26 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Risk of persistent and new clinical sequelae among adults aged 65 years and older during the post-acute phase of SARS-CoV-2 infection: retrospective cohort study

Among individuals who were diagnosed with SARS-CoV-2, 32% (27,698 of 87,337) sought medical attention in the post-acute period for one or more new or persistent clinical sequelae, which was 11% higher than the 2020 comparison group. Respiratory failure (risk difference 7.55, 95% confidence interval 7.18 to 8.01), fatigue (5.66, 5.03 to 6.27), hypertension (4.43, 2.27 to 6.37), memory difficulties (2.63, 2.23 to 3.13), kidney injury (2.59, 2.03 to 3.12), mental health diagnoses (2.50, 2.04 to 3.04), hypercoagulability 1.47 (1.2 to 1.73), and cardiac rhythm disorders (2.19, 1.76 to 2.57) had the greatest risk differences compared with the 2020 comparison group, with similar findings to the 2019 comparison group. 

 

 

"BuT tHeY'Re OnLy EsTiMaTeS. DURRRRRRRRR."

14 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Wow. Ainsley Woods, which was basically the part of Jarrell Farms further away from Limestone Road. I lived on Jarrell Farms Drive from age 9 until I graduated. 

 

14 hours ago, xzmattzx said:

I know the area well.  I grew up in Heritage Park.  My parents are off of Little Baltimore Road now.  I live off of Kirkwood Highway, near Milltown Road.  So I am on Limestone Road and North Star Road all the time.

Right up the street from you guys.

 

Stay the F off my lawn, freaks.

On 2/9/2022 at 2:51 PM, DrPhilly said:

Even MSNBC weighing in on the topic and giving space to the concept of weighing the cost/benefit of masks in schools and the price kids are paying.  About time.

 

It's a good discussion, but my contentions still remain on primarily two levels:

1. "Children experiencing alarming levels of anxiety, depression, eating disorders, and suspected suicide attempts." These are facts, but the connection of these issues to masking seems to be purely an assumption, and kind of a ridiculous one at that. These things were on the rise before the pandemic and were obviously accelerated by it, but that acceleration is likely due to a variety of stressors brought on by the pandemic and particularly the changes in the way that schools operate and how education is delivered. I would imagine that masks as a direct cause of increased prevalence of mental-health conditions is pretty far down the list.

 

2. Even if most students and teachers are vaccinated and unvaccinated students will likely not suffer drastically if they catch COVID, this still ignores the fact that schools are still having major staffing issues due to COVID, so the system is further strained by allowing the virus to spread and having teachers and staff cycling in and out of quarantine. In order to keep the classrooms, corridors, and cafeterias staffed at a level where buildings can be secure and instruction can remain consistent, we have to do what we can to keep staff from taking ill. Many schools have had to shut down or close temporarily simply because they don't have teachers or subs to manage classrooms.
 

3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

It's a good discussion, but my contentions still remain on primarily two levels:

1. "Children experiencing alarming levels of anxiety, depression, eating disorders, and suspected suicide attempts." These are facts, but the connection of these issues to masking seems to be purely an assumption, and kind of a ridiculous one at that. These things were on the rise before the pandemic and were obviously accelerated by it, but that acceleration is likely due to a variety of stressors brought on by the pandemic and particularly the changes in the way that schools operate and how education is delivered. I would imagine that masks as a direct cause of increased prevalence of mental-health conditions is pretty far down the list.

 

2. Even if most students and teachers are vaccinated and unvaccinated students will likely not suffer drastically if they catch COVID, this still ignores the fact that schools are still having major staffing issues due to COVID, so the system is further strained by allowing the virus to spread and having teachers and staff cycling in and out of quarantine. In order to keep the classrooms, corridors, and cafeterias staffed at a level where buildings can be secure and instruction can remain consistent, we have to do what we can to keep staff from taking ill. Many schools have had to shut down or close temporarily simply because they don't have teachers or subs to manage classrooms.
 

