10 hours ago, DBW said:

This is copied and pasted from FB: 

Now I see this image making the rounds to support the idea of everyone wearing face masks to prevent COVID-19. So let me point out some very obvious facts that people seem to be missing.

1. You can't grow a virus in a petri dish. Viruses require a live host. So absolutely nothing you see in these petri dishes is a virus. This is bacteria.

2. All of that bacteria soup you see on the left petri dishes is what humans have been breathing into the air since the dawn of time. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE IMMUNE SYSTEMS. It's also why we cover our mouths when we sneeze or cough. 

3. Bacteria are ginormous compared to viruses. If the average human body represents the size of an average human cell, then a football would represent the size of an average bacterium, but AN ASPIRIN would represent the size of an average virus.  Source: https://www.biointeractive.org/classroom-resources/relative-sizes-bacteria-and-viruses

And the most important point:

4. All of that stuff you see in those petri dishes on the left is what's now IN YOUR MASK. Your mask IS the petri dish, and all of that stuff is getting caught in, and is now growing in, the mask that you wear right up against your nose and mouth, and you're breathing that in. If it looks disgusting in a petri dish, why would you put it up against your mouth and nose?

So basically if you believe this guys "study” then the smaller more dangerous virus flows right through the mask anyway so it’s not doing a damn thing other than trapping your own bacteria for you to breath back in.

You're absolutely right that this doesn't qualify as a serious "study", however you're missing the point majorly.

Viruses are smaller than bacteria.  Neither however are just floating freely in the breeze, they both require respiratory droplets in order to spread which are many times larger than both. The bacteria on these plates are harmless respiratory flora, but they are being used as a proxy to demonstrate how these droplets are spread.

 Some viruses can be spread through very very tiny droplets that can aerosolize (eg measles, chickenpox) however most are spread through larger droplets that also spread infectious respiratory bacteria like pertussis (whooping cough). Based on most evidence we have currently, Coronavirus behaves more like a "droplet" respiratory disease than a "airborne", a distinction based on the whether the respiratory particles it can be carried by are small enough to spread long distances and remain in the air for a long period of time.  This means that its primary source of spread is through the respiratory droplets.  Can some sneak around the sides or through super small particles not caught by a cloth mask? Probably. But the majority of spread is going to be through those big droplets as illustrated by the bacteria growth in these pictures.

As far as rebreathing the stuff in the mask, again that's just respiratory flora.  If you've got some nasty breath yeah your mask will start to stink after awhile but it's not harmful.  Brush your teeth, wash your mask or get a new one every now and then.  NBD.

7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

You're absolutely right that this doesn't qualify as a serious "study", however you're missing the point majorly.

Viruses are smaller than bacteria.  Neither however are just floating freely in the breeze, they both require respiratory droplets in order to spread which are many times larger than both. The bacteria on these plates are harmless respiratory flora, but they are being used as a proxy to demonstrate how these droplets are spread.

 Some viruses can be spread through very very tiny droplets that can aerosolize (eg measles, chickenpox) however most are spread through larger droplets that also spread infectious respiratory bacteria like pertussis (whooping cough). Based on most evidence we have currently, Coronavirus behaves more like a "droplet" respiratory disease than a "airborne", a distinction based on the whether the respiratory particles it can be carried by are small enough to spread long distances and remain in the air for a long period of time.  This means that its primary source of spread is through the respiratory droplets.  Can some sneak around the sides or through super small particles not caught by a cloth mask? Probably. But the majority of spread is going to be through those big droplets as illustrated by the bacteria growth in these pictures.

As far as rebreathing the stuff in the mask, again that's just respiratory flora.  If you've got some nasty breath yeah your mask will start to stink after awhile but it's not harmful.  Brush your teeth, wash your mask or get a new one every now and then.  NBD.

No thank you, Big Brother!  Freedom!

1 hour ago, mr_hunt said:

all trump had to do was wear a f'n mask & encourage mask wearing when his experts started recommending them. that's all he had to do. 

I agree that probably would have helped with his base.  But I doubt it would have made people on the other side not wearing them, wear them.  Some of the radicals/influencers on both sides come almost full circle when it comes to conspiracy theories.  I’ve seen some of the most left leaning of my friends post the same exact conspiracy theories that some of the far right post about. 

