8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Ok so then if you want to estimate survival rate you’re going to need another cases number. There are tons of cases that were never registered due to people not getting tested. 

A conversation around work last year involved people wondering if they in fact had contracted the kung flu and never even knew it. 

I only lost my sense of taste and never had a fever. I could have gone to work and no one would have known. I found the 10 paid days off appealing.

26 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Sure, but your 98% is a number we know is incorrect and the real number is higher. Quite a bit higher. 

It’s not incorrect in the sense we are talking about confirmed cases and thus the only official survival rate has to be based off the facts and the proven data which is what I showed you.  
 

we can sit here for 1000 more pages and speculate all we want about how many unreported cases there are…that won’t change the facts that we know.  All that does is serve the "it’s just the flu” narrative.  
 

to put it another way, and I’ve asked my own tin foil hat family members this very same question….if I put 100 of your family and friends in a room and flooded it with Covid you’d be almost guaranteed to lose at least one relative, if not two or three…..even if we only tested half of them, and didn’t bother to test the rest because they don’t believe in the science anyway.   Are you ok with that?  Or should we just say it’s no big deal because 99 of them survived?  Which friend or relative are you OK with unnecessarily losing?  

14 minutes ago, DBW said:

It’s not incorrect in the sense we are talking about confirmed cases and thus the only official survival rate has to be based off the facts and the proven data which is what I showed you.  
 

we can sit here for 1000 more pages and speculate all we want about how many unreported cases there are…that won’t change the facts that we know.  All that does is serve the "it’s just the flu” narrative.  
 

to put it another way, and I’ve asked my own tin foil hat family members this very same question….if I put 100 of your family and friends in a room and flooded it with Covid you’d be almost guaranteed to lose at least one relative, if not two or three…..even if we only tested half of them, and didn’t bother to test the rest because they don’t believe in the science anyway.   Are you ok with that?  Or should we just say it’s no big deal because 99 of them survived?  Which friend or relative are you OK with unnecessarily losing?  

If I can pick them?  I have several useless POS family members...   

 

 

 

 

 

 

j/k

 

 

1 hour ago, DBW said:

Ok sorry, less than 7000 vaccine related deaths out of 428 million worldwide vaccinations.  So like .000016%  so not zero but a lot less are dying from vaccines than from Covid.  Again it’s a no brainer.  

I agree that vaccinating adults is a no brainer. But children, it’s very much a risk not worth the reward IMO.

34 minutes ago, DBW said:

Which friend or relative are you OK with unnecessarily losing?  

Necessarily you'll lose everyone. The best odds treated or not is that they will meet that fate by other means.

 

Here’s the definition the CDC used on 26 August 2021:

Vaccine– "a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.”
Vaccination– "the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.”

 

Rather than admit the Covid vaccine is not working as advertised

Here is the new definition:

Vaccine– "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

 

A clip of an article by Jim Hoft:

Genetically-altered mouse models, a biotechnology pioneered by The Jackson Laboratory and now widespread in China’s military research centers, was a technique critical to the creation of COVID-19.

Pre-adaptation for human infection can be achieved in the laboratory by repeatedly exposing bat coronaviruses to genetically-engineered mice that express the human angiotensin converting enzyme 2 receptor (ACE2), a process known as serial passage.

According to Tao Wang, General Manager of Jiangsu Jicui Yaokang Biotechnology Co., Ltd. in Nanjing, U.S. scientists Ralph Baric of the University of North Carolina and Stanley Perlman of the University of Iowa donated their ACE2 genetically-engineered mice to China.

Although the Baric and Perlman mouse models adequately express the human lung ACE2 receptors, they did not fully express human ACE2 receptors found in brain, heart, kidney, and the gastrointestinal system.

Chinese scientists built upon the Baric and Perlman mouse models creating a genetically-engineered mouse that fully expressed the human ACE2 receptors, thus simulating the human infection to a greater extent.

It is important to note that Xiang Gao is a founding member of Jiangsu Jicui Yaokang Biotechnology Co., Ltd., which has been partially funded by the Chinese Communist Party.