There has been a dramatic increase in school fights in our middle and high schools in the district and I’ve seen other districts reporting the same thing.  I do think that there is a definite correlation between mask wearing and mental health of kids. They’re fatigued and stressed by it all - just as we are with it - but they lack the coping skills so there’s more acting out and more behavior issues because of it.  There’s more teen drug and alcohol use (presumably a way of coping), more suicides, etc.  it’s not the mask itself that is causing this, it’s the stress of the last 2.5 years of a  pandemic. Kids are being put in no win situations as well, a pawn in the games being played between governors and school boards on how it should all be handled.  It’s quite sad and absolutely there are things going on that are direct result of Covid/mask/vaxx requirements and statuses.  We’ve done a lot of damage that may be unfixable.  And this is coming from a guy that was supportive of mask wearing for a long time, but knowing what we know now I have changed my opinion on that topic.  Short story is it’s not worth the risk of long term mental and emotional damage along with developmental delays in some cases.  And I’m hopeful that these mask mandates lifts will remain permanent and become choice for future outbreaks rather than back to mandates.  

 

I find myself agreeing with one sentence of yours and then disagreeing with the next. First of all:

 

20 minutes ago, DBW said:

I do think that there is a definite correlation between mask wearing and mental health of kids.

 

Correlation, maybe, but we should really be nailing down causation. I don't really understand a primarily causal mechanism here, but I'd like to see some data specifically related to the links between the two.

 

20 minutes ago, DBW said:

There has been a dramatic increase in school fights in our middle and high schools in the district and I’ve seen other districts reporting the same thing.  I do think that there is a definite correlation between mask wearing and mental health of kids. They’re fatigued and stressed by it all - just as we are with it - but they lack the coping skills so there’s more acting out and more behavior issues because of it.  There’s more teen drug and alcohol use (presumably a way of coping), more suicides, etc.  it’s not the mask itself that is causing this, it’s the stress of the last 2.5 years of a  pandemic.  

 

This is all true, and the bolded part is exactly what I've been saying. (Slight correction, though: The pandemic didn't really affect U.S. schools until March of 2020). Maybe the mask is one component of the overall situation, but I think it's pretty far down the list as far as a factor that is directly deleterious. Again, these issues were accelerating years before the pandemic, but the acceleration of them is definitely the result of an accumulation of stressors, with mask-wearing probably being one of the least significant. Virtual schooling, quarantines, being away from friends and family, and the general stress of living with a deadly virus in our midst seem to me like much, much more directly significant factors leading to the mental health issues described above. If you polled students on what's been most challenging about the pandemic, I don't think having to a wear a mask would be really high up the list. To keep things in context, though, I am mainly speaking from the perspective of secondary schools.

 

20 minutes ago, DBW said:

 Short story is it’s not worth the risk of long term mental and emotional damage along with developmental delays in some cases. 

 

I need to see some specific information related to masks causing emotional damage and developmental delays before I really consider them to be harmful to kids. Note, I have said before that I can see them causing instructional difficulties in very young children just learning how to communicate, but after the first few years of primary school, I don't think this would be a huge issue outside of special ed. scenarios.

I think regardless of our intuitions here, we need much more specific information relating to how the individual factors are contributing to specific challenges encountered in schools during the pandemic.

16 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I find myself agreeing with one sentence of yours and then disagreeing with the next. First of all:

 

 

Correlation, maybe, but we should really be nailing down causation. I don't really understand a primarily causal mechanism here, but I'd like to see some data specifically related to the links between the two.