39 minutes ago, Lloyd said:

Yeah. We're talking about bare minimum things. Trump chose not to wear a mask. Democrats said, "Uh okay. We'll wear masks and speak your failures on this issue."  And what, now we're calling that politicization? If a mayor decides he doesn't want firemen pouring water on a burning house, I'd expect there to be some criticism there. 

Of course.

But like I’ve said before, there’s a certain segment of the population that is buying into all these conspiracy theories.  I think over the past week or so it’s gotten much better...so let’s hope that trend continues. 

35 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I agree that probably would have helped with his base.  But I doubt it would have made people on the other side not wearing them, wear them.  Some of the radicals/influencers on both sides come almost full circle when it comes to conspiracy theories.  I’ve seen some of the most left leaning of my friends post the same exact conspiracy theories that some of the far right post about. 

Of course.

But like I’ve said before, there’s a certain segment of the population that is buying into all these conspiracy theories.  I think over the past week or so it’s gotten much better...so let’s hope that trend continues. 

idk. if he was on board w/ masks from day 1 & not contradicting the experts every step of the way, i'm thinking a lot more people would be wearing masks. 

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

I've quit facebook. It helps

Me too. I thought about signing back up a month ago then I was hearing some of the sheet people were saying and I was like nope don't need that

a friend is supposed to visit this weekend...and just posted a pic to her fb that she's at point pleasant beach today.   anybody know how crowded the nj beaches are?  don't want a person at corona beach today coming to my house in 2 days.    

Just now, mr_hunt said:

a friend is supposed to visit this weekend...and just posted a pic to her fb that she's at point pleasant beach today.   anybody know how crowded the nj beaches are?  don't want a person at corona beach today coming to my house in 2 days.    

Tell her to quarintine in her car for 14 days outside your house in her car

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

You're absolutely right that this doesn't qualify as a serious "study", however you're missing the point majorly.

Viruses are smaller than bacteria.  Neither however are just floating freely in the breeze, they both require respiratory droplets in order to spread which are many times larger than both. The bacteria on these plates are harmless respiratory flora, but they are being used as a proxy to demonstrate how these droplets are spread.

 Some viruses can be spread through very very tiny droplets that can aerosolize (eg measles, chickenpox) however most are spread through larger droplets that also spread infectious respiratory bacteria like pertussis (whooping cough). Based on most evidence we have currently, Coronavirus behaves more like a "droplet" respiratory disease than a "airborne", a distinction based on the whether the respiratory particles it can be carried by are small enough to spread long distances and remain in the air for a long period of time.  This means that its primary source of spread is through the respiratory droplets.  Can some sneak around the sides or through super small particles not caught by a cloth mask? Probably. But the majority of spread is going to be through those big droplets as illustrated by the bacteria growth in these pictures.

As far as rebreathing the stuff in the mask, again that's just respiratory flora.  If you've got some nasty breath yeah your mask will start to stink after awhile but it's not harmful.  Brush your teeth, wash your mask or get a new one every now and then.  NBD.

The cdc has said this week that the virus is more airborne than originally thought and can even remain circulating within HVAC systems, which is why I Suspect a lot of people in new york that were quarantined at home got sick - the air in common areas is recycled and shared hvac systems, etc.  if the virus is airborne like that, it’s small enough to get through any mask.  And most masks that people are wearing are the type where it even says on the box that it’s not useful for prevention of spreading or blocking coronavirus.  The other stupid thing is people wear the n95 masks that are designed to use in contaminated areas, meaning they do no filter what you’re breathing out. So if you’re sick, you’re just blowing the virus out of the spout anyway.  Same goes for those under armour style Training masks with the vent OUT, to make it easier to exhale. They completely fail at the point of preventing blowing virus into the air.  In fact they promote it.  
 

again I wear my mask to do my part but I do not believe they are really that effective.   

Florida broke the record for most deaths in a day. 120 compared to the previous record of 83. 
 

I guess all these new cases weren’t just asymptomatic and in young, healthy 20 year olds after all. Who woulda thought? 

