55 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

There are some exceptions. Vitamin D for example is harder to fully supplement in areas without a ton of sun (although the dosage given in pill form is usually laughably overkill). Folic acid in pregnant women. Iron for people prone to anemia (usually it's dietary, but some people are more sensitive to it than others). Some B vitamins if you have abnormal/crappy gut flora for whatever reason.

But in general yeah in general the obsession with vitamins is silly.  It's also a largely unregulated "medicine" so who knows what you're actually getting.

Minimal downside though so it's not something I usually harp on for patients too much. Only the ones who think a daily Flintstone gummy is going to balance out a daily Whopper. 

prenatal is one area where I know there is a big exception. 

33 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yea I recall being advised by our physicians to buy vitamins in only two cases. Prenatals for the wife when trying to get pregnant and throughout both pregnancies. And supplementing vitamin D for both kids during the first 6 months after birth. I have a slight iron deficiency so I asked about supplementing but I guess there's a situation where you can get too much iron in your blood and it accumulates in your organs.

yeah, my understanding is that it's more likely for someone to overdo vitamins which can cause worse issues when taking supplements. 

eat fruits, veggies, and proteins in sufficient but not excessive quantities and most people are fine.

I was exposed at work this week by a dope who knew his wife was sick and awaiting a test result. He is now positive. Before I got home from work, the wife packed up some things and is staying with a friend until I test positive or negative.

My oldest granddaughter just tested positive, and her dad is just getting over cancer treatments, so that sucks. Our friend's son, home for his mom's funeral, is flying back to Italy where he has been in school, has to pay $200 to be tested at the airport, because the test results from his test are not available yet. All the labs are backed up for some reason.

I hope to test negative tomorrow and have the wife come back home. We still haven't celebrated Christmas with the kids. This blows goats.

21 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I was exposed at work this week by a dope who knew his wife was sick and awaiting a test result. He is now positive. Before I got home from work, the wife packed up some things and is staying with a friend until I test positive or negative.

My oldest granddaughter just tested positive, and her dad is just getting over cancer treatments, so that sucks. Our friend's son, home for his mom's funeral, is flying back to Italy where he has been in school, has to pay $200 to be tested at the airport, because the test results from his test are not available yet. All the labs are backed up for some reason.

I hope to test negative tomorrow and have the wife come back home. We still haven't celebrated Christmas with the kids. This blows goats.

Best of luck with everything.

27 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I was exposed at work this week by a dope who knew his wife was sick and awaiting a test result. He is now positive. Before I got home from work, the wife packed up some things and is staying with a friend until I test positive or negative.

My oldest granddaughter just tested positive, and her dad is just getting over cancer treatments, so that sucks. Our friend's son, home for his mom's funeral, is flying back to Italy where he has been in school, has to pay $200 to be tested at the airport, because the test results from his test are not available yet. All the labs are backed up for some reason.

I hope to test negative tomorrow and have the wife come back home. We still haven't celebrated Christmas with the kids. This blows goats.

Yep, it's causing massive disruption every time we get exposed. This is why I get so frustrated with the self-absorbed idiots who have such a cavalier attitude about all this. 

Hang in there, Toast.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yea I recall being advised by our physicians to buy vitamins in only two cases. Prenatals for the wife when trying to get pregnant and throughout both pregnancies. And supplementing vitamin D for both kids during the first 6 months after birth. I have a slight iron deficiency so I asked about supplementing but I guess there's a situation where you can get too much iron in your blood and it accumulates in your organs.

It's relatively hard to overdose on most vitamins and minerals through oral supplementation. The absorption mechanisms get saturated pretty quickly.

It's possible sure with prolonged intake, but iron overload is mostly cause by a genetic condition or chronic blood transfusions.  It'll make you super constipated though. 

Fat soluble vitamins like A and D are probably the most common. D usually from supplements, A from I wanna say too much liver? Not super common but possible. I also think it's technically possible to do it with some B vitamins but I think it's harder to do. Had to learn all the hypervitaminosis/mineral overload syndromes in med school but not something I've ever seen outside of genetic conditions since then (hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease).

But for the most part John is right, healthy diet is and exercise is way more important/helpful.  

3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

As far as vitamins go, I've always understood (and been advised by doctors) that vitamin supplements are a waste of money. You're far better off eating a proper diet and getting your vitamins there. 