 

 

This is all true, and the bolded part is exactly what I've been saying. (Slight correction, though: The pandemic didn't really affect U.S. schools until March of 2020). Maybe the mask is one component of the overall situation, but I think it's pretty far down the list as far as a factor that is directly deleterious. Again, these issues were accelerating years before the pandemic, but the acceleration of them is definitely the result of an accumulation of stressors, with mask-wearing probably being one of the least significant. Virtual schooling, quarantines, being away from friends and family, and the general stress of living with a deadly virus in our midst seem to me like much, much more directly significant factors leading to the mental health issues described above. If you polled students on what's been most challenging about the pandemic, I don't think having to a wear a mask would be really high up the list. To keep things in context, though, I am mainly speaking from the perspective of secondary schools.

 

 

I need to see some specific information related to masks causing emotional damage and developmental delays before I really consider them to be harmful to kids. Note, I have said before that I can see them causing instructional difficulties in very young children just learning how to communicate, but after the first few years of primary school, I don't think this would be a huge issue outside of special ed. scenarios.

I think regardless of our intuitions here, we need much more specific information relating to how the individual factors are contributing to specific challenges encountered in schools during the pandemic.

I'm curious, do you have kids in school wearing masks?

I think my favorite part of this is that ishlibs in here have to legitimately pretend that "The Science" on masking changed prompting dem politicians to abandon mask mandates like rats on a sinking ship rather than admit that it always has been purely political.

These are the same people that were saying DeSantis was trying to murder his constituents when he lifted mandates months and months ago.  

16 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I find myself agreeing with one sentence of yours and then disagreeing with the next. First of all:

 

 

Correlation, maybe, but we should really be nailing down causation. I don't really understand a primarily causal mechanism here, but I'd like to see some data specifically related to the links between the two.

 

 

This is all true, and the bolded part is exactly what I've been saying. (Slight correction, though: The pandemic didn't really affect U.S. schools until March of 2020). Maybe the mask is one component of the overall situation, but I think it's pretty far down the list as far as a factor that is directly deleterious. Again, these issues were accelerating years before the pandemic, but the acceleration of them is definitely the result of an accumulation of stressors, with mask-wearing probably being one of the least significant. Virtual schooling, quarantines, being away from friends and family, and the general stress of living with a deadly virus in our midst seem to me like much, much more directly significant factors leading to the mental health issues described above. If you polled students on what's been most challenging about the pandemic, I don't think having to a wear a mask would be really high up the list. To keep things in context, though, I am mainly speaking from the perspective of secondary schools.

 

 

I need to see some specific information related to masks causing emotional damage and developmental delays before I really consider them to be harmful to kids. Note, I have said before that I can see them causing instructional difficulties in very young children just learning how to communicate, but after the first few years of primary school, I don't think this would be a huge issue outside of special ed. scenarios.

I think regardless of our intuitions here, we need much more specific information relating to how the individual factors are contributing to specific challenges encountered in schools during the pandemic.

Data specific to masks causing these issues is available to some degree but deeper studies are needed.  I’ve talked with school admins and guidance counselors and my wife is a teacher so I’m discussing things daily.  My wife is very concerned trying to plant a seed for private schooling and I’ve been doing my homework to show her this is not isolated to public schools.  It’s happening everywhere. 

4 minutes ago, Parrot Head said:

I'm curious, do you have kids in school wearing masks?

 

I am an educator and my school district is still mandating masks.

Just now, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I am an educator and my school district is still mandating masks.

That wasn’t my question, but your answer tells me a lot.

2 minutes ago, Kz! said:

I think my favorite part of this is that ishlibs in here have to legitimately pretend that "The Science" on masking changed prompting dem politicians to abandon mask mandates like rats on a sinking ship rather than admit that it always has been purely political.

These are the same people that were saying DeSantis was trying to murder his constituents when he lifted mandates months and months ago.  

I wouldn’t necessarily say the science has changed in the literal sense but certainly our understanding of what masks are capable of, both good and bad, has grown.  But with you, nobody is ever allowed to change an opinion or stance on something.  Nobody is allowed to learn and adapt.  You take everything to the Extreme and every word as being written in stone.