2 hours ago, Gannan said:

I've quit facebook. It helps

I go on periodically to like whatever Schmoopie posted and call it a day 95% of the time

48 minutes ago, DBW said:

The cdc has said this week that the virus is more airborne than originally thought and can even remain circulating within HVAC systems, which is why I Suspect a lot of people in new york that were quarantined at home got sick - the air in common areas is recycled and shared hvac systems, etc.  if the virus is airborne like that, it’s small enough to get through any mask.  And most masks that people are wearing are the type where it even says on the box that it’s not useful for prevention of spreading or blocking coronavirus.  The other stupid thing is people wear the n95 masks that are designed to use in contaminated areas, meaning they do no filter what you’re breathing out. So if you’re sick, you’re just blowing the virus out of the spout anyway.  Same goes for those under armour style Training masks with the vent OUT, to make it easier to exhale. They completely fail at the point of preventing blowing virus into the air.  In fact they promote it.  
 

again I wear my mask to do my part but I do not believe they are really that effective.   

Being "more airborne than expected" does not mean that the majority is not still direct via larger droplets.  The same was true for MERS, which was another type of coronavirus. Neither are remotely as airborne as diseases like measles, but are likely more so than say the common cold and the flu.  Masks are less effective for those types of viruses but they still block the majority of the droplets from hitting you directly, which is still the most direct way for a respiratory virus to spread.

44 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Being "more airborne than expected" does not mean that the majority is not still direct via larger droplets.  The same was true for MERS, which was another type of coronavirus. Neither are remotely as airborne as diseases like measles, but are likely more so than say the common cold and the flu.  Masks are less effective for those types of viruses but they still block the majority of the droplets from hitting you directly, which is still the most direct way for a respiratory virus to spread.

Masks are better than no masks I agree.  But let’s not pretend like they are the end all be all of Virus protection.  I’m just saying they aren’t as bullet proof as they want you to believe.  

Just now, DBW said:

Masks are better than no masks I agree.  But let’s not pretend like they are the end all be all of Virus protection.  I’m just saying they aren’t as bullet proof as they want you to believe.  

i don't think anyone is pretending that. mask wearing helps. frequent hand washing helps. social distancing helps. 

9 minutes ago, DBW said:

Masks are better than no masks I agree.  But let’s not pretend like they are the end all be all of Virus protection.  I’m just saying they aren’t as bullet proof as they want you to believe.  

Who is claiming they are? It's all about minimizing the impact anyway we can. That was always the point.

4 minutes ago, DBW said:

Masks are better than no masks I agree.  But let’s not pretend like they are the end all be all of Virus protection.  I’m just saying they aren’t as bullet proof as they want you to believe.  

Meh, I don't really see many people seriously claiming they're bullet proof, including that that demonstration. But sure. What they are however are an easy, cheap, readily available and moderately effective preventative measure that if we all used correctly from the get-go without a doubt would have significantly reduced our national burden. 

16 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

i don't think anyone is pretending that. mask wearing helps. frequent hand washing helps. social distancing helps.

8 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Who is claiming they are? It's all about minimizing the impact anyway we can. That was always the point.

Let’s see - how many states are requiring masks in public now? Pretty much all of them, right?  So the govs and health depts and the cdc are pretending that’s the answer and giving people false sense of security in the process.  So to hunts point, they wear masks but fail to wash their hands and do the other obvious stuff because they feel the mask is somehow protecting them.  I’ve seen this behavior first hand.

1 minute ago, DEagle7 said:

Meh, I don't really see many people seriously claiming they're bullet proof, including that that demonstration. But sure. What they are however are an easy, cheap, readily available and moderately effective preventative measure that if we all used correctly from the get-go without a doubt would have significantly reduced our national burden. 

Again it depends on the mask type. How many people have you seen wearing the type with the valve that lets germs out? 
 

ive seen that so many times.  Even these:  

let germs escape.  
 

 

 

1 minute ago, DBW said:

Let’s see - how many states are requiring masks in public now? Pretty much all of them, right?  So the govs and health depts and the cdc are pretending that’s the answer and giving people false sense of security in the process.  So to hunts point, they wear masks but fail to wash their hands and do the other obvious stuff because they feel the mask is somehow protecting them.  I’ve seen this behavior first hand.

 

 

What? Just because that's your interpretation doesn't mean it's reality.