Just my $.02.

I’ve heard eating dirt is a good idea.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nearly-twice-military-members-died-suicide-coronavirus-since-pandemic-start

Nearly twice as many military members died from suicide July-Sept than from coronavirus since pandemic's start

163 service members committed suicide in Q3 2021

Why is the federal goverment doubted so? 

Multiplied by almost 30 times. 😒

2 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

I’ve heard eating dirt is a good idea.

If he wants vitamins he should check out Chewy. They have great deals on feed that’s packed with vitamins and minerals. It’s good for a healthy mane too. 

5 hours ago, Procus said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nearly-twice-military-members-died-suicide-coronavirus-since-pandemic-start

Nearly twice as many military members died from suicide July-Sept than from coronavirus since pandemic's start

163 service members committed suicide in Q3 2021

Very sad but clearly a distraction  tactic.  
Ya know what Fox News?  860m Americans died since Covid started so go eat a big fat Biden D! 

1 hour ago, DBW said:

Very sad but clearly a distraction  tactic.  
Ya know what Fox News?  860m Americans died since Covid started so go eat a big fat Biden D! 

You're going to have to pull it out of your arse first. 

Deltacron is coming.  Maybe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/08/cyprus-reportedly-discovers-a-covid-variant-that-combines-omicron-and-delta.html

2 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

Deltacron is coming.  Maybe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/08/cyprus-reportedly-discovers-a-covid-variant-that-combines-omicron-and-delta.html

Oh great... Just another variant to watch closely. 

18 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

there are actually substantial number of people being admitted who are testing positive for mild or asymptomatic cases. this was not the case even 3 mos ago. 

You sure about that? Do you have a link to something substantiating that claim? There have always been a large number of cases with mild or no symptoms. Maybe even more now but…

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

You sure about that? Do you have a link to something substantiating that claim? There have always been a large number of cases with mild or no symptoms. Maybe even more now but…

Among those submitted to hospitals? No, I don't believe that's true, though my "evidence" would be conversations with nurses (primarily one of the other parents at my kids bus stop, along with occasional discussions I've had with nurse friends who I see less frequent)

The implication Kz and others are eager to draw from this is that a huge number of Covid positives among patients in hospitals over the past year or two have been incidental positives from patients admitted and treated for something else but that also tested positive for "basically a mild cold" while there. This to support their narrative that COVID has been overblown by leftist politicians as some kind of power grab, and validates their decision not to vaccinate.

It's motivated reasoning plain and simple, without any acknowledgement that the more likely reason lies elsewhere. 

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

Among those submitted to hospitals? No, I don't believe that's true, though my "evidence" would be conversations with nurses (primarily one of the other parents at my kids bus stop, along with occasional discussions I've had with nurse friends who I see less frequent)

The implication Kz and others are eager to draw from this is that a huge number of Covid positives among patients in hospitals over the past year or two have been incidental positives from patients admitted and treated for something else but that also tested positive for "basically a mild cold" while there. This to support their narrative that COVID has been overblown by leftist politicians as some kind of power grab, and validates their decision not to vaccinate.

It's motivated reasoning plain and simple, without any acknowledgement that the more likely reason lies elsewhere. 

The interesting part isn't what Kz thinks.  The interesting part is that we've thought all along that the numbers reported were based on patients admitted "due to COVID" instead of "with COVID".  My bet is that if we could see the numbers we'd find that the majority of the patients in the earlier COVID waves were admitted "due to COVID" while there was still a significant but much smaller chunk that fit into the other set.  Had that been clear all along then there wouldn't be any value for the idiots like Kz to pick up on now with this topic just because the percentages have shifted.  Instead, it would actually be beneficial in helping authorities to calm nerves all around and allow the less restrictive approaches to continue to roll out without as much uncertainty given that we are dealing with a much milder variant.  As it stands it just makes it harder for people to believe in the govt.