1 minute ago, DBW said:

I wouldn’t necessarily say the science has changed in the literal sense but certainly our understanding of what masks are capable of, both good and bad, has grown.  But with you, nobody is ever allowed to change an opinion or stance on something.  Nobody is allowed to learn and adapt.  You take everything to the Extreme and every word as being written in stone.

Haha The Science™ hasn't changed our understanding has grown!  

5 minutes ago, Parrot Head said:

That wasn’t my question, but your answer tells me a lot.

 

And your attitude tells me a lot: "I'm a parent, so I know everything and my little susie/johnny is a delicate little flower who can't handle wearing a mask. Masks are tyranny!"

You were clearly asking if I had any perspective on the situation, so I provided it. The fact is that I've been in schools and interacting with kids throughout this whole ordeal. From what I've gathered, masking is not a top concern among middle and high-school students. For that matter, we're pretty much at the point where the kids that don't want to wear masks pretty much flout the rule anyway and there's little pushback from admin or most teachers. In reality, we've already reached the point where masking is adhered to in a largely voluntary manner. 

 

Republicans: End the mask mandate!

Democrats: End the mask mandate.

Republicans:  

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

 

 

Well, 12 months ago was right around the time the CDC dropped the masking guidance for vaccinated people, so...

2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

And your attitude tells me a lot: "I'm a parent, so I know everything and my little susie/johnny is a delicate little flower who can't handle wearing a mask. Masks are tyranny!"

You were clearly asking if I had any perspective on the situation, so I provided it. The fact is that I've been in schools and interacting with kids throughout this whole ordeal. From what I've gathered, masking is not a top concern among middle and high-school students. For that matter, we're pretty much at the point where the kids that don't want to wear masks pretty much flout the rule anyway and there's little pushback from admin or most teachers. In reality, we've already reached the point where masking is adhered to in a largely voluntary manner. 

There have been some great, heroic type of teachers during this pandemic…and there have been awful ones like you.

Your profession is becoming quite the disgrace.

4 minutes ago, Parrot Head said:

There have been some great, heroic type of teachers during this pandemic…and there have been awful ones like you.

 

That's funny. I usually get a lot of positive feedback from parents and students.

I'll play your self-righteous game, though. Same goes for the parents: Some have been great in helping us combat the pandemic and instilling the right attitude in their kids, and some have been awful and done nothing but encourage their kids to be disruptive and make the problem worse, like you.

Oh, and Jimmy Buffet still sucks.

4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Republicans: End the mask mandate!

Democrats: End the mask mandate.

Republicans:  

Wait.... Trumplicans are pro mask now?  

5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Republicans: End the mask mandate!

Democrats: End the mask mandate.

Republicans:  

Oh, I'm loving it, actually. We get to watch you retards do mental jumping jacks to pretend you were never all-in on masking in the first place. It's great entertainment.  

4 minutes ago, Parrot Head said:

There have been some great, heroic type of teachers during this pandemic…and there have been awful ones like you.

Your profession is becoming quite the disgrace.

cc @paco

Just now, Kz! said:

3 minutes ago, paco said:

Wait.... Trumplicans are pro mask now?  

Well a retarded ishlib said it so it must be true!  

3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

That's funny. I usually get a lot of positive feedback from parents and students.

I'll play your self-righteous game, though. Same goes for the parents, though. Some have been great in helping us combat the pandemic and instilling the right attitude in their kids, and some have been awful and done nothing but encourage their kids to be disruptive and make the problem worse, like you.

Oh, and Jimmy Buffet still sucks.

Nope, I’ve taught my kids to overcome anything, including scum bag liberal teachers.

Doesn’t mean you, and your type aren’t ish bags.

Just now, Parrot Head said:

Nope, I’ve taught my kids to overcome anything, including scum bag liberal teachers.

Doesn’t mean you, and your type aren’t ish bags.

He's not wrong, Jimmy Buffet does suck