Jiangsu Jicui Yaokang Biotechnology Co., Ltd. has also received funding from the U.S. investment firms Morgan Stanley and Hillhouse Capital Group, the latter founded with seed money from the Yale University Foundation.

GemPharmatech U.S. will house more than 6000 mouse models in Massachusetts and California, directly competing with The Jackson Laboratory and other U.S. companies.

In April 2021, GemPharmatech signed an agreement with the University of California Davis, which also has its own controversial links to Chinese Communist Party scientists.

The principal investigator of the University of California at Davis’ PREDICT program, funded with $200 million from the U.S. Agency for International Development, was the "bat woman” Zheng-Li Shi of the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

IT'S BEING DONE TO YOU

 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

 

The Fing irony. 😂😂😂

4 hours ago, TEW said:

I agree that vaccinating adults is a no brainer. But children, it’s very much a risk not worth the reward IMO.

There’s no more risk that we know of to young kids than adults. There is only right wing poosies making up any reason not to get a vaccine because they’re scared of a wittle tiny needle.
 

Go hop in your lifted Dodge Ram, slap on some lynryrd skynyrd, get ya skoal dip on and go get the family vaxxed. 

4 hours ago, lynched1 said:

Necessarily you'll lose everyone. The best odds treated or not is that they will meet that fate by other means.

might as well go to thanksgiving dinner and pull that trigger yourself then. 

4 minutes ago, DBW said:

 

might as well go to thanksgiving dinner and pull that trigger yourself then. 

Why waste bullets when all he needs to do is take them on a car ride early one weekday morning?

19 minutes ago, DBW said:

There’s no more risk that we know of to young kids than adults. There is only right wing poosies making up any reason not to get a vaccine because they’re scared of a wittle tiny needle.
 

Go hop in your lifted Dodge Ram, slap on some lynryrd skynyrd, get ya skoal dip on and go get the family vaxxed. 

Yeah, that’s the risk. And it’s why I would proceed with caution since the known benefits are so small. We’re talking about saving 1 or 2 lives per million in exchange for an unknown.

That’s not a risk I’d take on a large scale with children. I’d roll it out in small numbers and as we gather more data and more certainty on the long term effects you can be more aggressive.

24 minutes ago, TEW said:

Yeah, that’s the risk. And it’s why I would proceed with caution since the known benefits are so small. We’re talking about saving 1 or 2 lives per million in exchange for an unknown.

That’s not a risk I’d take on a large scale with children. I’d roll it out in small numbers and as we gather more data and more certainty on the long term effects you can be more aggressive.

Funny people were saying the same thing about giving adults the vaccine. It was experimental, it would kill us all, it would cause our hearts to explode, we would be magnetic.   All that nonsense has been proven wrong over and over and over again.  There’s no reason to think the 5-11 year olds will have some unfathomable reaction like suddenly growing facial hair or something.  You’re just moving you goal posts on why you’re so afraid to get vaccinated.  But I bet you wouldn’t hesitate to take the horse paste.  

1 hour ago, DBW said:

There’s no more risk that we know of to young kids than adults. There is only right wing poosies making up any reason not to get a vaccine because they’re scared of a wittle tiny needle.
 

Go hop in your lifted Dodge Ram, slap on some lynryrd skynyrd, get ya skoal dip on and go get the family vaxxed. 

might as well go to thanksgiving dinner and pull that trigger yourself then. 

You're responses are childish. 

I will do this Thanksgiving as I've done every previous Thanksgiving.

I literally dont give a F what you think about it.

As an observation I've known and know quite a few rednecks or hillbillies or whatever term you prefer to make you believe in your own mental superiority. 

If the **** hits the fan they will out survive the likes of you based on what they know.

10 minutes ago, DBW said:

Funny people were saying the same thing about giving adults the vaccine. It was experimental, it would kill us all, it would cause our hearts to explode, we would be magnetic.   All that nonsense has been proven wrong over and over and over again.  There’s no reason to think the 5-11 year olds will have some unfathomable reaction like suddenly growing facial hair or something.  You’re just moving you goal posts on why you’re so afraid to get vaccinated.  But I bet you wouldn’t hesitate to take the horse paste.  