10 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

The interesting part isn't what Kz thinks.  The interesting part is that we've thought all along that the numbers reported were based on patients admitted "due to COVID" instead of "with COVID".  My bet is that if we could see the numbers we'd find that the majority of the patients in the earlier COVID waves were admitted "due to COVID" while there was still a significant but much smaller chunk that fit into the other set.  Had that been clear all along then there wouldn't be any value for the idiots like Kz to pick up on now with this topic just because the percentages have shifted.  Instead, it would actually be beneficial in helping authorities to calm nerves all around and allow the less restrictive approaches to continue to roll out without as much uncertainty given that we are dealing with a much milder variant.  As it stands it just makes it harder for people to believe in the govt.

You're operating under the belief that they're at all intellectually honest. They would have just dismiss numbers that disagree with their preferred narrative as lies.

16 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

You're operating under the belief that they're at all intellectually honest. They would have just dismiss numbers that disagree with their preferred narrative as lies.

I'm talking generally and overall.  Not just "them" and at minimum there would be less of "them".

What has been "won" by not being upfront the entire time?  I've always felt the default position of being transparent would win out in the long term. There are of course always some exceptions but I would have had mitigating tactics when those isolated incidents of withholding info were necessary to use short term.

13 hours ago, VanHammersly said:

If he wants vitamins he should check out Chewy. They have great deals on feed that’s packed with vitamins and minerals. It’s good for a healthy mane too. 

I suggest you do nothing if you get sick.  How's that?  Treatment options are only for anti vaxxers, Republicans and non-whites.

2 minutes ago, Procus said:

I suggest you do nothing if you get sick.  How's that?  Treatment options are only for anti vaxxers, Republicans and non-whites.

Seabiscuit is extra surly this morning. 

37 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Among those submitted to hospitals? No, I don't believe that's true, though my "evidence" would be conversations with nurses (primarily one of the other parents at my kids bus stop, along with occasional discussions I've had with nurse friends who I see less frequent)

The implication Kz and others are eager to draw from this is that a huge number of Covid positives among patients in hospitals over the past year or two have been incidental positives from patients admitted and treated for something else but that also tested positive for "basically a mild cold" while there. This to support their narrative that COVID has been overblown by leftist politicians as some kind of power grab, and validates their decision not to vaccinate.

It's motivated reasoning plain and simple, without any acknowledgement that the more likely reason lies elsewhere. 

From where I'm sitting, it's been a combination.  No doubt there were a lot of people suffering with symptoms stemming from Covid infections that were hospitalized.  But there were also padded numbers making the situation seem much worse and unnecessarily instilling panic and fear among many - especially among CNN and MSNBC viewers.

I keep circling back to the lack of emphasis on treatment protocol if somebody is infected and sick.  The default response among many progressives is to ridicule suggestion of options for treatment.  In fact, it should be the opposite.  Emphasizing ways to reduce adverse symptoms, reactions, and even death after infection should be a priority and go hand and hand with prevention options.  It's becoming clear that the vaccines aren't as effective as they were touted to be and require multiple and frequent boosters.  The side effects of all of this may take years to discover - we don't know yet.

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Seabiscuit is extra surly this morning. 

3 minutes ago, Procus said:

From where I'm sitting, it's been a combination.  No doubt there were a lot of people suffering with symptoms stemming from Covid infections that were hospitalized.  But there were also padded numbers making the situation seem much worse and unnecessarily instilling panic and fear among many - especially among CNN and MSNBC viewers.

Nothing was "padded." The value of the metric was that there is a consistent collection process that wasn't burdensome on the ground, from which a reliable number could be produced over time to identify where more severe outbreaks were occuring. 

The number was very explicitly "those hospitalized that tested positive for Covid," it was never presented as "those admitted for Covid symptoms". 

There have been multiple analyses done over the last year that attempt to separate out more severe cases from incidental cases. But because hospitals didn't really standardize on that data collection (because they were busy, you know, fighting a pandemic) those are more isolated. Not to mention how they changed with each variant.

These are all valid questions to ask to be sure. The better data we can collect the better we can make policy decisions around it. 

I just am not going to get into it with someone who has an agenda about it. An agenda that seeks to reframe a virus that has killed 800k+ Americans as "a mild cold," or to discredit vaccinations that correlate with far lower risk of hospitalization and death.

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

The number was very explicitly "those hospitalized that tested positive for Covid," it was never presented as "those admitted for Covid symptoms". 

It may not have been specifically stated "not necessarily due to COVID" but the general implication/perception was that the huge load of admitted patients during the COVID waves were in the hospital "due to COVID".