17 minutes ago, DBW said:

Let’s see - how many states are requiring masks in public now? Pretty much all of them, right?  So the govs and health depts and the cdc are pretending that’s the answer and giving people false sense of security in the process.  So to hunts point, they wear masks but fail to wash their hands and do the other obvious stuff because they feel the mask is somehow protecting them.  I’ve seen this behavior first hand.

Again it depends on the mask type. How many people have you seen wearing the type with the valve that lets germs out? 
 

ive seen that so many times.  Even these:  

let germs escape.  

None of those groups are "pretending" it's 100% effective or a replacement for other measures, what are you talking about? Hell even vaccines aren't 100% effective, but if everyone gets them guess what? The disease spread slows or stops. Requiring masks is 1) 100% the right decision and 2) absolutely not going to fully stop this thing. I haven't seen any government organisation pretend otherwise. If people don't understand that at this point that's on them.

32 minutes ago, NoDak Eagle said:

 

14 hours ago, DBW said:

Anybody else ready To lose a whole bunch of "friends” over all this crap?  I feel like most of my friends are so afraid and a bunch of Fing sheep.  Anything said that disproves a false Facebook post About mask effectiveness, or anything that isn’t buying into the fear mongering and they react like im the worst person in earth.  I need to stay off FB I guess. 😆 

 

I'm kind of surprised but also happy that I don't have those crazies on facebook

32 minutes ago, NoDak Eagle said:

 

I'm not surprised but if it's clear someone died of something else then it shouldn't be listed as COVID. If it's not clear than I could see them listing it as COVID

I think autopsy's are still being done. Only known one was Floyd

7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

None of those groups are "pretending" it's 100% effective or a replacement for other measures, what are you talking about? Hell even vaccines aren't 100% effective, but if everyone gets them guess what? The disease spread slows or stops. Requiring masks is 1) 100% the right decision and 2) absolutely not going to fully stop this thing. I haven't seen any government organisation pretend otherwise. If people don't understand that at this point that's on them.

I guess I’m just in the minority in thinking the masks aren’t nearly as effective as they say they are or wish them to be.  I’ll accept that I’m in the minority.  I’m not saying it’s not smart or doesn’t help at all (unless you’re wearing the type that blow germs into the air as I described above).  
 

im also very frustrated with the lack of any answers we have gotten.  The doctors don’t know much more about it than they did in February.  They have advanced some treatment methods but don’t have a legit answer and consistent treatment.  The vaccine trials may end up being an epic fail.  Fauci even said they may not be successful with them. But they’re trying all sorts of things to increase their odds.  Can you imagine if they don’t figure it out and have to start all over?  Meanwhile we suffer - health, mental and physical, society, economically.  It all continues to suffer.  It’s so damn frustrating. 

35 minutes ago, DBW said:

Let’s see - how many states are requiring masks in public now? Pretty much all of them, right?  So the govs and health depts and the cdc are pretending that’s the answer and giving people false sense of security in the process.  So to hunts point, they wear masks but fail to wash their hands and do the other obvious stuff because they feel the mask is somehow protecting them.  I’ve seen this behavior first hand.

Again it depends on the mask type. How many people have you seen wearing the type with the valve that lets germs out? 
 

 

 

I don't mean to pile on since like 3 other people are already engaged in this. But your point seems to be that masks can't guarantee safety to a 100% certainty, therefor you mistrust states making them a law or requirement.

But laws in general don't 100% guarantee anything, they serve as a tool to help a large portion of society.

Masks help to lower the odds spreading the virus. Bullet proof? Absolutely not. It's a piece of cloth. 

  

 

5 minutes ago, DBW said:

im also very frustrated with the lack of any answers we have gotten.  The doctors don’t know much more about it than they did in February. 

It is frustrating. But doctors have come a long way since February treating the disease. For instance, they now know anticoagulants can help. They're learning more every day. It is unlikely they will hit a homerun the first time at-bat with a vaccine, but give them a chance. It's still early in the game and it's going to take time. How long did it take to get a polio vaccine? Measles? They're moving really fast.

Keep wearing masks in public and limit contact with others to slow the spread. Nothing is foolproof but it's the best chance we got. All we can do is give them time.