WTF are you talking about?

I’m in favor of adults getting the vaccine. I’m vaccinated myself. Stop projecting your own biases on me. I was taking COVID seriously when hardly anyone was talking about it and when most of the people who act like experts in this thread were mocking me for taking it seriously.

The simple fact is we don’t know the long term effects of either the vaccine or COVID. We know COVID is highly contagious and that it can be deadly because of its novelty. For that reason the vaccine is important because it lowers symptoms and prevents hospitals from being overrun. So you vaccinate adults to prevent catastrophic failure of our healthcare system.

But messing with child development is something I would not risk, even given a low likelihood of a bad outcome, because the benefits don’t justify the risk. We just don’t gain much from vaccinating children according to the FDA’s own data.

7 minutes ago, TEW said:

WTF are you talking about?

I’m in favor of adults getting the vaccine. I’m vaccinated myself. Stop projecting your own biases on me. I was taking COVID seriously when hardly anyone was talking about it and when most of the people who act like experts in this thread were mocking me for taking it seriously.

The simple fact is we don’t know the long term effects of either the vaccine or COVID. We know COVID is highly contagious and that it can be deadly because of its novelty. For that reason the vaccine is important because it lowers symptoms and prevents hospitals from being overrun. So you vaccinate adults to prevent catastrophic failure of our healthcare system.

But messing with child development is something I would not risk, even given a low likelihood of a bad outcome, because the benefits don’t justify the risk. We just don’t gain much from vaccinating children according to the FDA’s own data.

Sorry in my rant I made a generalized "you” statement directed at the people who keep making up every excuse to not get vaxxed.  Not intended directly at you specifically. But again I don’t see any reason to expect something different in the 5-11 age group than the 12-18.  And I do think the benefits are worthy enough of getting them vaccinated.  As has been pointed out, catching Covid even could cause long lasting effects that we may not even be fully aware of yet.  We know Covid causes cognitive degeneration in adults, brain shrinkage, etc.  If there brain damage among adults, I would think that those harmful effects would be even worse on a developing brain.  But we know the vaccine doesn’t cause those dangerous and long lasting effects.  I argue that everything we know about the virus vs what we may not know about the vaccine heavily favors getting vaccinated.  

27 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

You're responses are childish. 

I will do this Thanksgiving as I've done every previous Thanksgiving.

I literally dont give a F what you think about it.

As an observation I've known and know quite a few rednecks or hillbillies or whatever term you prefer to make you believe in your own mental superiority. 

If the **** hits the fan they will out survive the likes of you based on what they know.

I guess you’re in charge of bringing the horse paste potatos? 

17 minutes ago, TEW said:

WTF are you talking about?

I’m in favor of adults getting the vaccine. I’m vaccinated myself. Stop projecting your own biases on me. I was taking COVID seriously when hardly anyone was talking about it and when most of the people who act like experts in this thread were mocking me for taking it seriously.

The simple fact is we don’t know the long term effects of either the vaccine or COVID. We know COVID is highly contagious and that it can be deadly because of its novelty. For that reason the vaccine is important because it lowers symptoms and prevents hospitals from being overrun. So you vaccinate adults to prevent catastrophic failure of our healthcare system.

But messing with child development is something I would not risk, even given a low likelihood of a bad outcome, because the benefits don’t justify the risk. We just don’t gain much from vaccinating children according to the FDA’s own data.

There is a risk you are missing. Leaving kids unvaccinated leaves an ample number of hosts and carriers for the virus. This likely will lead to further mutations and variants. Those variants may defeat the current vaccines for adults, or perhaps make the disease more dangerous for kids. 

42 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

You're responses are childish. 

I will do this Thanksgiving as I've done every previous Thanksgiving.

I literally dont give a F what you think about it.

As an observation I've known and know quite a few rednecks or hillbillies or whatever term you prefer to make you believe in your own mental superiority. 

If the **** hits the fan they will out survive the likes of you based on what they know.

Yes you do. You just wrote an essay. 

37 minutes ago, DBW said:

I guess you’re in charge of bringing the horse paste potatos? 

You're a caricature.

