98% - which may not sound that different than 99% as you claim it is but are incorrect in the facts, but equates to approximately 231,000 deaths. I guess we’re just splitting hairs here though. Let’s not get vaccinated and I’m sure that death numbers number won’t climb at all. We do disagree on things. You're not "vaccinated". You can be infected. At best they've potentially reduced your symptoms. Potentially to the extent you can transmit before displaying symptoms. Something you have in common with untreated people. You've been treated.
November 6, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, DBW said: That would mean pure speculation which we can’t do. I’m working with the facts here. Not the right wing made up 99.9999997% survival rate. And the "my cousins college roommates sister had it 3 years ago and she didn’t die” data. Sure, but your 98% is a number we know is incorrect and the real number is higher. Quite a bit higher.
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