10 hours ago, DBW said:

It’s not incorrect in the sense we are talking about confirmed cases and thus the only official survival rate has to be based off the facts and the proven data which is what I showed you.  

I thought you were discussing the survival rate?  I'd think you would want the very best estimate and not a known to be incorrect number.

 

10 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

we can sit here for 1000 more pages and speculate all we want about how many unreported cases there are…that won’t change the facts that we know.  All that does is serve the "it’s just the flu” narrative.

Sure or we could try to come up with an estimate and not just use a number that we all know is incorrect.  You mention the flu.  The CDC has both the reported flu stats and the estimates which they say are "likely" numbers.  If you want to conduct a discussion about just about anything you take the very best estimates every single time.  Observed data is used as a base of course and is quite important but it doesn't tell the entire story.

 

10 hours ago, DBW said:

to put it another way, and I’ve asked my own tin foil hat family members this very same question….if I put 100 of your family and friends in a room and flooded it with Covid you’d be almost guaranteed to lose at least one relative, if not two or three…..even if we only tested half of them, and didn’t bother to test the rest because they don’t believe in the science anyway.   Are you ok with that?  Or should we just say it’s no big deal because 99 of them survived?  Which friend or relative are you OK with unnecessarily losing?  

...and just like TEW, I need to ask what the hell your talking about.  I got vaxxed the first day it was available to me and 100% pro vaccine.  I'm also ok with crafting the public message to ensure the highest vaccination rate possible.  Being intellectually honest with the numbers is important because it is so easy to poke holes in the narrative if the numbers are built on partials.

19 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

In the US politics is a factor

You have your head firmly up your ass. The implication that the unanimous decisions from both the FDA and CDC advisory panels was politically motivated is laughable. These committees don't change based on whoever is in the White House or Congress. These are the same committee members that voted to restrict boosters to only 65+ or those at occupational risk, rather than open it up to all those 18+ like Israel did. The FDA lead on those discussions was Peter Marks, the guy credited with architecting OWS under Trump's FDA.  Their panel even has some who are borderline cultists like Cody Meissner who wrote an op-ed in the NYT that covid isn't much of a risk to kids and they don't need masks in schools, and even he voted in favor of authorizing vaccines for them.

There's a reason why those committees didn't have a single vote in opposition and it's because they are renown experts in their field and the data was abundantly clear on this, the benefits clearly outweigh the risks.

Beyond the epidemiological benefits that vikas pointed out, the clinical benefits couldn't be clearer. Yes severe disease and long-term complications from covid are rare, but they still happen orders of magnitude more frequently than adverse events related to vaccines. It's not politics,  it's data-based medicine. It's science. You can agree with TEW's science fiction hot takes all you want but here in reality, parents across this country should listen to their pediatricians, not what me, you, or anyone else on the internet says. And the consensus there is overwhelming. 

 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/vaccine-kids-paves-protection-long-haul-covid/story?id=80912690&cid=social_twitter_abcn

2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You have your head firmly up your ass. The implication that the unanimous decisions from both the FDA and CDC advisory panels was politically motivated is laughable.

You're a walking joke with YOUR head stuck firmly up your ass - permanently!

27 minutes ago, Procus said:

You're a walking joke with YOUR head stuck firmly up your ass - permanently!

Wicked comeback Slappy!

8 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

I thought you were discussing the survival rate?  I'd think you would want the very best estimate and not a known to be incorrect number.

 

Sure or we could try to come up with an estimate and not just use a number that we all know is incorrect.  You mention the flu.  The CDC has both the reported flu stats and the estimates which they say are "likely" numbers.  If you want to conduct a discussion about just about anything you take the very best estimates every single time.  Observed data is used as a base of course and is quite important but it doesn't tell the entire story.

 

...and just like TEW, I need to ask what the hell your talking about.  I got vaxxed the first day it was available to me and 100% pro vaccine.  I'm also ok with crafting the public message to ensure the highest vaccination rate possible.  Being intellectually honest with the numbers is important because it is so easy to poke holes in the narrative if the numbers are built on partials.

Ugh….nevermind.  Taking me too literally to further the discussion.